If God both created the Universe and cares about humans, why did he make it so large?

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Alas hecd, I fear readers will find our exchange impossible to discern.
On the contrary, I think any thoughtful reader who takes the time to consider our exchange will be perfectly able to discern what’s going on there. I also think that any thoughtful person will notice the fact that you have abandoned the exchange in favour of four lengthy and largely irrelevant posts which consist of nothing more than cut and pastes of out-of-date or ill-informed critiques of relativity theory.
Unless one is familiar with the history of the scientific sham that caused churchmen to chose heresy over the decrees of their predecessors, trying to follow the exchange above would be like doing an exam in physics.
Well the question is about physics, so I don’t see how anyone can have a coherent discussion about it without engaging with the science.
No doubt the fact that you are a believer in Einstein’s Special and General relativity looks impressive. However if readers knew the truth about this ‘science’ they would soon change their mind.
There’s nothing “impressive” about accepting that SR and GR are accurate models of reality within their domain - the evidence in support of that is overwhelming.

But this distraction about relativity is neither here nor there - it is merely an attempt to set things off on a tangent. The thoughtful readers that we talked about above are still waiting to hear your geocentric self-consistent, dynamically plausible and coherent explanation for the observed 20.5 arcseconds of annual stellar aberration and for the observed 0.78 arcseconds of stellar parallax to Proxima Centauri - and, no, they cannot be explained by a daily phenomenon. I, for one, am anxious to hear your explanations for these things and am sure others are too.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
Alas hecd, I fear readers will find our exchange impossible to discern. Unless one is familiar with the history of the scientific sham that caused churchmen to chose heresy over the decrees of their predecessors, trying to follow the exchange above would be like doing an exam in physics.
Just a very quick clarification to avoid possible confusion. In my humble opinion, it appears to me that the heresy [at times, a four-letter word] which you describe is actually a scientific heresy and not a theological one.

There are no Catholic theological doctrines proclaiming that the earth is in one position or another.

Blessings,
granny

John3: 16-17
 
Alas hecd, I fear readers will find our exchange impossible to discern. Unless one is familiar with the history of the scientific sham that caused churchmen to chose heresy over the decrees of their predecessors, trying to follow the exchange above would be like doing an exam in physics.
Oh cassini, perhaps it is this that you disagree with too. A quote from FOURTH MINISTERIAL CONFERENCE OF THE BOLOGNA PROCESS, STATEMENT OF H.E. MONS. JÓZEF MIROSLAW ZYCINSKI, ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, HEAD OF THE HOLY SEE DELEGATION, Bergen (Norway), 19-20 May 2005: Trying to foster the interdisciplinary dialogue so important for the integral education, John Paul II wrote on the occasion of the tricentennial of the publication of Newton’s Principia: “Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish” (Letter to George Coyne, M13). We realise that in the billions of years of cosmic evolution, the existence of the human species is measured only in thousands of years. In this context, it is the moral duty of our generation to assume our responsibility for the academic and cultural growth of Homo sapiens. In undertaking this duty, the Holy See will consistently support the Declaration of Bologna to construct a new academic model of unity in diversity.”
vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2005/documents/rc_seg-st_20050519_bologna-process_en.html

FYI, We are scientifically called homo sapiens. 🙂 Even my goddaughters know that!
 
