"If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture"

[Farsight001]

Just one question? According to scripture. What Bible, any version, in the NT say to Baptize babies?

The same verse that says a practice is forbidden unless directly mentioned in the bible.

Now answer our questions and respond to our posts.

 

[JonNC]

Just one question? According to scripture. What Bible, any version, in the NT say to Baptize babies?

Can you point to a verse that says teenagers are to be baptized?

Scripture does say that entire households were baptized, and Christ tells to to go into all nations and baptize. Now, unless households and nations do not have infants…

I found this blog to be an excellent description of the precedent and necessity of infant baptism.

orlutheran.com/trinfbap.html

Jon

 

[Church_Militant]

Just one question? According to scripture. What Bible, any version, in the NT say to Baptize babies?

If you can show us where the Bible says that everything that Christians believe and practice has to be found in the Bible, (See my initial post) then you have a case perhaps. I don’t believe you can produce such a scripture, which makes the concept an errant new wind of doctrines of modern men according to the Bible.

As for infant baptism, (and in order for us not to get off topic), see my blog article called, The Case For Infant Baptism

 

[Ubenedictus]

Neither does sola scriptura reject church tradition. The idea is only asserting which of the two are the higher authority if the two are in contradiction.

sorry friend but sacred Tradition never contradict scripture. I guess this is one way the churh differentiate sacred Tradition from traditions. If it contradict scripture it isn’t tradition
peace

 

[Cat_Herder]

Just one question? According to scripture. What Bible, any version, in the NT say to Baptize babies?

[BIBLEDRB]Ezekiel 36:25[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Lk 18:15[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mk 10:14[/BIBLEDRB]

Now you show us where in Scripture it says that these children magically lost their salvation upon hitting the age of reason and so now they have to make an act of faith (e.g. the sinner’s prayer) or else they go to hell.

 

[Ubenedictus]

I took that to mean that if anyone–whether Paul, the Church of Rome or an Angel, were to preach a gospel different than the original–then we are warned not to heed that “gospel” and that such people are accursed.

So now the question becomes–what exactly is the content of the gospel that Paul preached? I don’t see how anyone can know what that content is apart from the New Testament itself.

Thought experiment: If you had the opportunity to talk to the apostle Paul today and could tell him all the dogmas you presently hold to, I wonder what he would say when you got to indulgences, Mary’s Immaculate Conception and the idea that we can merit an increase in our own justification–just for starters.

Given what we know from his writings, it’s seems highly unlikely that he would recognize any of that as the gospel he preached. Imagine saying back to Paul–“Of course you don’t recognize these teachings. Dogma develops you know.” To that I suspect Paul would simply reply, “anathema.”

by using the word ‘ourselves’ does not mean he believes the church (pillar and bulwak of truth) can pervert the gospel neither does he believe that God servant, the angles can. What he meant is that if anyone teaches a contrary gospel then anathema sit. The immaculate conception and indulgence do not in any way contradict scripture,in fact catholic qoute the bible to support these doctrine.
The idea that catholic believe they can merit justification is a very, very big ,fat and black lie, that’s what protestant say catholic believe, it’s worst than hearsay. The council of trent say that christ the mediator between God and man has made antonement for us and merited the grace by which we are justified. The frist 2 canons of same council uses the words anathema sit on any who believe he can be saved by work (work of law) and establish the fact that we are save by grace through faith (not alone there is love and hope) no one can pay his own ransom say the psalmist, + other quote. Eph 4:7,1cor 12:11 about differing measure of grace, 2pt 3:18 increase(grow) in grace supports the teaching that grace can be increase through goodwork. Now on our own we can’t merit anything but his mercy give our work value (merit) so we ‘own’ what he har given us. Too much qoutes to support ask if you need them. Remember the bible says we will be jugde by ouq deeds.
Peace

 

[raisedacatholic]

So, if it is not prohibited in scripture it’s OK. Wow that sure leaves a huge opening. So, I can smoke pot then. That opens the door to huge rationalization. Scripture says that no one is good not one and the Catholic church says a man is so infallible that no matter what he says goes.
Jesus said call no one father as U have 1 father in heaven.
Scripture says we are all priests of God most high and can come boldly into the throne room of God yet only priests can into the little cabinet and get the elements. The church has decided only priests can do it and not me. That is contrary to God’s word.
Someone said that regarding Baptism, whole households were baptized. Yes, in Jesus. Acts 2 Peter speaks to the people and says, "repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and U shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter is not talking about water baptism, but becoming a follower of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism does not forgive your sins.
Jesus said I am the way. There is no other way or tradition. We need no other help or way or tradition to get to God or get our sins forgiven.

