If heaven is so much better, why do we cling so much to this life?

[MysticMissMisty]

No. We groan because of the effects of mortality on our beings; not because of a desire to be dead.

ICXC NIKA

I don’t know about you, but I try to take an optimistic view of this life. I mean, yes, the negative effects of mortality are bad, but I don’t spend my time lamenting and groaning over them all the time. To be honest, I don’t know if I spend even any time “groaning” (being that upset) over them.

Indeed, if I do not do this, am I thinking wrongly about/receiving life wrongly? Should I groan about these things? After all, it is an inspired text and Paul is arguably stating something that is right for us to do? Though, honestly, I really wonder if there were even that many people both within and/or without the Christian community that “groaned” (got that upset) over our mortality. As I understand it, most people both today and during Paul’s time, have taken it in stride, save for maybe when it causes severe injury/disability.

 

[fhansen]

The resurrection, our guarantee of continued and, hopefully, eternal life, takes the “sting” off death; it doesn’t remove the pain altogether.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

Because we were not intended to die. We die because we fell, but we were designed not to die at all. That God now raises us after we die to an even better position does not change the evil of death. We still have a purpose here, which affects how we will be in the next (more important) life.

This life is here for a reason. In it we grow, come to know God, and help others to do the same. We prepare ourselves to see God face to face, and make our choices influencing what will happen when that does. The second life is a continuation of the first. While the second part is indeed more important, the first leads up to the second and affects how we enter.

The next life, being eternal, is indeed more important, which is one of the reasons why we ought to live this life in a ways that is helpful to the next. There are three reasons why taking the life of another is still evil that come to mind: it violates the principle that we are meant to live now and have purpose here (as mentioned) and so is wrong in itself (so it is a sin); in ignoring our purpose now, we dispose ourselves to ignoring purposes in general (so it damages us and makes us even more disposed to sin, as sin does); and we can’t know that the other person is in a state of grace.

Perhaps the victim will be happier, perhaps not; but even if he will be, the ends don’t justify the means. We were not just put on this earth as a hold over until we finally die and go to heaven, we are here to grow as people, make our choices, and basically become who we decide to be. To cut that short is an offense against the very nature of what it is to be human.

The salvation of those who die before being able to reason, why generally thought to be pretty likely, is not actually assured. But even if it were, the same answer above applies: the earthly part of our existence is here for a reason, and that child was unjustly deprived of it. Will things be better that way, for them or for the world? There is no way we could know, but either way they are still deprived of the good of an earthly life, and their purpose within it.

Similar to the above, except we’re murdering ourself.

Again, I just don’t see the logic in saying that the sole and only purpose of this life is to grow spiritually. Yes, surely that is a purpose and a most noble one, but what of all the goods in this life? What are we to do with them? Are they only a means to an end or are they, as I have argued, also to be enjoyed in themselves (within reason – CHristian principle)?

 

[MysticMissMisty]

The next life is just a continuation of this life. This is the only life we’re given and all life/existence is a matter of God’s will-He put us here- and therefore important. And He put us here for a reason, ultimately to come to know and love Him to the greatest extent we can without the benefit of “seeing” Him " face to face"-and to help others do the same. We have a purpose while we’re here.

But, isn’t His Love manifest in the Good that He does for us, both materially and otherwise? So, we love Him by loving (within reason – Christian principle) this world that He created for us to enjoy? Yes, we love Him for who He is, for His Goodness, but His Goodness is also manifest in the good things that He gives us in this life, I would argue.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

God gave us earthly lives for a reason; they should not be treated with scorn or derision, as if they are just an unfortunate obstacle.

There are two extremes that we should avoid. Worldliness is the obvious one. Focusing only on what we can see and touch without regard to the spiritual is an easily recognizable vice. Most Christians are at least conscious of this as a problem, even if we fall into it.

The more subtle one is the rejection of the earthly life as something to be ashamed of or as some evil that unfortunately befell us, rather than a gift from God. He created us as body and soul, not one or the other. Treating our earthly life with disdain tells God that He was wrong to create us this way. This is more subtle a vice than worldliness because it doesn’t feel as wrong; it appears to be the correct way of opposing the worldliness which confronts us all the time.