Cassini, you don’t agree with NASA or the National Earth Science Teachers Association (NESTA), whereas I agree with them. Hopefully other viewers will enjoy exploring the websites. As a mature adult Catholic woman, I find it disturbing and silly that you would make this remark: Let me please end on this note, your etiquette toward those who disagree with you is rather regretable. I really don’t like the tone of rightousness that your statement entails, which is undoubtedly false.🙂 Also, I have two goddaughters that plan on becoming scientists. Everything that I have presented to this topic has been taught to them. One is in a Catholic school and the other in a public school. All I can say to you Cassini is don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours, “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.” Furthermore, the Catholic Faith is alive and well. I’m more concerned about you. I pray for you. 🙂 Time for me to move onward to another topic. I’ve left scattered enough stuff throughout this topic. However, I may return.😃
Somehow Log, I don’t think debating forums are for you. Rarely if ever have I ever posted a website to answer a poster. Websites do not have the infallible truth that you seem to imply. I could cite moving earth and fixed sun websites and watch your faith in websites disappear very quickly. This is not a tennis match of website exchanges, but an exchange of beliefs and opinions. Posts are also written up as necessary, one leading to another leading to another and so on. In all I contributed 37 posts on this thread. You arrive at post 174 supporting St A with some rather complicated scientific stuff. You reappear on post 198 with your first website again for St A, backing up the heading 3.5 billion years - the first life appears. Now that’s the kind of ‘fact’ that gets me going but I thought, that is going down the banned E road so held back. This was followed by another site printed off that only evolutionists take seriously. To comment on that is a waste of time.
Next your THIRD post arrives, not a word from you only a reproduced paper from A Dr David Stern.
I replied to this statement of DR Stern’s. I showed a litany of world renowned scientists who rejected the idea that Newton proved anything to do with heliocentrism nor falsified geocentrism. Had I said what they said I would have been dismissed as knowing nothing about science. As it turned out it seems by your reaction these scientists know nothing about science either because you never responded to my quotes.

Not once did I address you personally Log, not once. Nevertheless

Your response (210) to the quotes of scientists was the following
**‘Cassini is like my new adorable puppy named Grace. They both want a lot of attention! The only difference is my puppy is trainable.’ **
I replied;
’The ‘attention’ I get from you guys log, I wouldn’t wish on a dog.
As for your textbook quotes, well, what else would they say.


Your current post above confirms this Log.
Originally Posted by cassini
**No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.’ **
LOG replies: 'As a mature adult Catholic woman, I find it disturbing and silly that you would make this remark: **‘Let me please end on this note, your etiquette toward those who disagree with you is rather regretable. I really don’t like the tone of rightousness that your statement entails, which is undoubtedly false…Also, I have two goddaughters that plan on becoming scientists. All I can say to you Cassini is don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours,’ **

Well log, all I can say is that I have a brother who is a Professor of Quantum Mathematics, and we can argue the matter without falling out, and he gives as good as he gets. I would hope your goddaughters will be a little more openminded and actually ask me why I believe what I believe about cosmology. I also hope that they learn that the Catholic faith they share with me holds the same opinion as mine. Here it is log.

Given the Church’s duty is to preserve truth, and truth is reality, physical, philosophical and spiritual reality that permeates all time, past, present and future, even to its co-relationship with eternity, then all things that threaten truth must be condemned and corrected by the Church. This obligation was dogmatised at Vatican Council I of 1869-70:

Further, the Church which, together with the apostolic duty of teaching, has received the command to guard the deposit of faith, has also, from divine providence, the right and duty of proscribing “knowledge falsely so called” (I Tim. 6:20), “lest anyone be cheated by philosophy and vain deceit” (cf. Col. 2:8). Wherefore, all faithful Christians are not only forbidden to defend opinions of this sort, which are known to be contrary to the teaching of the faith, especially if they have been condemned by the Church, as the legitimate conclusions of science, but they shall be altogether bound to hold them rather as errors, which present a false appearance of truth.’ — (Denzinger - 1795-98.)
 
Oh cassini, perhaps it is this that you disagree with too. A quote from FOURTH MINISTERIAL CONFERENCE OF THE BOLOGNA PROCESS, STATEMENT OF H.E. MONS. JÓZEF MIROSLAW ZYCINSKI, ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, HEAD OF THE HOLY SEE DELEGATION, Bergen (Norway), 19-20 May 2005: Trying to foster the interdisciplinary dialogue so important for the integral education, John Paul II wrote on the occasion of the tricentennial of the publication of Newton’s Principia: “Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish” (Letter to George Coyne, M13). We realise that in the billions of years of cosmic evolution, the existence of the human species is measured only in thousands of years. In this context, it is the moral duty of our generation to assume our responsibility for the academic and cultural growth of Homo sapiens. In undertaking this duty, the Holy See will consistently support the Declaration of Bologna to construct a new academic model of unity in diversity.”
vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2005/documents/rc_seg-st_20050519_bologna-process_en.html

FYI, We are scientifically called homo sapiens. 🙂 Even my goddaughters know that!
Yes I do Log, absolutely reject these personal opinions of modernist (homo consensus) churchmen.
 
