If all the good go to heaven. what does psalm 37:29 mean?

[Darryl_B]

A non biased person would look at this and say…acording to darrel b
And truewitness…The bible contradicts itself. By saying people will be on earth forever
And also that they will be in heaven. By also saying the heavens and earth will burn up…and saying that the earth will be here forever.

The two of you are reading two separate things from the same book. Because the book is saying two separate things. Even if a catholic uses a church tradition…that wouldn’t change this apparent contradiction.

I know we don’t want there to be a contradiction…but if we are honest…it sure looks like it.

I don’t see contradiction at all. It is the presupposition about what the Kingdom of God constitutes that causes one to project current promises into future promises. The JW position is based on a feeling. This sure doesn’t feel like the Kingdom of God to me. I sure don’t feel Blessed in the Church. I sure don’t feel that Peace. That is all quite possibly their perception, but it is also the only argument to produce the eisegesis. It might work door to door, however it is just not my perception. The Kingdom has been around for 2000 years now. We have not experienced it’s completed fullness culmination, but that does not imply the Kingdom is not present. The NT says it is present tense over and over. The Church the Sacraments that simple. Not being part of that (and I was) does give one an eschatological focus rather than the peace and joy of the Kingdom.

Do the JWs believe that “immortals” and long lived “mortals” will be living simultaneously on this earth for 1000 years? If so by their reasoning that is not the Kingdom.

A JW seems to have three ages. An age of emptiness now, wait here. An age of the partial Kingdom literal 1000 years, then a post age of the Kingdom complete, I only have two. An age of the partial Kingdom now, the end of time complete.

 

[excaliber]

I dont believe there are any contradictions, just 2 different viewpoints which contradict each other but its not the Bible thats contradicting itself.

The verse which was quoted is 2 Peter 3:10 - “But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat, and the earth and the works which are in it, shall be burnt up.”

To be correct, the explanation of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the Bible.

We dont take that verse literal, if we read the whole context of that scripture we will understand it.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society.

Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the earth itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is destroyed.

In that there is no contradiction with this and the righteous possessing the earth If we hold on to that viewpoint. Im not sure how you view it…

Bro! You just said for something to be correct…it has to fit in with the whole bible.
Most JW teaching dosnt fit with the bible as a whole…which is why there was a need for JW to make their own bible.

JW have however found where the bible is broken.
It both implies that all will go to heaven…and it implies that the earth will be populated.

Well mabey people are called to both we may say…but it also says there is one faith one baptism…the 2 callings system JWs invinted isn’t in the bible.

This book seems to contradict itself.

I asked where the bible completely sides with the heaven or paradise earth teaching…knowone can give me those scriptures…probably because the book says both.
A mistake that big would bring into question if it’s from a divine source.

 

[excaliber]

I don’t see contradiction at all. It is the presupposition about what the Kingdom of God constitutes that causes one to project current promises into future promises. The JW position is based on a feeling. This sure doesn’t feel like the Kingdom of God to me. I sure don’t feel Blessed in the Church. I sure don’t feel that Peace. That is all quite possibly their perception, but it is also the only argument to produce the eisegesis. It might work door to door, however it is just not my perception. The Kingdom has been around for 2000 years now. We have not experienced it’s completed fullness culmination, but that does not imply the Kingdom is not present. The NT says it is present tense over and over. The Church the Sacraments that simple. Not being part of that (and I was) does give one an eschatological focus rather than the peace and joy of the Kingdom.

Do the JWs believe that “immortals” and long lived “mortals” will be living simultaneously on this earth for 1000 years? If so by their reasoning that is not the Kingdom.

A JW seems to have three ages. An age of emptiness now, wait here. An age of the partial Kingdom literal 1000 years, then a post age of the Kingdom complete, I only have two. An age of the partial Kingdom now, the end of time complete.

You said it’s based of a feeling? I don’t fully understand your point…psalm 37 thats in the title of the whole post…seems to be saying God will have a people live on earth forever.

Then other scriptures say people will live in heaven…

Which is it?

The book is saying both…im guessing thats an error.

 

[CatholicRaven]

You said it’s based of a feeling? I don’t fully understand your point…psalm 37 thats in the title of the whole post…seems to be saying God will have a people live on earth forever.

Then other scriptures say people will live in heaven…

Which is it?

The book is saying both…im guessing thats an error.

It can appear that way, but it’s not an error. The Bible doesn’t contradict itself. Interpretations do. You said it yourself: Psalms 37 “seems to be saying” one thing, while other verses say something else. (emphasis mine)

Remember, the Scriptures are not written in the same style all the way through, so we cannot just take one verse from one book of the Bible and compare it directly to a verse from another book written in a different style and expect conformity. Just like you can’t take a sentence from a Science textbook and compare it to a line of prose or poetry and expect them to sound like they agree–even if they use some of the same words and phrases! But, in context, they both may very well be true.

So, while at one time, I may say that this man cut a piece out of my heart, and another time I may say that that other man cut a piece out of my heart, they don’t necessarily mean the same thing. Yet they are not contradictory. Someone who knows me well enough to infer that I’m speaking about my husband in one instance, and my surgeon in another, would be able to tell you what I meant–they could correctly interpret my meaning. Someone who didn’t know me well enough may understandably be confused and think I’ve been through at least two very serious heart surgeries, or that I’m melodramatic about my romantic relationships.

Scripture can be difficult to understand (it even says so itself), partly because most of us generally don’t consider the time period (especially what phrases and figures of speech were used), the author’s style, or even the overall message of that “book,” and the overall message of the Bible itself. We usually don’t know the writer, or the One Who Inspired the writer, as well as we should.

