If I am saved by faith alone, why do I need to read the Bible?

[1voice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1voice
No one comes to the Father unless the Holy Spirit draws him/her.
The Scriptures are inspired by the HS.

But if you were starting from your personal Experience, you don’t know that the above is true.

Who made me? … God made me.
Why did God make me? God made me to know him and live him.

Christianity is first and foremost a relationship with God. That is a personal experience …

When God speaks … I know it.

 

[PRmerger]

When God speaks … I know it.

Really? You would know, just by your feeling, what it is that God speaks?

Does your feeling tell you that “My breath is offensive to my wife” is God speaking?

What about “Be appalled at this, O heavens, and shudder with great horror,” declares the LORD."

Or “Saul went into a cave to relieve himself”.

Or "I will go and do what the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”

Does your feeling tell you one way or the other what’s theopneustos? Or does your feeling tell you to search Fr. Google to discern whether the above verses are God speaking or not?

 

[ddarko]

Who made me? … God made me.
Why did God make me? God made me to know him and live him.

Christianity is first and foremost a relationship with God. That is a personal experience …

When God speaks … I know it.

But that is THEOLOGY.

Dude, do you get my point or what? Before you come to THEOLOGY, you first need to GET ALL THE FACTS.

But you skipped most of them. You went from personal experience directly to the Bible. Loads of stuff is missing.

And now you are sitting there telling me Bible quotes and Bible interpretations. What am I to do?

Please, answer rationally. Don’t give me biblical quotes. That proves nothing here. You FIRST must arrive at the BIBLE using REASON.

God Bless

 

[1voice]

But that is THEOLOGY.

Dude, do you get my point or what? Before you come to THEOLOGY, you first need to GET ALL THE FACTS.

But you skipped most of them. You went from personal experience directly to the Bible. Loads of stuff is missing.

And now you are sitting there telling me Bible quotes and Bible interpretations. What am I to do?

Please, answer rationally. Don’t give me biblical quotes. That proves nothing here. You FIRST must arrive at the BIBLE using REASON.

God Bless

God places his word above his name … that means his word is good.

I am commanded to study/ apply his word to show myself approved.

In my studies of that good word … I discovered that I can “be transformed by the renewing of my mind by the washing of God’s word”.

It may prove nothing to you … thats fine.

I treated it like a chemistry formula. God created the formula … I followed the steps … I got results.

You think I put the cart before the horse.

Well … I let the horse lead for 25 years.

My experience… in the first 25 years of my life … as I described above … I never ever knew anyone that had a living real vibrant true personal fellowship … on a daily basis … with my savior… or that could pray for me or anyone else and expect healing … or anything else. … I was chided and told that I was on the verge of the sin of presumption … and I needed to stand down. I was told when I asked … that’s a mystery … or that was for then … and now its different … or … stop dreaming … this is reality … live with your spinal arthritis … suffering is good for you… here put on this neck brace.

My life was Catholics … Catholic school … Catholic friends … I was an altar boy that knew the latin responses … Huge extended Catholic family … Novenas, Stations of the Cross on a weekly basis in Lent … Confirmation, Communion … Ad Altare Dei …

None of that gave me relief … in fact it got worse with every passing year.

Finally … out of sheer agony and desperation I said … God … I refuse to live like this. If there is a way to reach you and get healed … I will find it … whatever it takes.

All those people in my life thought I was nuts. … Now they ask me to pray for them.

God’s word is good.

 

[ddarko]

God places his word above his name … that means his word is good.

I am commanded to study/ apply his word to show myself approved.

How do you know that you were commanded?

How do you know where his word is?

These are the questions I am asking and you are repeating theology to me. Please Please I am pleading with you here. Do you not understand what I am asking?

In my studies of that good word … I discovered that I can “be transformed by the renewing of my mind by the washing of God’s word”.

Sigh. This is still all theology.

It may prove nothing to you … thats fine.

How is it fine?

I am seeing someone destroy their life just like your Conspiracy friend. The difference is that your friend is stuck on conspiracies and you are stuck on pseudo-Christianity.

I am trying to help you here dude.

I treated it like a chemistry formula. God created the formula … I followed the steps … I got results.

My question to you is, how did you FIND the God created formula?

