B
Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
This occurred to me just now. Have any philosophers (either theists/atheists) answered this question?
If God doesn't exist, is there any point in being a good person?
- Status
A
Ahimsa
Guest
The question presumes that anything would exist at all, if God did not exist.
“God did not exist” – a funny phrase, as if “God” and “existence” were two different things.
A
AitchB
Guest
If anything people will be good to keep themselves out of prison.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Many non-believers are convinced moral laws don’t depend on the existence of God. They believe in being good for its own sake.
E
Ender
Guest
Clearly this is true, but I am not familiar with any argument that makes a good case for the existence of morality itself in a purely material universe.
Ender
H
Heuchler
Guest
This is actually a big argument for belief by using the fact that we have a conscience and a common knowledge of good and evil.
No, if there isnt a God there is no objective reason to say good is superior to evil or vice-versa. Morality would all hinge on the opinion that order is better than chaos and giving is better than stealing. It wouldnt make murderers evil and deserving of justice, it would just mean they live a different lifestyle and hold different beliefs and that we should punish them for these opposing views. In my opinion, a very stupid way of going about morality.
No, if there isnt a God there is no objective reason to say good is superior to evil or vice-versa. Morality would all hinge on the opinion that order is better than chaos and giving is better than stealing. It wouldnt make murderers evil and deserving of justice, it would just mean they live a different lifestyle and hold different beliefs and that we should punish them for these opposing views. In my opinion, a very stupid way of going about morality.
P
Perplexity
Guest
This is very question-beggy to me, since from an atheist’s perspective; God doesn’t exist and many, many non-theists are moral persons. There have been many moral theories drawn up which are available to the non-theist. The most popular meta-ethical position is non-cognitivism, wiki has a good page on it. Check out ‘the veil of ignorance’ as well.
But, sure. Why wouldn’t they?
But, sure. Why wouldn’t they?
T
tonyrey
Guest
Only morality based on expediency!
K
karebear92
Guest
On an interview with Piers Morgan, Ricky Gervais basically said, and I am paraphrasing, that he doesn’t need a god to know what is right and wrong. He treats people the way he wants to be treated. If he treats people kindly they will treat him the same. He’s not really a philosopher, though.
B
bnbkaine
Guest
Bollocks.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Form Rule 1: Messages posted to this board must be polite…
K
karebear92
Guest
Was that towards Ricky Gervais or my comment?
L
Luke_K
Guest
You need to be precise in what you mean by “good.” Fundamentally, good can be defined as that which is to be desired and acted for. Now obviously an atheist can have a different opinion on what should be desired and acted for, based on his values, and therefore still be a “good” person under his value system.
But I guess that you mean good in the Christian sense. Then no, there is no point unless you value Christian morality.
Like it or not, though, God made the rules and if we wish to inherit eternal life we have to follow his commandments. (Matthew 19:16-22)
But I guess that you mean good in the Christian sense. Then no, there is no point unless you value Christian morality.
Like it or not, though, God made the rules and if we wish to inherit eternal life we have to follow his commandments. (Matthew 19:16-22)
O
Obsculta
Guest
As Dostoyevsky said, 'Without God all things are permitted."
This theme is addressed in detail in the fantastic book The Godless Delusion.
This theme is addressed in detail in the fantastic book The Godless Delusion.
W
Windfish
Guest
What IS a good person if God doesn’t exist? We’re all just material objects walking around with the illusion of consciousness.
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
Luke
**
Now obviously an atheist can have a different opinion on what should be desired and acted for, based on his values, and therefore still be a “good” person under his value system.**
It’s good that you put “good” in quotes, because the “good” of an atheist might be the evil of a Christian. Yes, atheists are relativists for the most part, and sometimes you will find diametrically opposite systems of morality among them. How will society function in such a morally chaotic universe?
As the Archbishop of New York recently pointed out, same sex marriage may well be the prelude to legalizing polygamy. But why not incestuous marriage as well, and even the legalization of sex between adults and children, as Nambla demands?
If all moralities are equal as a matter of free choice, who is to draw the line and where is it to be drawn?
**
Now obviously an atheist can have a different opinion on what should be desired and acted for, based on his values, and therefore still be a “good” person under his value system.**
It’s good that you put “good” in quotes, because the “good” of an atheist might be the evil of a Christian. Yes, atheists are relativists for the most part, and sometimes you will find diametrically opposite systems of morality among them. How will society function in such a morally chaotic universe?
As the Archbishop of New York recently pointed out, same sex marriage may well be the prelude to legalizing polygamy. But why not incestuous marriage as well, and even the legalization of sex between adults and children, as Nambla demands?
If all moralities are equal as a matter of free choice, who is to draw the line and where is it to be drawn?
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
If God doesn’t exist, there is definitely a point in EVERYBODY OTHER THAN ME being a good person. 
L
Luke_K
Guest
As a side comment, I don’t understand why people seem to think that polygamy is worse than same-sex marriage, as if SSM will lead to polygamy DOWN the slippery slope. I mean, the Hebrew patriarchs were polygamous. It’s still wrong, anyways.
The government/the people with the power to enforce it. And we know how that turns out.
S
samiam1611
Guest
Here is a similar thread you may be interested in:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=546726
I think there most certainly is a point in being a good person even if there is no god. (I will assume that, by extension, you mean no afterlife as well.) In any case, life on earth will be better for you if you are a good person.
For instance, if you get sick:
If you are nice, and have lots of friends or family members who love you, there will be people to take care of you.
If you are a jerk and have no friends and are estranged from your family, you will have to fend for yourself. Imagine if you became paralyzed or something really serious like that. Without someone to take care of you, you are pretty much screwed. So one “point” of being a good person is it is better for your own wellbeing.
As others have said, what’s “good” varies so on certain points it is debatable. But just generally speaking, yes, there is/are point(s) to being good!
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
samiam
For instance, if you get sick:
If you are nice, and have lots of friends or family members who love you, there will be people to take care of you.
If you are a jerk and have no friends and are estranged from your family, you will have to fend for yourself. Imagine if you became paralyzed or something really serious like that. Without someone to take care of you, you are pretty much screwed. So one “point” of being a good person is it is better for your own wellbeing.
Yes, this is a reasonable point of view, even as Christ put it more simply.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
But whereas there is a mandate for Christians to be reasonable, there is no same mandate for atheists.
The atheist can reason just the opposite with impunity.
“Do unto others before they do it unto you.”
That is neither reasonable nor Christian.
For instance, if you get sick:
If you are nice, and have lots of friends or family members who love you, there will be people to take care of you.
If you are a jerk and have no friends and are estranged from your family, you will have to fend for yourself. Imagine if you became paralyzed or something really serious like that. Without someone to take care of you, you are pretty much screwed. So one “point” of being a good person is it is better for your own wellbeing.
Yes, this is a reasonable point of view, even as Christ put it more simply.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
But whereas there is a mandate for Christians to be reasonable, there is no same mandate for atheists.
The atheist can reason just the opposite with impunity.
“Do unto others before they do it unto you.”
That is neither reasonable nor Christian.
- Status