"If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture"

[Church_Militant]

I took that to mean that if anyone–whether Paul, the Church of Rome or an Angel, were to preach a gospel different than the original–then we are warned not to heed that “gospel” and that such people are accursed.

Where do you see anywhere in that IP any reference to Galatians 1:8 Miguel? The rest of your post is off topic, so try to stay with it, okay?

 

[shaky]

Okay…please take careful note of what this non-Catholic said.

Now…the doctrine of Sola Scriptura says that the Bible is the sole and ultimate authority for all Christian belief and practice, right?

So…then, any n-C who believes this doctrine should be able to supply the specific Bible references where this is taught in the Bible, right?

Have any of you reading this thread seen these passages because I have read the Bible many times and have yet to find them.

If that is correct, then doesn’t the person who made the statement above now have to either produce these references, or else abandon their adherence to said teachers/preachers because they are teaching something that is not in and contradicts the scriptures?

Please, n-Cs show us these scriptures, and feel free to use a Catholic Bible if you’d like, since it will give you 7 more books to work with.

I believe you have only two options.

1. 
   *]Provide specific scriptural support, or
   *]Abandon the doctrine and those who preach and teach it.

1. 
   Paul who was led by the holy spirit taught things that contradicted Old Testament Scripture.
   He contradicted Circumcision, about food not to abstain from. About Sabbaths. etc

 

[Miguel_Sastre]

Where do you see anywhere in that IP any reference to Galatians 1:8 Miguel?

Here:

However, if anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in, or is against what scripture says, I will hold to scripture over the teacher.

You pointed out what this person said and went immediately to sola scriptura. I detected an allusion to Galatians.

The rest of your post is off topic,

How so? If the topic concerns how we know what the content of revelation is, then certainly it makes sense to compare our modern claims against the test Paul proposes: namely the original proclamation. And here is where the topic comes in: I say that the only way to know what Paul preached is to read what Paul wrote–and that is related to the topic of sola scriptura. How could it be otherwise?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Here:

You pointed out what this person said and went immediately to sola scriptura. I detected an allusion to Galatians.

How so? If the topic concerns how we know what the content of revelation is, then certainly it makes sense to compare our modern claims against the test Paul proposes: namely the original proclamation. And here is where the topic comes in: I say that the only way to know what Paul preached is to read what Paul wrote–and that is related to the topic of sola scriptura. How could it be otherwise?

Well, how do you know what the original Gospel is? According to Paul’s instructions to Timothy, you need a lot more than just Scripture (post 35). Paul notes that faith is something that one must have in addition to Scripture in order to be equipped for every good work. So if that faith doesn’t come from just reading Scripture, where DOES it come from? From the instruction of the elders of the Church, i.e., Sacred Tradition.

And sure enough, if you have people just reading Scripture and trying to get the “original Gospel” from it, they wind up with the wrong gospel because Scripture needs an authoritative interpreter.
[BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 3:14-18[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Church_Militant]

Here:

You pointed out what this person said and went immediately to sola scriptura. I detected an allusion to Galatians.

No Miguel, You presumed an allusion. Your bad…

How so? If the topic concerns how we know what the content of revelation is, then certainly it makes sense to compare our modern claims against the test Paul proposes: namely the original proclamation. And here is where the topic comes in: I say that the only way to know what Paul preached is to read what Paul wrote–and that is related to the topic of sola scriptura. How could it be otherwise?

Not at all the point. You cannot supply scripture that specifically lays claim to a final and ultimate authority because it’s not there. That’s the point. Many n-Cs want to say everything Christians believe and practice has to be found in the Bible, yet the Bible nowhere says that.

 

[raisedacatholic]

Actually Galatians 1 is a great example. Speaking of “another” Gospel. From one of the false teachers Paul says from the DR bible, " 6I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another Gospel. 7Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [or cursed]
9As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

So, it would be safe to say how Paul who had an experience with God and got specific instructions on what and what not to say, is saying is from the throne room. If it is outside the Gospel of Christ and what Paul said MANY times about false teachers and doctrines, it’s out of bounds for those who are Christians.

 

[Farsight001]

Actually Galatians 1 is a great example. Speaking of “another” Gospel. From one of the false teachers Paul says from the DR bible, " 6I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another Gospel. 7Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [or cursed]
9As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

So, it would be safe to say how Paul who had an experience with God and got specific instructions on what and what not to say, is saying is from the throne room. If it is outside the Gospel of Christ and what Paul said MANY times about false teachers and doctrines, it’s out of bounds for those who are Christians.

You are changing the words of scripture here. Paul speaks of “another gospel”, as in, one different and contradictory to the gospel of Christ. YOU, instead, use the word “outside”, which simply means not part of, and in no way necessitates contradiction. That is a blatant change to the meaning of scripture. The idea that that which is “outside” scripture is forbidden is contrary to scripture. (and a necessarily hypocritical idea too, since computers, electricity, etc,. are “outside” scripture)

 

[Cat_Herder]

Actually Galatians 1 is a great example. Speaking of “another” Gospel.