Hi Ricmat, I plainly implied as noted that Cassini likes a lot of attention like my puppy does. I gave him a lot of attention as you can see in my previous post. 😃 I’m honest if that puts a frown on your face then truth be it I honestly don’t know why.
Putting a smiley after an insult does not make it less of an insult. And repeating an insulting opinion does not add to its truth.
 
You say that I remind you of StA. I assume you mean member StAnastasia. I don’t know much about the person. We have disagreed before on topics that we have both been on. My background is in science. Naturally, I support science and religion.🙂 You may wish to review my contributions since I joined by reading through my messages on different topics.
My background is science. But more recently I’ve been more involved in religion.

I’m not going to review your contributions on different topics, like most people, I don’t have time. However, if you deem them to be profound or something, provide some links to specific posts.
 
The ironic thing is, Cassini does not like a lot of attention like a puppy does, he simply believes what he believes, and states it as much. It’s actually some of his critics here that seem to be basking in that puppy like glory, hoping that by ridiculing him, or in their mind at least, humiliating him with their unassailable, and quickie internet researched arguments, that they will be the shiniest and proudest puppy on the Catholic Answers Forum.
 
Hmm - a discussion with real content seems to have been derailed by some gratuitous cutting and pasting (by more than one person) and the fallacy of the argument from internet authority. I hope that all of this doesn’t prevent cassini from setting out his self-consistent and dynamically plausible theory that explains the 20.5 arcseconds of annual stellar aberration and the 0.78 arcseconds of stellar parallax which I am still hoping to see.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
I stand behind what I wrote on the previous page, taking note that snippets were taken from my contributions on that page and placed on this page which now distort the truth of what I earlier presented, due to the fact that it was Ricmat and Ronnie that provoked the responses I made on the previous page. Also, to ronnie bonigli re the topic: If God both created the Universe and cares about humans, why did he make it so large? Your comment:“The ironic thing is, Cassini does not like a lot of attention like a puppy does, he simply believes what he believes, and states it as much. It’s actually some of his critics here that seem to be basking in that puppy like glory, hoping that by ridiculing him, or in their mind at least, humiliating him with their unassailable, and quickie internet researched arguments, that they will be the shiniest and proudest puppy on the Catholic Answers Forum.” My response to you and ricmat can be seen on the previous page.

It is obvious that cassini doesn’t agree with NASA or the National Earth Science Teachers Association (NESTA). Most importantly, Cassini made a threat which I responded to on the previous page:*Cassini don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours, “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.” * Ronnie, you apparently don’t find Cassini’s comment to be offensive, whereas I most definately do. This leads to me to think you agree with Cassini. Do you?

It is apparent to me and viewers that Ricmat’s comments and your comments Ronnie, and Cassini’s comments to me earlier and now have only brought about me having to protect myself against unwarrented attacks. Amazing, three men attacking with a failed attempt to humiliate a woman on the Internet doesn’t really look that cool to thoughtful minded viewers. 😃 A woman who provided reputable sources to the conversation. Ah, and so goes your most recent comment Ronnie, “The ironic thing is, Cassini does not like a lot of attention like a puppy does, he simply believes what he believes, and states it as much. It’s actually some of his critics here that seem to be basking in that puppy like glory, hoping that by ridiculing him, or in their mind at least, humiliating him with their unassailable, and quickie internet researched arguments, that they will be the shiniest and proudest puppy on the Catholic Answers Forum.” Get a life Ronnie, no one is humiliating Cassini! He keeps returning to this topic. You are very keen on distorting the truth. Also, you might take notice of Cassini’s last comment to me at the bottom of the previous page! I hope you did take notice him ridiculing not only ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne! I’m anxious to see what Cassini has to say to Alec. Also, Cassini do you agree the universe is 13.7 billion years old (1)?
  1. esa.int/esaCP/SEMF2FRZ5BG_Expanding_0.html
 
If you really think cassini “threatened your goddaughters”, and if you really think me and ricmat are trying to “humiliate a woman on the Internet” . . . well, I don’t even know where to begin. I’ll just be chariatable and say it’s an odd line of reasoning and see no point in responding to it.
 