Taking care of our bodies, defending the earthly lives of others, and making sure that we use what we are given to the fullest extent of our ability for as long as we can in service to God, while being aware that this is not the only life and refusing to worship it as a god itself is the correct middle approach.

Agree with you ENTIRELY here.

Still, what of the problematic passages I’ve been citing throughout my posts which would seem to suggest otherwise? (see my various posts above)

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Again, I just don’t see the logic in saying that the sole and only purpose of this life is to grow spiritually. Yes, surely that is a purpose and a most noble one, but what of all the goods in this life? What are we to do with them? Are they only a means to an end or are they, as I have argued, also to be enjoyed in themselves (within reason – CHristian principle)?

I did not mean to imply that the goods in this life were not important. They are in fact good - God created the material world to be good, and our lives here are good. I was emphasizing the relationship of this life to the next, but again we were not intended to die, and there is much good here and now. Focusing on it to the detriment of the next life is unwise, but that doesn’t mean it has to be eschewed altogether.

 

[fhansen]

But, isn’t His Love manifest in the Good that He does for us, both materially and otherwise? So, we love Him by loving (within reason – Christian principle) this world that He created for us to enjoy? Yes, we love Him for who He is, for His Goodness, but His Goodness is also manifest in the good things that He gives us in this life, I would argue.

Yes, but the goods here, as good as they are, are insufficient to satisfy us in any kind of long-term manner-way insufficient. We’re here to experience or to know of His goodness-to taste of it-through the things He creates, but also to cultivate an awareness that those things only point to something greater, something missing, made all the more clear by the evils and suffering that we also face is this relatively godless exile from Him. Man was made for God, and we cannot be satisfied until we’re fully united with Him.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

Yes, but the goods here, as good as they are, are insufficient to satisfy us in any kind of long-term manner-way insufficient. We’re here to experience or to know of His goodness-to taste of it-through the things He creates, but also to cultivate an awareness that those things only point to something greater, something missing, made all the more clear by the evils and suffering that we also face is this relatively godless exile from Him. Man was made for God, and we cannot be satisfied until we’re fully united with Him.

Precisely what I pointed out. Goods are, indeed, nothing without relationship, neither in terms of man to man nor in terms of man to God. I agree with this.

Still, the goods that He created for us must have some satisfaction in themselves, else why would He have created them for us to enjoy?

Yes, they manifestly point to a Loving Creator, but that surely is not their sole and only purpose, else God surely could have found another way to point us to that Love without creating distractions for us in the enjoyment of what He has set before us.

All right. I realize I just sounded like I contradicted myself there…

I suppose what I mean is that, things in and of themselves are, in some sense, vain, as they simply delight the individual and that only for a temporary moment in time. However, there is some delight in them, though, arguably, the true delight comes in realizing from whom they come. The true delight is in relationship that is made manifest through the gift, whether that be our relationship with God or with other people who may give us various gifts at various times.

Also, without God, there is (arguably truly and essentially) no meaning in things. God, as Being and True Meaning, imbues things with their meaning. So, yes, things, in and of themselves, without God, are, as the writer of Ecclesiastes would say, “vanity” and “a chasing after the wind”.

Still, I don’t think that means that things are not (if properly) to be enjoyed in this life.

 

[fhansen]

Precisely what I pointed out. Goods are, indeed, nothing without relationship, neither in terms of man to man nor in terms of man to God. I agree with this.

Still, the goods that He created for us must have some satisfaction in themselves, else why would He have created them for us to enjoy?

Yes, they manifestly point to a Loving Creator, but that surely is not their sole and only purpose, else God surely could have found another way to point us to that Love without creating distractions for us in the enjoyment of what He has set before us.

All right. I realize I just sounded like I contradicted myself there…

I suppose what I mean is that, things in and of themselves are, in some sense, vain, as they simply delight the individual and that only for a temporary moment in time. However, there is some delight in them, though, arguably, the true delight comes in realizing from whom they come. The true delight is in relationship that is made manifest through the gift, whether that be our relationship with God or with other people who may give us various gifts at various times.

