If I am saved by faith alone, why do I need to read the Bible?

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Rightlydivide said:
Wrong. There is assurance of salvation.

Some people are wrong. There is no way around that. No matter what you believe about anything in terms of theological beliefs. Someone, somewhere, thinks beyond a shadow of a doubt they are right but they are not. Someone on the other hand is right and knows it. Some get eternal life. Some get eternal hell. I don’t make the rules here. Its in the Bible.
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So there are those who think they are saved but actually are not.

This sounds to me, frankly, like no one has assurance of salvation, then.

For what would distinguish a person who truly is saved from someone who thinks he’s saved but isn’t? How would the person know to which category he belongs?
 
1voice said:
All have sinned and fall short.
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Well, not all.

Clearly, you believe there are exceptions, 1voice, unless you believe that a 15 month old baby has sinned?

Or a boy with Down syndrome?

Or a woman who has global developmental delays?
 
PRmerger said:
So there are those who think they are saved but actually are not.This sounds to me, frankly, like no one has assurance of salvation, then.

For what would distinguish a person who truly is saved from someone who thinks he’s saved but isn’t? How would the person know to which category he belongs?
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1st John 5 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,

John says you may know that you have eternal life. What does this passage mean to you or your church? There are others we could discuss but lets stick with this one.
 
Rightlydivide said:
1st John 5 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,

John says you may know that you have eternal life. What does this passage mean to you or your church? There are others we could discuss but lets stick with this one.
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This is a non-sequitur.

If there are those who think that they are saved, but are really not, how does one know which category he falls in?

It would seem that there is no such thing as assurance of salvation.

Is there a way to distinguish who is one of those poor suckers who thinks he’s assured of heaven but, sadly, is destined for hell instead?
 
PRmerger said:
This is a non-sequitur.

If there are those who think that they are saved, but are really not, how does one know which category he falls in?

It would seem that there is no such thing as assurance of salvation.

Is there a way to distinguish who is one of those poor suckers who thinks he’s assured of heaven but, sadly, is destined for hell instead?
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Why is it a non-sequitur specifically?
 
Rightlydivide said:
Why is it a non-sequitur specifically?
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It’s a non-sequitur because, while true and all Catholics give a hearty Amen! to 1 John 5, it does not follow (Latin: non-sequitur)

Specifically, it is a non-sequitur because it doesn’t answer my question:

For what would distinguish a person who truly is saved from someone who thinks he’s saved but isn’t? How would the person know to which category he belongs?
 
Rightlydivide said:
Wrong. There is assurance of salvation.

Some people are wrong. There is no way around that. No matter what you believe about anything in terms of theological beliefs. Someone, somewhere, thinks beyond a shadow of a doubt they are right but they are not. Someone on the other hand is right and knows it. Some get eternal life. Some get eternal hell. I don’t make the rules here. Its in the Bible.
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This question of the “faux believer” brings to mind an amusing exchange I read between apologist John Martignoni and a non-Catholic Christian:

Every believer in once saved always saved that I have ever met, also believes that there are those out there who think they are saved, but really are not – the faux believers, as I call them. So, ask anyone who believes in OSAS these questions (this is from an actual conversation):

Question: Are there people who think they’re saved, but they really aren’t?

Answer: Yes, there are.

Question: Are you saved?

Answer: Yes, I am.

Question: How do you know you’re not one of those people who think they’re saved, but they really aren’t?

Answer: I know in my heart that I am saved.

Question: Wouldn’t someone who thinks they’re saved, but really aren’t saved, say the same thing?

Answer: I suppose so.

Question: Then how do you know you’re really saved?

Answer: I just know.

Question: How do you know?

Answer: I just do.

The whole point of this line of questioning is that, if it is possible to think you’re saved, but not really be saved, then no one can have eternal security – no one can know for sure that they are saved – because anyone who thinks they’re saved could actually be one of those who think they are but really aren’t.

Indeed, there is not a single soul out in the OSAS world that believes he’s a faux believer. But he believes that there’s lots of *other *hapless folks who are these faux believers.

Curious that, statistically, it’s always the other guy who’s a faux believer. :hmmm:
 
PRmerger said:
It’s a non-sequitur because, while true and all Catholics give a hearty Amen! to 1 John 5, it does not follow (Latin: non-sequitur)

Specifically, it is a non-sequitur because it doesn’t answer my question:

For what would distinguish a person who truly is saved from someone who thinks he’s saved but isn’t? How would the person know to which category he belongs?
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But that is the second question in the series. Do we agree that someone can know they are saved like John wrote? IF we agree, then we can go onto the second question about how to know. Sure we may differ on the how we know but why have that conversation if we don’t agree on the first? First things first. I think you are putting the cart before the horse. I do not know a Latin phrase for that however…
 
How would he or she know? Let me ask you ma’am, how do you know you have been saved as a Catholic or should I say as a Christian (more appropriately as not to offend any of the Orthodox Christian brethren on this forum)? Can you say for sure PRMerger that you are saved through the blood of Christ? Yes or no answer please. No diversions please. Do you consider yourself saved or not or maybe unsure.