It is obvious that cassini doesn’t agree with NASA or the National Earth Science Teachers Association (NESTA). Most importantly, Cassini made a threat which I responded to on the previous page:*Cassini don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours, “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.” * Ronnie, you apparently don’t find Cassini’s comment to be offensive, whereas I most definately do. This leads to me to think you agree with Cassini. Do you?

It is apparent to me and viewers that Ricmat’s comments and your comments Ronnie, and Cassini’s comments to me earlier and now have only brought about me having to protect myself against unwarrented attacks. Amazing, three men attacking with a failed attempt to humiliate a woman on the Internet doesn’t really look that cool to thoughtful minded viewers. 😃
Get a life Ronnie, no one is humiliating Cassini! He keeps returning to this topic. You are very keen on distorting the truth. Also, you might take notice of Cassini’s last comment to me at the bottom of the previous page! I hope you did take notice him ridiculing not only ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne! I’m anxious to see what Cassini has to say to Alec. Also, Cassini do you agree the universe is 13.7 billion years old (1)?
Firstly may I thank you Ricmat and Ronnie, for your support, fairness and respect shown. And yes I do agree with ronnie that scientific ‘experts’ on the forum do try to humiliate those who do not agree with them. Now while I was tempted to draw attention to you log as a lady in a light hearted way, I resisted. But now I see you claim some protection as a lady in the face of all these men opposing your style. No need for that, we are all equal on CAF.
That said, one has to have a hard neck if one is to fight the good fight of tradition in the face of the modernism now embedded in the Church. Whereas one could be offended by being compared to a puppy, I know it was not meant like that. I am also Irish, and we are well able to have a good row before retreating to the pub for a pint of guinness that makes us all friends again, even if we differ in opinions. All I ask Log is that posters rebut opinions with answers of their own rather than using NASA, the ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne. Just because they are NASA, the ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne does not mean everybody has to agree with their opinions.

For example you single out my comment: “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7”

Here is my account of POPES confirming the above:

Ambassador Niccolini, who had been very active trying to save Galileo throughout the summer of 1632, requested an audience with the Pope. On Sept. 4th he was granted a meeting at which he presented a letter of protest against the makeup of the special commission. The Pope became very angry with this request saying that ‘Galileo had dared enter where he should not, into the most grave and dangerous subjects that one could possibly raise at this moment.’ He added that those theologians would examine ‘every word’ of the book. Insisting Galileo was still his friend, Pope Urban VIII said there would be a trial ‘in the interests of faith and religion,’ because the matter was ‘troublesome and dangerous, far more serious than His Highness believes.’ Ordering the Ambassador to secrecy, the Pope told him to ‘try to be a bit alert, and I should immediately explain to His Highness that Signor Galileo, under cover of his school for young men, should not impress on them troublesome and dangerous opinions.’ Pope Urban VIII also communicated with Ambassador Niccolini through his private secretary Pietro Benessi, telling him that it was impossible to avoid an official trial due to the damning evidence in the Dialogue. It was, the Pope said, a matter that ‘put Christianity in danger.’ The seriousness with which the Pope viewed the matter is evident. Later, during an audience on March 13, 1633, Urban VIII reiterated to the Ambassador that Galileo must be put on trial for these ‘new and dangerous doctrines’. What the Pope made clear was that this was a case of serious heretical subversion, ‘which’ he repeated once again, ‘put Christianity in danger.’

Now what is offensive about that. I can demonstrate the truth of the above remark, but you just find it offensive. What is offensive about it? That is what you should have demonstrated. That is how you respond in a debate.

Finally do I agree with a 13.7 billion year old world? I did once, after it was put into my brain. Then I met a man of supreme intellectual Catholic faith. He thought me how to THINK as a Catholic. Only then does one find these things ( heliocentrism, uniformitarianism and evolutionism) presented by science are godless conclusions, that is, assumptions that totally reject preternatural acts of God, or His Will in their continuity.
 
