If God is all knowing

[TheCuriousCat]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

 

[ClearWater]

If you already have your mind made up, why come on the forum?

 

[pianistclare]

So, you’re mad at God because you failed to recognize you needed Him?
Or because He didn’t seem to “fix” your problems?

God IS all knowing. He knows that there is a spark of faith in you and He’s patiently waiting.
Now is the time. You’re here, asking.
Ask these same questions of a parish priest. Listen, meditate on what he says, and be open to the Holy Spirit answering your questions for yourself, because none of us can tell you. We’re strangers. All I know is, is that anger never made anyone happy But love, freely given, often does.

God bless you today, and always.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

God gave you sufficient grace to hold onto your faith in Him against the temptation of losing it. It was, in the end, your choice. It wasn’t God’s fault.

Relying on a “code phrase” is not very safe. Someone could say this code phrase but their religion could be completely false.

 

[smichhertz]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

Hi TheCuriousCat,

Thanks for your post. You raise good points that are really important to the discussion of the existence of God.

There is a key assumption you have made that I believe is false. You will not burn in Hell for all eternity for losing your faith. If someone ends up in Hell, they do so because their own conscience damns them. Of course, I cannot speak for your conscience, so I won’t. If your conscience tells you there is no God then you will not be damned for not believing in Him. As long as you live a morally good life in line with you conscience, and inform your conscience then you have nothing to fear. Remember to always seek the truth with the willingness to admit you could be wrong. I have found that when a person has an open and humble mind, they naturally tend to gravitate towards the truth because they are open to changing themselves to seek it and live it.

I hope you find this helpful! Feel free to post back anytime!

 

[davidv]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

Why does the fact that you did not get what you wanted mean that God is not all knowing?
Sounds like a major logical failure - non sequitur.

Was what you wanted really good for you? How do you know?

 

[MT1926]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

Yes you are exactly correct. He does know what, where, when, why and most especially HOW. The problem is in this generation we want the HOW to be on our terms. Sometimes while we take the journey in life we have to go across some pretty rough roads to get to the destination. For the past 2 years I have been living in pot hole city, and it seems like I can’t find a smooth road within a million miles. I thank God for this forum and for the Radio show, if it wasn’t for them I think I would be broken beyond repair by now.

I am so glad you are here now, which is a good sign that your mind is not closed to God. Maybe this is all part of God’s plan for you. Over the past couple of years I have found I was able to embrace my faith a little better by doing my own studying and asking my own questions. We, especially me, tend to learn a little better when we embrace what we want to learn instead of having someone else shove it down our throats. Stick around and ask questions, you’re in the right place. I believe you are exactly were God wants you to be.

Just one question, could you please expand on this quote. I don’t think I am totally understanding what you mean by it.

There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it.

 

[Trident_H]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

I understand what you’re saying man. I really do. And I feel bad about it. I get that you sort of feel a bit orphaned in this. I get that maybe you feel like the father you thought you had who loved you and cared about you walked out and left you alone. That maybe He never even existed from start to finish.

Only it’s not quite like that. It’s not the full story. There’s a whole extra treatment you’re maybe overlooking.

Now I’m not gonna put all the blame on your shoulders in this. I don’t really think that’s fair if you really were struggling. If you really were giving this an honest go then I think you’re where you felt drawn to.

That is I won’t do that if you really were trying hard. And I won’t do that if the reason you finally outed God wasn’t just because you could then finally do what you wanted in peace. Or something.

But what I think you might be missing in this is that God’s not playing favorites with you. He’s treating you like everyone else. He’s leaving you to figure your own place out on your own without patting you on the head and spoiling the prize.

See the search for God in heaven’s a bit like a scavenger hunt. There are clues. There are lists of what to do. And there are things to go and dig out and find. And the closer to winning the round you get, the harder it is to find the last pieces.

Now this game goes on until you die and your points get tallied. But if God comes down from where he’s judging everyone else and sort of gives you an automatic win? Well that’s plain cheating. That would sort of put you two leaps ahead of everyone else who’ve made it so far without that.