Also, without God, there is (arguably truly and essentially) no meaning in things. God, as Being and True Meaning, imbues things with their meaning. So, yes, things, in and of themselves, without God, are, as the writer of Ecclesiastes would say, “vanity” and “a chasing after the wind”.

Still, I don’t think that means that things are not (if properly) to be enjoyed in this life.

Right, they just easily become idols for us-ends in themselves- with dissatisfaction the ultimate result. They’re good-just not good enough if that’s all we were to have. The disobedience of Adam led to humankind looking for happiness/satisfaction in all places other than God. We taste that outcome here every day in one manner or another. Our goal consists of a journey out of that mentality-and back to Him.

 

[GEddie]

I don’t know about you, but I try to take an optimistic view of this life. I mean, yes, the negative effects of mortality are bad, but I don’t spend my time lamenting and groaning over them all the time. To be honest, I don’t know if I spend even any time “groaning” (being that upset) over them.

Indeed, if I do not do this, am I thinking wrongly about/receiving life wrongly? Should I groan about these things? After all, it is an inspired text and Paul is arguably stating something that is right for us to do? Though, honestly, I really wonder if there were even that many people both within and/or without the Christian community that “groaned” (got that upset) over our mortality. As I understand it, most people both today and during Paul’s time, have taken it in stride, save for maybe when it causes severe injury/disability.

I think the groaning is automatic and literal; if you don’t presently have negative sensations in your embodiment that lead to you groaning, you will in time. We are not supposed to groan, per se, but unless we die young it will happen.

And I for one don’t understand why everybody doesn’t scream in terror at the prospect of being dead.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[BobCatholic]

If we are told repeatedly in Sacred Scripture and elsewhere that heaven is to be so much better than this earthly life, then why do we cling so much to this life?

Bird in the hand (mortal life) versus two in the bush (eternal life)

vs

Dog with bone in mouth (mortal life) seeing his reflection in a pond (heaven) - to grab that bone u gotta let gone of the bone in the mouth (give up life to save it)

Then there’s the catch - have no choice but to “cling to this life” because suicide is forbidden.

If suicide wasn’t a mortal sin, how many people would bother to stick around? We’d have tons of people offing themselves to go to heaven.

 

[fhansen]

Bird in the hand (mortal life) versus two in the bush (eternal life)

vs

Dog with bone in mouth (mortal life) seeing his reflection in a pond (heaven) - to grab that bone u gotta let gone of the bone in the mouth (give up life to save it)

Then there’s the catch - have no choice but to “cling to this life” because suicide is forbidden.

If suicide wasn’t a mortal sin, how many people would bother to stick around? We’d have tons of people offing themselves to go to heaven.

I’m not sure about that. As strong as faith can be, death is still a big step -into the unknown. It would be wrong to want to cease existing-and death will always hold that over us as an uncertainty.

 

[HelenRose]

The simple answer may just be, because God has given us life here and now and we are meant to love it. If we can not love this precious life that has been given to us, how can we be sure that we will appreciate what is to come.

Time and time again throughout the scriptures we are taught, “Thou shall to kill.” Human life is precious to God and therefore must be precious to us as well.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

As people age, many of them are willing “to go” whenever God calls them. When you think about what befalls people it is understandable.

Older people sometimes lose their independence.They cannot always walk or do things. Life becomes a burden. That is why you hear of some elderly people over in Belgium or other countries arranging for assisted suicide.

One elderly woman, age 74, decided to make this decision while still lucid enough to do so. Her kids had already informed her they could not help her if she became disabled. She wanted to go while still able to live a normal life. Can’t say I blame her. But that isn’t what God wants, and that is why many people do not request assisted suicide.

It is the only thing that keeps their souls in their bodies.

By the way, anyone who is extremely overweight should be aware that if they choose cremation, there will be black smoke coming out of the chimney. I am always reminded of death when I pass a local crematory. Their chimney loves to smoke!