Here is where relativity really kicks in. Relative to us, the universe is really large. Relative to God, not so. 😃
 
If you really think cassini “threatened your goddaughters”, and if you really think me and ricmat are trying to “humiliate a woman on the Internet” . . . well, I don’t even know where to begin. I’ll just be chariatable and say it’s an odd line of reasoning and see no point in responding to it.
Ronnie, that is your opinion which is most definitely false. I never said he threatened my goddaughters! I said, “It is obvious that cassini doesn’t agree with NASA or the National Earth Science Teachers Association (NESTA). Most importantly, Cassini made a threat which I responded to on the previous page:Cassini don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours, “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.” Ronnie, his threat was to those who disagree with his statement which implies that people who support current science (NASA and the National Earth Science Teachers Association) are causing ‘the destruction of the Catholic Faith’ and that is ‘what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7’. Obviously, that is untrue. This leads to me to think you agree with Cassini. Do you?” Still no answer from Ronnie to my question. This leads me to believe he agrees with Cassini unless he states otherwise.
 
If you really think cassini “threatened your goddaughters”, and if you really think me and ricmat are trying to “humiliate a woman on the Internet” . . . well, I don’t even know where to begin. I’ll just be chariatable and say it’s an odd line of reasoning and see no point in responding to it.
Ronnie, that is your opinion which is most definitely false. I never said he threatened my goddaughters! I said, “It is obvious that cassini doesn’t agree with NASA or the National Earth Science Teachers Association (NESTA). Most importantly, Cassini made a threat which I responded to on the previous page:Cassini don’t ever threaten my goddaughters with this comment of yours, “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7.” Ronnie, his threat was to those who disagree with his statement which implies that people who support current science (NASA and the National Earth Science Teachers Association) are causing ‘the destruction of the Catholic Faith’ and that is ‘what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7’. Obviously, that is untrue. This leads to me to think you agree with Cassini. Do you?” Still no answer from Ronnie to my question. This leads me to believe he agrees with Cassini.
Firstly may I thank you Ricmat and Ronnie, for your support, fairness and respect shown. And yes I do agree with ronnie that scientific ‘experts’ on the forum do try to humiliate those who do not agree with them. Now while I was tempted to draw attention to you log as a lady in a light hearted way, I resisted. But now I see you claim some protection as a lady in the face of all these men opposing your style. No need for that, we are all equal on CAF.
One of my research projects is how men treat women on the Internet. No one has humiliated anyone. As you have stated: “That said, one has to have a hard neck if one is to fight the good fight of tradition in the face of the modernism now embedded in the Church. Whereas one could be offended by being compared to a puppy, I know it was not meant like that. I am also Irish, and we are well able to have a good row before retreating to the pub for a pint of guinness that makes us all friends again, even if we differ in opinions. All I ask Log is that posters rebut opinions with answers of their own rather than using NASA, the ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne. Just because they are NASA, the ARCHBISHOP OF LUBLIN, John Paul II, and retired Vatican astromomer George Coyne does not mean everybody has to agree with their opinions.” I use scientific articles (refer to pages 14 and 15) that rebuke claims such as yours, Cassini.
(continued)
 
I had brought this up earlier, no one really touched on it though. Anyway, according to the Theory of Relativity, there is NO absolute standard of rest in the universe against which all motion can be measured, it’s not like you can have an empty area of space, say a cubic mile of space, and then say that a spacecraft is “moving” 1000 miles per hour in relation to that volume of space. Instead, all motion of objects is measured in relation to other objects, a spacecraft can be considered “at rest”, or going a million miles an hour, depending on want you’re measuring it’s motion against. You just look at the “spacewalks”, where the astronaunts are “floating” in space, you can say they are not moving, or are traveling 10000 miles an hour in relation to the continent passing below them on Earth, or you can measure them at any other speed, none of speeds are* wrong*. Now, I believe the motions of the planets are explained by the force of gravity causing them to be in orbits relative to the Sun. However, if someone wants to say that Jupiter is at rest, and thus at the center of the universe, according to Relativity, they are not truly incorrect. Obviously, we can say the same thing in regards to the Earth. It’s a weird world out there.
 