And at the same time that would invalidate all your gains too. Because you’d be outside of faith in all of that. Your motives would be a whole lot blurrier. Even to you.

So try to not look at this like an abandonment issue. You’re out there playing your heart out on the hardball pitch and your dad isn’t coming down from the stands to help you catch the pop fly’s. But that doesn’t mean he’s not still up there watching and rooting for you. It just means there are rules to this game. And it needs to be played in a fair way in order for the win to count.

Peace TCC. I hope you work your way though this in time.

-Trident

 

[TheCuriousCat]

So, you’re mad at God because you failed to recognize you needed Him?
Or because He didn’t seem to “fix” your problems?

God IS all knowing. He knows that there is a spark of faith in you and He’s patiently waiting.
Now is the time. You’re here, asking.
Ask these same questions of a parish priest. Listen, meditate on what he says, and be open to the Holy Spirit answering your questions for yourself, because none of us can tell you. We’re strangers. All I know is, is that anger never made anyone happy But love, freely given, often does.

God bless you today, and always.

I’m not mad at God. I don’t believe in God. If there were a God, I would be mad. At the very least I would be confused.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

God gave you sufficient grace to hold onto your faith in Him against the temptation of losing it. It was, in the end, your choice. It wasn’t God’s fault.

Relying on a “code phrase” is not very safe. Someone could say this code phrase but their religion could be completely false.

He demonstrably didn’t.

It is a very obscure phrase.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

Hi TheCuriousCat,

Thanks for your post. You raise good points that are really important to the discussion of the existence of God.

There is a key assumption you have made that I believe is false. You will not burn in Hell for all eternity for losing your faith. If someone ends up in Hell, they do so because their own conscience damns them. Of course, I cannot speak for your conscience, so I won’t. If your conscience tells you there is no God then you will not be damned for not believing in Him. As long as you live a morally good life in line with you conscience, and inform your conscience then you have nothing to fear. Remember to always seek the truth with the willingness to admit you could be wrong. I have found that when a person has an open and humble mind, they naturally tend to gravitate towards the truth because they are open to changing themselves to seek it and live it.

I hope you find this helpful! Feel free to post back anytime!

Thanks for saying I am not going to burn in hell. It is oddly comforting.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

Why does the fact that you did not get what you wanted mean that God is not all knowing?
Sounds like a major logical failure - non sequitur.

Was what you wanted really good for you? How do you know?

If God is all knowing, he had the knowledge that I would lose my faith, and the knowledge of how to prevent it. That means that God either didn’t want to or couldn’t stop me. He has, it is claimed, intervened for other people. Ergo, the only explanation if God is all knowing and all powerful is that he didn’t want me to believe.

 

[PraiseChrist]

You should see this video by Catholic Answers’ video, about 7 minutes:

catholic.com/video/why-would-god-create-someone-knowing-they-will-go-to-hell

You should also read the lives of St. Therese of the Child Jesus (who underwent severe doubts and severe temptations to atheism), and Servant of God Marcel Van (a spiritual brother of St. Therese, who died under communist captivity)​

“What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy” (Romans 9: 14-15)

Remember that God Himself IS love.

 

[PraiseChrist]

You should see this video by Catholic Answers’ video, about 7 minutes:

catholic.com/video/why-would-god-create-someone-knowing-they-will-go-to-hell

You should also read the lives of St. Therese of the Child Jesus (who underwent severe doubts and severe temptations to atheism), and Servant of God Marcel Van (a spiritual brother of St. Therese, who died under communist captivity)​

“What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy” (Romans 9: 14-15)

 

[Della]

If God is all knowing, he had the knowledge that I would lose my faith, and the knowledge of how to prevent it. That means that God either didn’t want to or couldn’t stop me. He has, it is claimed, intervened for other people. Ergo, the only explanation if God is all knowing and all powerful is that he didn’t want me to believe.

God didn’t want to stop you from leaving the faith–he didn’t have to do anything with regards to your actions and decisions. He tried you in the crucible, and you wanted him to solve the problem, but he doesn’t do that. He wants us to solve the problem, while acknowledging that we might fail at it. But that’s a good thing. Now you know that God isn’t going to hold your hand all your life. He expects us to grow up and realize that he is God and we aren’t. It’s really that simple.