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Again, I just don’t see the logic in saying that the sole and only purpose of this life is to grow spiritually. Yes, surely that is a purpose and a most noble one, but what of all the goods in this life? What are we to do with them? Are they only a means to an end or are they, as I have argued, also to be enjoyed in themselves (within reason – CHristian principle)?

Enjoying things in themselves are part of the means to the end and are part of growth. Merely not all of it. Hoping that helps!

 

[Peebo]

I think it might be natural instinct we have learned over eons of time…the need to survive…even animals have a learned instinct of what animals to fear…but they probably don’t have the concept of death as humans do…we fear and fight against death because it goes against our survival instinct…of course there have been martyrs and others of exceptional faith who overcome that fear through faith…and some who might be in terrible pain might wish it to end…as do some elderly who perhaps have seen their loved ones die and hope to go and be with them…even in todays world there is so much emphasis on living longer through diet…exercise…people are trying to deny the concept of death…that we are all mortal…and to fear it probably even more than in generations past…how many falter in their faith when confronted with their imminent mortality…it’s something we’ll all have to face and pray that we’ll meet our Savior when we do pass from this life

 

[mikekle]

Im terribly frightened of dying, I do believe in God and have as much faith as I can, but still, I dont know for SURE, that is whats scary, when you are at deaths door, you KNOW for a fact, you are going somewhere where you have never been and its likely going to be MUCH MUCH different than what we are used to, then religion sinks in…what if I was wrong, what if we were all wrong and we were duped…GEEZ, what can I do about it…NOTHING, nothing at all, you are going and have no choice in the matter…wherever you ‘wake up’ next is the place you will be for eternity, I dont care how much faith someone has, that is going to be SCARY for anyone!

I hate thinking about this.

 

[fhansen]

Im terribly frightened of dying, I do believe in God and have as much faith as I can, but still, I dont know for SURE, that is whats scary, when you are at deaths door, you KNOW for a fact, you are going somewhere where you have never been and its likely going to be MUCH MUCH different than what we are used to, then religion sinks in…what if I was wrong, what if we were all wrong and we were duped…GEEZ, what can I do about it…NOTHING, nothing at all, you are going and have **no choice in the matter…wherever you ‘wake up’ next is the place you will be for eternity, I dont care how much faith someone has, that is going to be SCARY for anyone!

I hate thinking about this.

If it helps at all I’ve heard it attested by those who’ve allegedly been given a “glimpse” of God, bathed in His presence, that the experience was, among other things, like finally being home-to the fullest degree, to a degree they never could’ve conceived of. Absolute and total sense of well-being, peace. This Being was almost strangely familiar, as in family, more so than our earthly family.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

If it helps at all I’ve heard it attested by those who’ve allegedly been given a “glimpse” of God, bathed in His presence, that the experience was, among other things, like finally being home-to the fullest degree, to a degree they never could’ve conceived of. Absolute and total sense of well-being, peace. This Being was almost strangely familiar, as in family, more so than our earthly family.

I think it as returning to a place where we were before. We lose consciousness every day of our lives when we sleep, At least one third of our lives is spent in a nether world.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Humans are both material and spiritual. They have a material aspect – they have material bodies and live in a material world. But they also have a spiritual aspect to them – they have a mind and a soul that can reason concepts that exist beyond the constraints of the material world. Thus, a pitfall to being fully human is when a person chooses to ignore one of those aspects, and to develop only one or the other. This results in him becomes something less than fully human. For instance, if a person develops only his material side then he becomes materialistic. The drive for material goods becomes excessive. And the person lives only for material things like money, cars, or sex. The deeper spiritual meaning to life is lost. And, in the end he is still left unsatisfied and not fully human. On the other hand if he develops only the spiritual side of himself then he can become overly intellectual and spiritual, secluding himself from the world, while being blinded to the material and charitable needs of those around him, becoming uncaring to their needs, and thus avoiding any responsibilities to society. This too fails to satisfy him and keeps him from becoming fully human. Thus, choosing to ignore and not develop an important human aspect of himself leaves a person less than fully human