For example you single out my comment: “No, the Catholic faith is fundamentally and thus doctrinally rooted in the traditional interpretation of Scripture, and a fixed earth and moving sun is the traditional interpretation. Once you start to contradict the Fathers and the true meaning of Scripture, you contradict the very basis of the Catholic faith. The destruction of the Catholic Faith is what the DEVIL DOES, 24/7”

Here is my account of POPES confirming the above:

Ambassador Niccolini, who had been very active trying to save Galileo throughout the summer of 1632, requested an audience with the Pope. On Sept. 4th he was granted a meeting at which he presented a letter of protest against the makeup of the special commission. The Pope became very angry with this request saying that ‘Galileo had dared enter where he should not, into the most grave and dangerous subjects that one could possibly raise at this moment.’ He added that those theologians would examine ‘every word’ of the book. Insisting Galileo was still his friend, Pope Urban VIII said there would be a trial ‘in the interests of faith and religion,’ because the matter was ‘troublesome and dangerous, far more serious than His Highness believes.’ Ordering the Ambassador to secrecy, the Pope told him to ‘try to be a bit alert, and I should immediately explain to His Highness that Signor Galileo, under cover of his school for young men, should not impress on them troublesome and dangerous opinions.’ Pope Urban VIII also communicated with Ambassador Niccolini through his private secretary Pietro Benessi, telling him that it was impossible to avoid an official trial due to the damning evidence in the Dialogue. It was, the Pope said, a matter that ‘put Christianity in danger.’ The seriousness with which the Pope viewed the matter is evident. Later, during an audience on March 13, 1633, Urban VIII reiterated to the Ambassador that Galileo must be put on trial for these ‘new and dangerous doctrines’. What the Pope made clear was that this was a case of serious heretical subversion, ‘which’ he repeated once again, ‘put Christianity in danger.’

Now what is offensive about that. I can demonstrate the truth of the above remark, but you just find it offensive. What is offensive about it? That is what you should have demonstrated. That is how you respond in a debate.
Please don’t tell me how to think! Pope John Paul II apologized for the error and applauded Galileo. The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), which is sponsored by the National Science Foundation (NSF) has more accurate and pertinent information. Here is a quote from that website:
Reproduction of one of Galileo’s sunspot drawings.

The umbrae/penumbrae structure is clearly depicted on this June 23 1612 drawing.

To Harriot belongs the oldest recorded sunspot observation, on December 8 1610, as evidenced by entries in his notebooks, but he did not pursue these observations in any systematic or continuous manner at the time. Fabricius was the first to publish his results in 1611, and correctly interpreted the apparent motion of sunspots in terms of axial rotation of the Sun. Galileo and Scheiner, however, were the most active in using sunspots to attempt to infer physical properties of the Sun. To Galileo belongs the credit of making a convincing case that sunspots are indeed features of the solar surface, as opposed to intra-Mercurial planets (Scheiner’s original position). Galileo’s views were first laid out in detail in his 1613 Letters on Sunspots, written in response to Scheiner own views on the matter, first published in 1612 under the pseudonym of Apelles in the form of three letters to Mark Welser (1558-1614), Augsburg Magistrate, patron of science, and scientific correspondent of both Scheiner and Galileo. Some years later Scheiner, in his massive 1630 treatise on sunspots entitled Rosa Ursina, accepted the view of sunspots as marking on the solar surface and used his accurate observations, to infer the fact that the Sun’s rotation axis is inclined with respect to the ecliptic plane (i.e., the plane of the Earth’s orbit around the Sun).

The existence of ephemeral blemishes on the Sun’s surface was in stark conflict with the then prevailing Ptolemaic/Aristotelian-based cosmology endorsed by the Roman catholic Church (after suitable modification to avoid open contradiction with the Scriptures). Galileo’s views on sunspots contributed significantly the sequence of events that landed him in front of the Roman Inquisition in 1633. Officially, Galileo was condemned for disobedience to the Church, in the context of his open endorsement of the Copernican heliocentric planetary model. Growing animosity on the part of the Jesuits who, in particular through their chief astronomer Christopher Clavius (1538-1612), had been originally quite supportive of Galileo’s early telescopic discoveries, also contributed to Galileo’s downfall.
hao.ucar.edu/education/TimelineC.php
Finally do I agree with a 13.7 billion year old world? I did once, after it was put into my brain. Then I met a man of supreme intellectual Catholic faith. He thought me how to THINK as a Catholic. Only then does one find these things ( heliocentrism, uniformitarianism and evolutionism) presented by science are godless conclusions, that is, assumptions that totally reject preternatural acts of God, or His Will in their continuity.
Who is the man that you are referring to? I’m a Catholic woman who disagrees with you and him as I’ve noted throughout my contribututions on this topic from this page and previous pages. Honestly speaking, why don’t you trust God. You don’t think it pleases God that we can study and learn about science? You give me the impression that God doesn’t like astrophysists, astronomers, etc.
 