Micah 6:8 You have been told, O man, what is good, and what the LORD requires of you: Only to do right and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with your God.

 

[Cheiron]

If there is a God, and God is all knowing, he knew that I was going to stop believing in him. He knew that I was going to grow up, struggle for decades with my faith, and lose it. He also knew exactly what would have convinced me to keep believing.

He knew the problem, he knew the solution, and he knew my breaking point, but all he did (if he exists) was sit back and watch. Ignoring the notion that he plans to burn me in hell for all eternity for losing my faith, he knew how painful that whole process was.

Yes, I know, you are all ready to type “free will” into a message, but it doesn’t wash. Either he violates other people’s free will to their benefit, or what people think are miracles don’t exist.

In case you are thinking, “Nothing would convince you.” There is a code phrase that I have decided on that I will embrace the faith of whoever uses it. So, if you feel moved to tell me some strange nonsequiter, please don’t hold back.

This is the first time I’ve heard someone say he or she will become a member of a faith if someone says a particular code phrase. I wonder what the logic behind that is. On the surface, it sounds very irrational. Also, why not include secular worldviews?

 

[PraiseChrist]

As a priest of the Fraternity of St. Peter told me,

“God didn’t create us to torture us, and then damn us to Hell” (paraphrased)

 

[TheCuriousCat]

This is the first time I’ve heard someone say he or she will become a member of a faith if someone says a particular code phrase. I wonder what the logic behind that is. On the surface, it sounds very irrational. Also, why not include secular worldviews?

People seem weirdly caught up on that.

There is a phrase that only I know. To figure out this phrase you would either need to be ridiculously lucky, or able to access my mind without me knowing about it.

An extremely talented conartist might get it out of me without my knowing, but it is pretty unlikely. If God wants me to know something, he merely has to get the messenger to use the code.

 

[Strydersroom]

If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

/Rush Rules

 

[stardustgazer]

This is the very same question I have just started to ask myself. It’s quite complicated, but on theological terms it seems to be a clear contradiction. (Which is a shame as if it could be solved, theism would win immediatelly.) Basically, the situation is as follows.

We have a doctrine (that is confirmed quite clearly in the Bible so it’s not just a fabrication to walk around) that states men have freedom, and are left to their own guidance. The whole concept of messiah and God’s constant wish for our repentance (especially in the case when God himself states he doesn’t wish us to die) goes to show that man is free to act and can choose God or reject him. God wishes all humans to be saved, but leaves each one to choose his path.

However, there is also a doctrine (just as well backed up by the scriptures) that states God knows everything, everything is a part of his plan and with his providence he chooses everything that happens. This tells us that God has already determined what’s gonna happen before he created us. He already knew who’d sin and who’d obey his laws.

This leads us to 2 scenarios:
(1) God knows people who disbelieve will continue to do so, but still decides to send prophets, requires coverts and chooses to sacrifice himself even though he knows in advance some people will not repent. This would entail that God only did this stuff for the select few while purposely leaving some lost.
It would also mean that he lied when he said man was free as he already sketched all the choices in advance and left man with only an illusion of being free. (For while we may think we’re choosing option A over opetion B, God already decided we’d choose option A therefore we will necessarily choose it.)

(2) God truly wishes all people to be saved, leaves us with freedom to accept him, but at the price of that he doesn’t control everything (as he left us to freely choose what we do, therefore losing his providence) and since he doesn’t know who will do what (as this is necessary for free will) he isn’t omniscient.

Either way, there are doctrines that are false. In the first scenario we have a theological disaster in which God is a crazed lunatic who does things contrary to his own will, but at the same time willingly.

In case of (2), we have a better case with a moral and caring God, but one who chooses to give up some of his influence on the world to truly give meaning to man’s choices, thus rendering the idea of this life being a test actually meaningull.

Can anyone help with this question? It’s a crisis of faith for me, which is a shame since as soon as we’ve got these contradictions sorted out, we would already win the debate of whether there is or isn’t God. All or nothing guys, help please.