Yes, whoever has the false gospel is anathema. So who has the false gospel?

 

[raisedacatholic]

The problem here is that Paul, Peter, and the rest of the NT writers have one thing in common. They have all spoken of false teachers of various kinds. Who are the false teachers and what is their message? They can be defined as anyone or group that would alter what the directions the scripture say to add or subtract from or to it. The Jewdizers were a great example. They wanted to add feasts and rituals. This caused a stir so Paul took it to the heads of the Church in Jerusalem. Their response was in Acts 15. Just read 1 & 2 Peter he is really adamant about these false teaching.
So, here is the question. Jesus told Nickodemis unless UR born again U cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. John 3. No BA ++++. Just BA.
John said in his Gospel 1: 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. DR Bible. [Just believe, no +++++]

Romans 10: 9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we b believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded. DR Bible.
Again no add on’s or rituals.

How about Ephesians 2 where it says it is not by works one gets saved. 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,)
6 And hath raised us up together, and hath made us sit together in the heavenly places, through Christ Jesus. 7 That he might shew in the ages to come the abundant riches of his grace, in his bounty towards us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. BR Bible.

It’s all by grace [God’s unmerited favor] NOT by works.

SO ANY denomination that makes salvation or getting to heaven by any kind of works is a false religion. ALL denominations have added certain add on’s. Just like the Jewish law.
So if your religion has any add on’s aside from God’s way it is false and as Paul said U would be cursed.

 

[Farsight001]

The problem here is that Paul, Peter, and the rest of the NT writers have one thing in common. They have all spoken of false teachers of various kinds. Who are the false teachers and what is their message? They can be defined as anyone or group that would alter what the directions the scripture say to add or subtract from or to it. The Jewdizers were a great example. They wanted to add feasts and rituals. This caused a stir so Paul took it to the heads of the Church in Jerusalem. Their response was in Acts 15. Just read 1 & 2 Peter he is really adamant about these false teaching.
So, here is the question. Jesus told Nickodemis unless UR born again U cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. John 3. No BA ++++. Just BA.
John said in his Gospel 1: 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. DR Bible. [Just believe, no +++++]

Romans 10: 9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we b believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded. DR Bible.
Again no add on’s or rituals.

How about Ephesians 2 where it says it is not by works one gets saved. 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,)
6 And hath raised us up together, and hath made us sit together in the heavenly places, through Christ Jesus. 7 That he might shew in the ages to come the abundant riches of his grace, in his bounty towards us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. BR Bible.

It’s all by grace [God’s unmerited favor] NOT by works.

SO ANY denomination that makes salvation or getting to heaven by any kind of works is a false religion. ALL denominations have added certain add on’s. Just like the Jewish law.
So if your religion has any add on’s aside from God’s way it is false and as Paul said U would be cursed.

I have to ask - what was the point of this entire post? You pointed out that it was by grace we are saved. Duh. Catholics believe this. I think this has been said in this thread multiple times before. Also, nothing about these verses says that one would be cursed and their religion false for “add on’s”, as you put it.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Romans 10: 9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved…

It’s all by grace [God’s unmerited favor]

Do you not see the contradiction here?

Your interpretation of Scripture is that people must DO SOMETHING in order to be saved, namely “confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead.” That is NOT salvation by grace (God’s unmerited favor) because you have that grace being MERITED by a WORK, namely “confess[ing] with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believ[ing] in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead.”

So what about babies? Miscarriages? The mentally retarded? The mute, who cannot make that confession? Do they all go to hell because they cannot “confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus”?

No.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

Of course that means you are in error, my friend.

 

[Church_Militant]

SO ANY denomination that makes salvation or getting to heaven by any kind of works is a false religion.

Really? You haven’t read Matthew 25:31-46 then have you? You’ll need to take that up with Our Lord Himself, since He’s the one who makes it very very plain in His teaching. Whose then do you follow?

ALL denominations have added certain add on’s. Just like the Jewish law.

Yeah, I’d say so…like Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, OSAS/Eternal Security of the Believer, and many more depending upon who you talk to.

So if your religion has any add on’s aside from God’s way it is false and as Paul said U would be cursed.

I have a blog article that speaks to that very passage in Galatians 1. Might be worth your while to read it if you have the courage of your convictions. It’s called Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? .

 

[InDefense]

However, if anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in, or is against what scripture says, I will hold to scripture over the teacher.

Spot on ! I would do exactly the same !

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ? If the teacher is wrong, so will you be ! And how will you know that the teacher is wrong ? Scripture !

 

[Church_Militant]

Spot on ! I would do exactly the same !

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ? If the teacher is wrong, so will you be ! And how will you know that the teacher is wrong ? Scripture !