Obviously, that is untrue. This leads to me to think you agree with Cassini. Do you?" Still no answer from Ronnie to my question. This leads me to believe he agrees with Cassini.
LogisticsBranch, if you look back through the thread you’ll see all my posts which clearly show me as a “heliocentrist”, I’ve even said I didn’t know there were any Catholic geocentrist out there, until now. But I think when someone is arguing their beliefs in an respectful and intelligent manner, we owe it to them to show them reciprocal respect. And as I pointed out, according to Relativity it’s not truly wrong to say the earth is at “rest”, so things get a little weird once we go down the rabbit hole of absolute motion in the universe. Insulting people on the forum is never a good idea (especially this one, where the mods have a near zero tolerence for it, people get banned every week). Me and you have actually interacted in the past and had a very pleasant exchange, while both disagreeing with the trollish behavior of another poster on the thread (who has since been banned, I saw that one coming way back then). Anyway, take a peak at an old thread of mine where we agreed and let’s just all be respectful of those we disagree with.
see post #128, forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6830316#post6830316

Peace, let’s all be friends here
 
Please don’t tell me how to think! Pope John Paul II apologized for the error and applauded Galileo. The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), which is sponsored by the National Science Foundation (NSF) has more accurate and pertinent information. Here is a quote from that website:
Reproduction of one of Galileo’s sunspot drawings.

The umbrae/penumbrae structure is clearly depicted on this June 23 1612 drawing.

To Harriot belongs the oldest recorded sunspot observation, on December 8 1610, as evidenced by entries in his notebooks, but he did not pursue these observations in any systematic or continuous manner at the time. Fabricius was the first to publish his results in 1611, and correctly interpreted the apparent motion of sunspots in terms of axial rotation of the Sun. Galileo and Scheiner, however, were the most active in using sunspots to attempt to infer physical properties of the Sun. To Galileo belongs the credit of making a convincing case that sunspots are indeed features of the solar surface, as opposed to intra-Mercurial planets (Scheiner’s original position). Galileo’s views were first laid out in detail in his 1613 Letters on Sunspots, written in response to Scheiner own views on the matter, first published in 1612 under the pseudonym of Apelles in the form of three letters to Mark Welser (1558-1614), Augsburg Magistrate, patron of science, and scientific correspondent of both Scheiner and Galileo. Some years later Scheiner, in his massive 1630 treatise on sunspots entitled Rosa Ursina, accepted the view of sunspots as marking on the solar surface and used his accurate observations, to infer the fact that the Sun’s rotation axis is inclined with respect to the ecliptic plane (i.e., the plane of the Earth’s orbit around the Sun).

The existence of ephemeral blemishes on the Sun’s surface was in stark conflict with the then prevailing Ptolemaic/Aristotelian-based cosmology endorsed by the Roman catholic Church (after suitable modification to avoid open contradiction with the Scriptures). Galileo’s views on sunspots contributed significantly the sequence of events that landed him in front of the Roman Inquisition in 1633. Officially, Galileo was condemned for disobedience to the Church, in the context of his open endorsement of the Copernican heliocentric planetary model. Growing animosity on the part of the Jesuits who, in particular through their chief astronomer Christopher Clavius (1538-1612), had been originally quite supportive of Galileo’s early telescopic discoveries, also contributed to Galileo’s downfall.
hao.ucar.edu/education/TimelineC.php

Who is the man that you are referring to? I’m a Catholic woman who disagrees with you and him as I’ve noted throughout my contribututions on this topic from this page and previous pages. Honestly speaking, why don’t you trust God. You don’t think it pleases God that we can study and learn about science? You give me the impression that God doesn’t like astrophysists, astronomers, etc.
Logistics. I’v read enough. You totally lack magnanimity. Like Ronnie I see no point in responding to your posts any more…
 
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