If God is unchangeable, then how could there be a beginning in time?

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Freddy said:
Imagine me doing all the loving things for my wife that she expects. Imagine a lifetime of love. And then imagine me telling her that I don’t emotionally feel love. It’s just that I ‘will the good for her.’ That I always want to do everything that I can for her and I want her to love me. But I personally have no sense of that emotion whatsoever.

That’s truly horrifying.
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That’s some Lovecraftian Horror right there. Haha.

I have a couple things for you Freddy.
  1. There are actually people out there who don’t feel emotions. This is where I would give you a link to a YouTube video but I’m currently living in a dystopia where YouTube is blocked. But I can give you the search parameters.
There is a video made by a former Atheist who describes his journey to Christianity. This is a man who feels no emotions is highly intelligent diagnosed psychopath with a doctorate in philosophy and some other degrees.

I would pay 5 dollars to hear your thoughts on it. I would send it through PayPal. 100% serious. He also did some other videos on Atheism would love to hear your thoughts on a debate he did with an Atheist named Michael Shurmer. Not sure if you know who he is. Anyways 5 bucks. Lol
  1. You seem to be forgetting that there is a much easier way to knowing God. Jesus. The Son 2nd person of the Trinity came to Earth. He loved, he suffered, he made friends, he showed compassion, he healed, he comforted, and he sacrificed. If you want to know what kind of personality God has just look at Jesus of Nazareth.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
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Freddy:
Imagine me doing all the loving things for my wife that she expects. Imagine a lifetime of love. And then imagine me telling her that I don’t emotionally feel love. It’s just that I ‘will the good for her.’ That I always want to do everything that I can for her and I want her to love me. But I personally have no sense of that emotion whatsoever.

That’s truly horrifying.
Click to expand...
That’s some Lovecraftian Horror right there. Haha.

I have a couple things for you Freddy.
  1. There are actually people out there who don’t feel emotions. This is where I would give you a link to a YouTube video but I’m currently living in a dystopia where YouTube is blocked. But I can give you the search parameters.
There is a video made by a former Atheist who describes his journey to Christianity. This is a man who feels no emotions is highly intelligent diagnosed psychopath with a doctorate in philosophy and some other degrees.

I would pay 5 dollars to hear your thoughts on it. I would send it through PayPal. 100% serious. He also did some other videos on Atheism would love to hear your thoughts on a debate he did with an Atheist named Michael Shurmer. Not sure if you know who he is. Anyways 5 bucks. Lol
  1. You seem to be forgetting that there is a much easier way to knowing God. Jesus. The Son 2nd person of the Trinity came to Earth. He loved, he suffered, he made friends, he showed compassion, he healed, he comforted, and he sacrificed. If you want to know what kind of personality God has just look at Jesus of Nazareth.
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Shermer is someone who made the trip in the oposite direction. I’ve read and listened to a lot of what he has to say. I believe that he’s the founder of the Skeptics Society. But I wouldn’t believe everything I read…

And Jesus certainly had all the attributes of an emotional man. But God seems not to. According to some, that is. There appear to be as many ideas of what God actually is as there are people describing Him. Even in the same thread. It’s even the same person describing Him differently on times.
 
The video is titled:

Why I Am a Christian (David Wood former Atheist Conversion Testimony)

Offer still stands. Lol. Probably the only chance I’ll ever get to hear the opinion of a wise master like yourself on this item. Like I told you in PM you are the only atheist I converse with regularly and so your opinions have novelty value to me never hear anything like it anywhere else and with CAF closing down soon it’s a real bummer.
Freddy said:
And Jesus certainly had all the attributes of an emotional man. But God seems not to. According to some, that is. There appear to be as many ideas of what God actually is as there are people describing Him. Even in the same thread. It’s even the same person describing Him differently on times.
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But Jesus is God. He claimed to be God and backed it up with his miracles and resurrection. The problem it seems to me is that people are trying to describe God the Father. We’re talking about an entity beyond the human mind’s ability to grasp. An entity that could create and destroy the entire universe with a mere thought. But! If you truly want to know who God is in a way that humans can understand is to look at Jesus. The 2nd person of the Holy Trinity.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
The video is titled:

Why I Am a Christian (David Wood former Atheist Conversion Testimony)

Offer still stands. Lol. Probably the only chance I’ll ever get to hear the opinion of a wise master like yourself on this item.
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OK, Duke. It’s nearly beer o’clock. So I’ll get myself a cold one and watch his video. S’only about 30 mintues or so in any case. I’ll report back.
 
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lelinator said:
If you designate something as being outside of something else, then you’ve given it a spatial coordinate. If it has a spatial coordinate, then it’s in space.
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Then being outside of time is possible
Freddy said:
But I personally have no sense of that emotion whatsoever.

That’s truly horrifying.
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Then you wouldn’t love her when you don’t feel that emotion. You could also then claim to love as long as the emotion is present regardless of what you actually do.
 
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StudentMI said:
What about the Baptist God who doesn’t look kindly on intercession of saints?
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They don’t believe in salvation by works, so you could probably still be saved the same way they are. There is no concept of mortal sin either so it would be like just another sin.
 