The Church does. And the Church is truly given the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as promised. When we try to go by our own interpretation, even if the Holy Spirit is speaking to us, we can only hope that our pride and human nature aren’t getting in the way of hearing the correct message.

 

[Darryl_B]

You said it’s based of a feeling? I don’t fully understand your point…psalm 37 thats in the title of the whole post…seems to be saying God will have a people live on earth forever.

Then other scriptures say people will live in heaven…

Which is it?

The book is saying both…im guessing thats an error.

I have already said “forever” does not exist as a Hebrew or Greek word. Psalm 37 is generation after generation until the end of the age, allowed to live on this earth, without being cut off from it, generation to generation, receiving the blessings. Legacy was very important in those days. People actually cared about their children’s children’s children’s children and the continuation generation to generation by teaching them the commandments of God, and to worship Him alone. They viewed their own decisions affecting generations to come. Then the expectation is that the children carry on that which was taught by their fathers. This time now is where we develop our relationship with God.

You can see this in Ephesians 6:2. The fathers are the ones passing on the faith to their children and the responsibility of the children is to listen to their fathers and repeat the same process.

Honour thy father and thy mother, which is the first commandment with a promise:

This is from Exodus 20:12

Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.

This does not mean living til I am 120 nor does it mean simply to give verbal respect to your father and mother. It means take upon yourself, the knowledge and wisdom of your father and mother, and their faith, and that way your children and children’s children and children’s children’s children will live forever in the land.

I also agree with CatholicRaven

 

[Darryl_B]

The Church does. And the Church is truly given the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as promised. When we try to go by our own interpretation, even if the Holy Spirit is speaking to us, we can only hope that our pride and human nature aren’t getting in the way of hearing the correct message.

I agree with this because I went through all this. Own interpretation, pride and human nature, and when I came to a complete loss through entangled reasonings, I found myself more perplexed and more confused, I had nowhere to turn, and when my quandary became too great, I googled something I never had before and never thought I would “Catholic”.

 

[jlhargus]

…psalm 37 thats in the title of the whole post…seems to be saying God will have a people live on earth forever. Then other scriptures say people will live in heaven… Which is it? The book is saying both…im guessing thats an error.

1173

The following is my two cents worth.

[Eph1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might **gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:]

[Acts3:20 And **he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.]

[Col1:15 Who is **the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.]

[Col1:20 And, **having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.]

[Hb11:13 **These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.]

[Mt8:11 And I say unto you, That **many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.]

[2Pt3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which **the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.]

Continued:

 

[jlhargus]

[Is66:22 **For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.]

It is the same earth, same heaven (universe). Just as our resurrected bodies will be the same body, transformed into glorified immortal heavenly bodies. The new earth and new heaven (universe) will be transformed into a glorified heavenly body. Then.the New Heavenly Jerusalem will come down upon the new heavenly paradise earth and universe remaining forever.

[Rms8:21 Because **the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.]

[Rv21:1 And **I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.] See CCC 1042-1050.

[Rv21:21 And **the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.]

[Rv22:1 And **he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.]

[Jer3:17 **At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.]

Continuned

 

[jlhargus]

[Jn10:16 And **other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd].

The Gentiles are the other sheep who are not of the Jewish fold, the commonwealth of Israel. The Gentiles are the other sheep, who were strangers from the covenants, without God. Christ will bring the Gentiles into the one fold. One fold not two folds, one earthly and the other heavenly.

[Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us**; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.]

[Ps37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever

God’s throne will be on earth and his people will see His face. Heaven and earth are united as one, see Rv21:1-23 and Rv22:1-4.

The Lord’s prayer says it very well, thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That prayer will be answered when heavenly Jerusalem comes down to the earth after the resurrection and the regeneration of all creation as scripture tells us. Heaven and earth will be united with God dwelling with His people. [Rv22:1-2 … 3 And there shall be no more curse: but **the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.]

[2Pt3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 1 3 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.]

All creation will be regenerated and cleansed just as those who are baptized are cleansed and sanctified, regenerated by water and of the Spirit Titus3:5. When the old earth and universe are dissolved and purified by fire. The saved will go to the same Heavenly Jerusalem were purified souls, who’s body is in the grave, go before Christ returns.

After the earth and universe have been purified by fire, regenerated. Transformed into a glorified body as our resurrected bodies, putting on immortality, then Heavenly Jerusalem will come down from heaven uniting heaven and earth. All the saved will dwell on paradise earth with God, seeing him face to face. (beatific vision)

[Hb12:22 But **ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.] The spirits of just men in Heavenly Jerusalem waiting for the resurrection of their bodies.

End

 

[jlhargus]

[Jn14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, **I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also].

[1Thes416 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air :** and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.:]

 

[worldcitizen]

There are many definitions of heaven. Couldn’t one definition be to accept the Lord?

Didn’t one of the thief’s on the cross recognise and believe in Jesus just before he died and Jesus said he would be in heaven with him?

Heaven is nearness to God and hell is disobedience and being far from God??

Isn’t religion like a heaven with its stars and moon it’s laws and teachings?

Cannot heaven also be a spiritual state such as bliss ir contentment. A person being lifted to heaven may mean his spiritual condition attained to a very high state or he attained a heavenly happiness.

I often feel like I am in heaven even though my body dwells here.

If we think out of the box heaven could mean and refer to hundreds of things not just the traditional view. Gid is far more intelligent and His Book is capable of much deeper meanings than just literal definitions.