May God bless you ma’am.

Ed
 
Rightlydivide said:
But that is the second question in the series. Do we agree that someone can know they are saved like John wrote?
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I think your error lies in equating eternal life with being saved. 1 John 5 does not mention being “saved” but rather “eternal life”. *“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,”
*
Do you have a Scripture verse that says that when one has eternal life he is guaranteed a spot in heaven?

See how Catholics understand what eternal life is:

[BIBLEDRB]John 17:3[/BIBLEDRB]

So unless you can provide a verse that says eternal life means one is guaranteed a spot in heaven, then you are following a man-made, non-Scriptural tradition that you’ve simply believed because another fallible man taught you that.
IF we agree, then we can go onto the second question about how to know. Sure we may differ on the how we know but why have that conversation if we don’t agree on the first?
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Huh? How do you distinguish whether you’re a true believer or a faux believer?
First things first. I think you are putting the cart before the horse. I do not know a Latin phrase for that however…
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😃
 
ronin67 said:
How would he or she know? Let me ask you ma’am, how do you know you have been saved as a Catholic or should I say as a Christian (more appropriately as not to offend any of the Orthodox Christian brethren on this forum)? Can you say for sure PRMerger that you are saved through the blood of Christ? Yes or no answer please. No diversions please. Do you consider yourself saved or not or maybe unsure.

May God bless you ma’am.

Ed
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There is no “yes or no” answer to the question, “Are you saved?”

Firstly, you are saved when you die. Period.

Secondly, I do not judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but that does not mean I am acquitted. It is the Lord Who judges me.
 
Yes, there is an answer. Have you or have you not repented of your sins and accepted God’s grace and put your trust 100% in Jesus Christ?

May God Bless you ma’am and help you through this confusion.

Ed
 
Though one may honestly “believe” they are “Saved” and proclaim this in confidence. The words of Christ on the Cross come to mind immediatly. “Father why have you foresaken me”.

So when one states I am “saved” I am skeptical. One cannot be saved till in fact they are saved. And anyone walking on this physical plain is not saved but could only be working toward the goal.
 
That is a very Catholic answer, but that is not a biblical answer. So no Catholic can say that they have put there trust in Jesus and are saved? Mind you, no one said you wouldn’t fall short and sin, but if you do you will return and repent. You will never fall away from Christ if you are truly saved by the blood of Christ. Are you doubting yourself?

Ed
 
“Mind you, no one said you wouldn’t fall short and sin,”

This is the problem with stating “I AM SAVED”. Its definitive and infinitive.

We strive to live in a perpetual state of grace through the Sacrements of the Church. The constant teaching is “Faith, Hope, Love and Penance”. There are many indications one is on the path of Salvation, but Saved is Gods final judgement.
 
GaryTaylor said:
“Mind you, no one said you wouldn’t fall short and sin,”

This is the problem with stating “I AM SAVED”. Its definitive and infinitive.

We strive to live in a perpetual state of grace through the Sacrements of the Church. The constant teaching is “Faith, Hope, Love and Penance”. There are many indications one is on the path of Salvation, but Saved is Gods final judgement.
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OK, how about: Romans 10:9???:confused:

Evidently that doesn’t mean anything to Catholics??? 😦
 
We are saved by one thing, and it is not our faith. We are saved by the Grace of God, and by him giving us that Grace we acquire faith, And with this Grace combined with Faith and using this faith to do the word of Christ we are on our way to Salvation.

But the problem is to keep living our faith, and not throwing away that grace which we all do in sin. All we can do is pray, confess our sin, live out our faith and Continue to PRAY FOR GRACE To be able to stay away from sin.

It all comes down to the Mercy of GOd, it has nothing in the world to do with our faith. If our faiths saves us them we do not need God, we did it ourself.

It is the mercy and Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ that saves us. Without his grace we would and be NOTHING.

We are not filty rags, Our dear Lord has cleansed us with his Body and Blood and through our Baptism we are washed clean. It is our sin that we fall from grace and it is the death of our Lord that redeems us once again.

We are the most precious think to our Lord, he has counted every hair on our head. He loves us unconditionally.
 
ronin67 said:
OK, how about: Romans 10:9???:confused:

Evidently that doesn’t mean anything to Catholics??? 😦
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Yes you are quite confused I agree.

You show me where scripture state that the ONLY thing we have to do is believe. What about what St Peter said REPENT and Confess your sins. We HAVE to do that too.

What about the ten commandments US CATHOLICS have to do those and ALSO believe.

THe devil believes that Jesus is the SOn of God and was crucified and died on the cross, he saw it with his own eyes. Is he getting in. I will make a deal with you, you show me where he is getting in, Because HE DOES BELIEVE, and YOU WIN!!
 
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