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Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
The video is titled:

Why I Am a Christian (David Wood former Atheist Conversion Testimony)
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What was the offer? Five bucks? Well you owe that to the next person you see who needs it. Tell him or her that it’s from Freddy.

And for that fiver he had to sit through 30 minutes of some guy telling us why he’s a Christian. Some guy who wan’t a borderline psychopath but must have been clinically diagnosed as actually psychopathic.

Some guy who from a very early age exhibited a near total lack of empathy and showed zero concern for the death of friends, couldn’t feel any sympathy watching his mother being beaten by her boyfriend and was hearing voices that told him to kill. Voices that caused him to all but strangle a childhood friend, make plans to make pipe bombs to randomly kill - because if we are the results of random choice then why not, there is no right or wrong. And who beat his father nearly to death with a hammer.

Who spent two terms in a mental hospital. And then found Jesus. Based on three reasons.

First, the argument from design. Although he shows no indication that he understands it. Secondly that the disciples wouldn’t have died for a lie - a rather simplistic version which makes me think he hadn’t felt the need to delve any deeper into that, so it must be true (I guess he must have been out of town during 9/11) And how could he find meaning in a meaningless world without…Jesus.

The End.

If that guy wakes up one morning and doubts his belief, you better hope you don’t cross his path. A truly psychotic, dangerous man.
 
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StudentMI said:
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Duke12VonFalkenburg:
But Jesus is God. He claimed to be God and backed it up with his miracles and resurrection.
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Correction: years later there were reports of his miracles and resurrection in written manuscripts.
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All written in incredible detail with verbatim reports.
 
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All inspired by the Holy Spirit. With differing details and missing parts that seem pretty dang important.
 
StudentMI said:
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Duke12VonFalkenburg:
But Jesus is God. He claimed to be God and backed it up with his miracles and resurrection.
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Correction: years later there were reports of his miracles and resurrection in written manuscripts.
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Correction of the correction: there were oral tellings of his miracles and resurrection when they happened. These were spread throughout the community. They were later written down.
StudentMI said:
All inspired by the Holy Spirit. With differing details and missing parts that seem pretty dang important.
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“Important”, depending on your conflation of present-day genres of literature and those of the 1st century in Palestine. Clearly, they fit the bill for the standards of the day.
 
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IWantGod said:
When you are shown evidence you choose to ignore it
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Lest you hadn’t noticed, this applies to everyone…even you. And it’s not so much that people ignore the evidence, as it is that they find the evidence unconvincing, and your passionate defense of it fits quite nicely into their preexisting worldview.

A worldview which would seem to be quite understandable.

It’s a worldview that recognizes that the world is full of people, and groups, and religions, and political parties, all with their own unique version of the truth. And all of them absolutely certain that they’re right. Now within this cacophony of seemingly irrational voices, you want us to believe that yours is the only sane one. Why? Because unlike them, you have “evidence” that proves that you’re right. Well how could anyone be so foolish as to dismiss that? Maybe because you look and sound just like every other religious zealot that has ever claimed to possess a unique insight into the divine.

Well, sorry. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
IWantGod said:
so what possible value does evidence have
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The value is relative to the objectivity of the person evaluating it. And in the case of most religious zealots, that doesn’t bode well for the conclusion.
 
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Exactly!

I don’t care HOW God did it; plus, if He explained it to me I probably wouldn’t understand the intricasies of it all, and I’d be like, “Uh huh”… But of course with a big, goofy smile on my face… LOL!

He doesn’t have to explain Himself to me, in order for me to appreciate all He’s done for us! Happy 3rd day of Christmas to our King, btw :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
 
God always existed…

Even since BEFORE He created time. Which He decided to be Born in as One of us, which is why He has a Birthday IN TIME.

And as He explained (if I’m recalling correctly) to St. Birgitta of Sweden, He did what He did here on earth the way He did it, so (among other things that we are aware of) no one can say that God does not know what it is like to be a Man Who has suffered. Cuz He did, so He does.
 
The world CHANGED due to man’s disobedience, which introduced the consequences of sin into the world…which includes natures sometimes destructive…nature.
 
Freddy said:
What was the offer? Five bucks? Well you owe that to the next person you see who needs it. Tell him or her that it’s from Freddy.
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Haha well you never disappoint. Haha. Sorry, you must have rolled your eyes so many times while watching. In any case, i watch this video I think to myself this shows the power of faith and of course Jesus himself. Being able to transform even the most broken men. David may have had a troubled past but he certainly had a bright future. He got himself a PHD in Philosophy, became a member of the society of Christian philosophers, Evangelical Philosophical Society, and participated in over 50 debates.

I’m sure he understands the argument from design but of course the point of the video was his personal story not an apologetics video focused on the design argument.

Just curious… As an atheist how do you find meaning? I mean if nothing you do or say matters. Why not do whatever you want with the short time you have left? Why not be a murderer or a hedonist?

Thanks for watching! I’d offer you another video but I’m sure you are a busy man. “Scooby Doo and the Skeptics Dilemma” (Summary of his debate with Dr. Michael Shurmer)
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
Just curious… As an atheist how do you find meaning? I mean if nothing you do or say matters. Why not do whatever you want with the short time you have left?
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Nothing ultimately matters. My life and my wife’s and my children’s and my g’kids and my friends’…thay all matter.
 
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