 

[Farsight001]

So, if it is not prohibited in scripture it’s OK. Wow that sure leaves a huge opening. So, I can smoke pot then. That opens the door to huge rationalization. Scripture says that no one is good not one and the Catholic church says a man is so infallible that no matter what he says goes.
Jesus said call no one father as U have 1 father in heaven.
Scripture says we are all priests of God most high and can come boldly into the throne room of God yet only priests can into the little cabinet and get the elements. The church has decided only priests can do it and not me. That is contrary to God’s word.
Someone said that regarding Baptism, whole households were baptized. Yes, in Jesus. Acts 2 Peter speaks to the people and says, "repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and U shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter is not talking about water baptism, but becoming a follower of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism does not forgive your sins.
Jesus said I am the way. There is no other way or tradition. We need no other help or way or tradition to get to God or get our sins forgiven.

Answer our questions. You do not simply get to jump from topic to topic, staying on the offensive with every post. We answered your arguments. Now you answer ours, not ignore them. That’s extremely rude. Changing the subject like this is also against the terms of service here. If you want to talk about these things, that’s fine, but only after the current conversation has come to a conclusion.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Answer our questions. You do not simply get to jump from topic to topic, staying on the offensive with every post. We answered your arguments. Now you answer ours, not ignore them. That’s extremely rude. Changing the subject like this is also against the terms of service here. If you want to talk about these things, that’s fine, but only after the current conversation has come to a conclusion.

[SIGN1]Correct![/SIGN1]
From the Forum Rules

DISCUSSION FORUMS

1. 
   *]Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.
   *]Do not pad your post count with chatty or off-topic messages.

 

[Cat_Herder]

So, if it is not prohibited in scripture it’s OK … There is no other way or tradition. We need no other help or way or tradition to get to God or get our sins forgiven.

Incorrect and already answered

Scripture says that no one is good not one

Read the next verse.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 3:10-11[/BIBLEDRB]

The fact that you are here claiming to understand God shows that the term “no one … not one” here refers to a specified group and not to every single person who has ever existed. If it refers to everyone who exists, since you exist, then you must be bad and ignorant of God.

and the Catholic church says a man is so infallible that no matter what he says goes.

See above regarding authority

Scripture says we are all priests of God most high and can come boldly into the throne room of God yet only priests can into the little cabinet and get the elements. The church has decided only priests can do it and not me. That is contrary to God’s word.

Incorrect and already answered

Someone said that regarding Baptism, whole households were baptized. Yes, in Jesus. Acts 2 Peter speaks to the people and says, "repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins and U shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter is not talking about water baptism, but becoming a follower of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Baptism does not forgive your sins.

Incorrect and already answered

If you want to discuss these points further, then we expect you to engage in an actual discussion instead of bringing them up again and again and again. Otherwise, feel free to leave.

 

[pablope]

]So, if it is not prohibited in scripture it’s OK.

Only for one so twisted.

Jesus said call no one father as U have 1 father in heaven.

Then…could you then answer this question…in Mark 11…9-10

And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.

The jews welcoming Jesus in His final entry to Jerusalem…and within earshot, the Jews were calling David…“father David”…so why is Jesus not stopping them or comdemning them from calling David…“father David”?

We need no other help or way or tradition to get to God or **get our sins forgiven./**QUOTE]

Another question for you…in Job 42…God says the following…

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and **go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” **9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

So, why did God tell Eliphaz and his friends to go through Job to be forgiven for their transgression?

And since God’s words are eternal and He does not change…do you think Jesus changed God’s words in being forgiven for our sins? Or do you think Jesus fulfilled God’s word and perfected forgiveness of sins in the NT through the sacrament of confession?

 

[InDefense]

You either accept the authority of scripture or you don’t. No middle ground. If scripture conflicts with church teachings, the church teachings are wrong ! If you conclude that your church teachings are correct, then you must conclude that scripture is incorrect. If scripture is incorrect, how can you rely on scripture at all ?

Mark 7:
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

A fascinating warning from Jesus, not to hold onto traditions that oppose the Word of God !

 

[Farsight001]

You either accept the authority of scripture or you don’t. No middle ground. If scripture conflicts with church teachings, the church teachings are wrong ! If you conclude that your church teachings are correct, then you must conclude that scripture is incorrect. If scripture is incorrect, how can you rely on scripture at all ?

Or you believe that Church teachings and scripture are in full agreement - what every devout Catholic believes. To pit scripture against church teachings is just a false dichotomy.

 

[Cat_Herder]

You either accept the authority of scripture or you don’t. No middle ground.

No one is arguing about the authority of Scripture.

The issue is whether your interpretation of Scripture is correct. Since you have a different interpretation of Scripture than the 2,000 year-old Catholic Church, then either you are wrong or else (insert typical Protestant fable about the Church having apostatized into a “dark age” and the truth leaving the world until Luther and friends came along in the 1500s AD here).

But since the latter event is impossible, you are wrong.

A fascinating warning from Jesus, not to hold onto traditions that oppose the Word of God !

Every Christian denomination has tradition. The question is whose traditions are apostolic, and whose simply oppose the Word of God. Since your tradition presupposes that Jesus Christ would abandon His Church, your tradition is wrong.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

You either accept the authority of scripture or you don’t. No middle ground. If scripture conflicts with church teachings, the church teachings are wrong !