Fine…please show me where you find scripture claiming to be the final and ultimate authority for all you believe and practice. Shoe me the actual place(s) in the Bible where it specifically says this. Feel free to use a Catholic Bible since it has 7 more books if it will help, okay?

 

[InDefense]

Fine…please show me where you find scripture claiming to be the final and ultimate authority for all you believe and practice. Shoe me the actual place(s) in the Bible where it specifically says this. Feel free to use a Catholic Bible since it has 7 more books if it will help, okay?

Show me in scripture where it states that scripture must be interpreted by the church

 

[Cat_Herder]

Spot on ! I would do exactly the same !

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ? If the teacher is wrong, so will you be ! And how will you know that the teacher is wrong ? Scripture !

That sounds good to the ear but completely fails in practice. As a result of such zealous attempts to declare individuals as the infallible interpreters of Scripture, there have been well over 38,000 church splits, over eight million casualties in wars started by Protestants against Catholics, and more than 41.6 million dead babies on account of Protestantism’s embrace of abortion.

Of course, this is all because individual people thought they could interpret Scripture better than the Catholic Church. Had there been no Reformation, those wars and splits wouldn’t have happened, and abortion would never have been embraced by the popular culture.

So, do you really think that Jesus approves of all of that carnage? Do you think the Holy Spirit endorsed all of those divisions and wars, or endorsed the destruction of so many of His temples?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:16[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 24:24[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Cat_Herder]

**“To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.” **
John Henry Cardinal Newman, convert from Anglicanism

Spot on ! I would do exactly the same !

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ? If the teacher is wrong, so will you be ! And how will you know that the teacher is wrong ? Scripture !

Spot on ! I would do exactly the same !

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ? If the teacher is wrong, so will you be ! And how will you know that the teacher is wrong ? Scripture !

That sounds good to the ear but completely fails in practice. As a result of such zealous attempts to declare individuals as the infallible interpreters of Scripture, there have been well over 38,000 church splits, over eight million casualties in wars started by Protestants against Catholics, and more than 41.6 million dead babies on account of Protestantism’s embrace of abortion.

Of course, this is all because individual people thought they could interpret Scripture better than the Catholic Church. Had there been no Reformation, those wars and splits wouldn’t have happened, and abortion would never have been embraced by the popular culture.

So, do you really think that Jesus approves of all of that carnage? Do you think the Holy Spirit endorsed all of those divisions and wars, or endorsed the destruction of so many of His temples?

Why do you think the Bible stands alone as the sole authority, anyway? Because of this?
[BIBLEDRB]2 Timothy 3:16-17[/BIBLEDRB]

So, are abortion, divorce, wars, and church schisms what the Bible means by “every good work?” Of course not, which is part of the reason why Paul said to Timothy that other things were needed to be equipped for every good work besides the Bible.

Moreover, this whole attitude of

Why rely on teachers to tell the truth, over scripture ?

is itself unscriptural. It presupposes that only the smart people who read their Bibles to “get the truth for themselves” are the ones that God wills to have knowledge of the truth. That is not what the Bible says.
[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

If it is truly the will of God for EVERYONE to come to knowledge of the truth, then why is it that so few people agree with this whole “let’s get rid of the teachers and just study the Bible for ourselves” approach? Didn’t Jesus Himself appoint TEACHERS, namely the Apostles, to be the spiritual fathers of all Christians?
[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 4:15[/BIBLEDRB]

Why did the Ethiopian eunuch need one of these Apostles to teach him the Scriptures?
[BIBLEDRB]Acts 8:26-36[/BIBLEDRB]

Why then do you believe that there are no longer any apostles or elders and everyone has to rely on only the Bible to find out the truth? Do you think that God doesn’t want children who can’t understand the BIble for themselves to have the truth?
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:16[/BIBLEDRB]

And if you believe in marriage, you believe that when you get married, you know that you need to have an elder there to witness your marriage before God. You acknowledge that unless you “go through” the marriage ritual, with an elder present, your relations with your spouse would be sinful fornication and that it is only because you were married according to the law of God that the sin of fornication was taken away. In other words, you acknowledge that there are elders, that there are Sacraments, that marriage is a Sacrament and thus that God has established an eldership, a presbyterate, a priesthood–and that they alone have the power to administer the Sacraments.

 

[Church_Militant]

So…no one can provide these scriptures that support this idea? Really?

Then why do you hold to such a belief when it contradicts the very belief itself by not having a foundation in the Bible?

Why do you oppose what the Bible actually does teach which is that the Church is the authority for both interpretation and practice?

Does this not display the error of Sola Scriptura and inspire you to honestly and “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15) and ultimately seriously consider entering the authentic, New Testament, “full gospel”, Catholic faith?

 

[catholictiger]

what i believe is that if anyone preaches something as truth that wasn’t in divine revelation they are not speaking truth.

but divine revelation is more then just scripture.

 

[raisedacatholic]

Just one question? According to scripture. What Bible, any version, in the NT say to Baptize babies?