Has the Church ever taught something that conflicts with Sacred Scripture? No? Then why not be a Catholic

 

[Church_Militant]

You either accept the authority of scripture or you don’t. No middle ground. If scripture conflicts with church teachings, the church teachings are wrong ! If you conclude that your church teachings are correct, then you must conclude that scripture is incorrect. If scripture is incorrect, how can you rely on scripture at all ?

Mark 7:
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

A fascinating warning from Jesus, not to hold onto traditions that oppose the Word of God !

And so what are these supposed teachings from the Catholic Church that you feel are in contradiction to the scriptures? I don’t know of a single one, but I do know that there is no scriptural support for the Sola Scriptura doctrine, which, that being the case, makes it epically fail it’s own test for correct teachings. SS adherents need to read your scripture citation and then honestly reevaluate their beliefs.

 

[raisedacatholic]

Answer our questions. You do not simply get to jump from topic to topic, staying on the offensive with every post. We answered your arguments. Now you answer ours, not ignore them. That’s extremely rude. Changing the subject like this is also against the terms of service here. If you want to talk about these things, that’s fine, but only after the current conversation has come to a conclusion.

Quite frankly, I don’t think Catholics are able to, or have a desire to know the truth. After hearing the truth I became a Christian. Not a protestant or a Catholic but a Christian. My mom was a forever Catholic. When I became a Christian I told my mom that at the very least she could do was to check out what she believed. She did all the research possible on the history of the CC and then was really ticked off because she felt duped. She renounced it and became a born again believer, as it says to do in scripture.
Humans have a built in propensity to justify what they believe they turn on the R word, rationalization. Did U know humans can rationalize and justify any position. I watched a series on netflix called Tudors. The story of King Henry in the early 1500’s. There were some priceless Catholics in that history book.
I’m done in this blog as it is anti scriptural as all these rationalizations Catholics make are called endless genealogies.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Quite frankly, I don’t think Catholics are able to, or have a desire to know the truth. After hearing the truth I became a Christian. Not a protestant or a Catholic but a Christian. My mom was a forever Catholic. When I became a Christian I told my mom that at the very least she could do was to check out what she believed. She did all the research possible on the history of the CC and then was really ticked off because she felt duped. She renounced it and became a born again believer, as it says to do in scripture.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

Why would God allow the Catholic Church to lose the truth if it is His will for everyone to know the truth and be saved?

You need to turn off the TV and start reading the Bible for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you.

Humans have a built in propensity to justify what they believe they turn on the R word, rationalization. Did U know humans can rationalize and justify any position. I watched a series on netflix called Tudors. The story of King Henry in the early 1500’s. There were some priceless Catholics in that history book.
I’m done in this blog as it is anti scriptural as all these rationalizations Catholics make are called endless genealogies.

All of this presupposes that what you believe is the truth. Seeing as you apparently got a lot of it from a sexually explicit Showtime program dedicated to glorifying a king who thought it was okay to divorce his wives and kill most of them, I don’t think there is much else to say.

 

[Farsight001]

Quite frankly, I don’t think Catholics are able to, or have a desire to know the truth. After hearing the truth I became a Christian. Not a protestant or a Catholic but a Christian. My mom was a forever Catholic. When I became a Christian I told my mom that at the very least she could do was to check out what she believed. She did all the research possible on the history of the CC and then was really ticked off because she felt duped. She renounced it and became a born again believer, as it says to do in scripture.
Humans have a built in propensity to justify what they believe they turn on the R word, rationalization. Did U know humans can rationalize and justify any position. I watched a series on netflix called Tudors. The story of King Henry in the early 1500’s. There were some priceless Catholics in that history book.
I’m done in this blog as it is anti scriptural as all these rationalizations Catholics make are called endless genealogies.

In other words, you are running away with your tail between your legs like a coward, unable to respond with logic and scripture to our arguments. You only confirm that we are correct in our understanding. You are the worst kind of Christian, running away from conflict when it is your Christian duty to stand your ground. Christ stood his ground when they came to kill him. Paul stood his ground when he was in prison. Stephen stood his ground when they wanted to stone him. What is the saying - though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. This is just an internet forum. If you can’t stand up for truth here, you sure can’t do it there, when it really matters. What kind of Christian can you call yourself when you can’t even stand up for the faith from the safety of anonymity on a computer, though Christ calls you to give your very life in physical torment if needed?

May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[porthos11]

When I asked a protestant friend of mine the same question he told me that truth of sola scriptura is something we have to assume, just like the trinity, it isn’t in the bible, yet we have to assume that it is true.

Pretty solid answer if you ask me . I wonder what other protestants have to say about this…

Actually, it isn’t a solid answer. You can posit, for the sake of argument, that you don’t accept the Trinity either. Therefore, by what authority can he state that Scripture is inspired and that the Trinity is true?