You think I put the cart before the horse.

I think you forgot all about HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE CART.

Well … I let the horse lead for 25 years.

Yes, because you forgot/never bothered at all about how you arrived at the CART or the HORSE.

I am here pleading with you to start thinking about that.

My experience… in the first 25 years of my life … as I described above … I never ever knew anyone that had a living real vibrant true personal fellowship … on a daily basis … with my savior… or that could pray for me or anyone else and expect healing … or anything else. … I was chided and told that I was on the verge of the sin of presumption … and I needed to stand down. I was told when I asked … that’s a mystery … or that was for then … and now its different … or … stop dreaming … this is reality … live with your spinal arthritis … suffering is good for you… here put on this neck brace.

Why are you telling me all of this?

It is impossible to go from GREATEST MIRACLE CURE using logical inference to the BIBLE is the Word of God. Why are you so naive?

This is why people in other religions also have miracles happen to them. You are making it sound like you are the only denomination on the planet with miracles.

My life was Catholics … Catholic school … Catholic friends … I was an altar boy that knew the latin responses … Huge extended Catholic family … Novenas, Stations of the Cross on a weekly basis in Lent … Confirmation, Communion … Ad Altare Dei …

None of that gave me relief … in fact it got worse with every passing year.

Because YOU were the problem.

Christ was the savior of the world but at the same time, he got the Pharisees condemned.

Religion is NOT a personal preference. It is either the truth or a lie. If its the truth, whether its hard for you, or you don’t feel good following it, YOU STILL FOLLOW IT.

GET IT?

Finally … out of sheer agony and desperation I said … God … I refuse to live like this. If there is a way to reach you and get healed … I will find it … whatever it takes.

Did it ever cross your mind to tell God that “Please HELP me understand you”?

Did it ever occur to you that you were in the right church but your desire for some emotional high lead you away from the Church?

All those people in my life thought I was nuts. … Now they ask me to pray for them.

I don’t think you are nuts. But I think you are trying pretty hard to get there.

God’s word is good.

When it is in the right hands and interpreted properly.
Otherwise, it can lead to blood shed and a whole lot of BAD.

If this is your argument my friend and you think you are being very rational, then I can’t help you.
If this is your position my friend and you think it DOES NOT EVEN NEED TO BE RATIONAL, then I can’t help you either.

So sorry, but I really hope you find your way out of this mess. You can PM me anytime when you want to honestly talk.

God Bless

 

[1voice]

Did it ever occur to you that you were in the right church but your desire for some emotional high lead you away from the Church?

I had absolutely no interest in an emotional … anything.
My body was broken and needed fixing. The doctors and the people around me provided no relief. The relationship with Jesus was the way that I found what I desperately needed. When I got healed … It was a very emotional experience … trust me
… If the emotional part is a problem for you… I cant help you there … take it up with the one that created emotions.

I don’t think you are nuts. But I think you are trying pretty hard to get there.

… Thats pretty much what I heard from the ones that couldnt answer my questions.

… No matter … Im healed.

 

[ddarko]

I had absolutely no interest in an emotional … anything.
My body was broken and needed fixing. The doctors and the people around me provided no relief. The relationship with Jesus was the way that I found what I desperately needed. When I got healed … It was a very emotional experience … trust me
… If the emotional part is a problem for you… I cant help you there … take it up with the one that created emotions.

… Thats pretty much what I heard from the ones that couldnt answer my questions.

… No matter … Im healed.

Try and explain to any person with a moderate intelligence, how you went from

1. your miraculous HEALING

to

1. The Bible is the word of God

using logical rules of inference.

My point to you, is that you have no such explanation. So you keep repeating the same personal experience babble. This might work for people who are just looking for something to believe like your conspiracy theorist but for people with some intelligence that is worthless.

So think about it.

Don’t be retarded now and reply with a Scripture verse.

God Bless

 

[PRmerger]

… No matter … Im healed.

God is indeed good!

Question: would you still be a Christian if you had not been healed?

 

[1voice]

How do you know that you were commanded?

How do you know where his word is?

These are the questions I am asking and you are repeating theology to me. Please Please I am pleading with you here. Do you not understand what I am asking?

Sigh. This is still all theology.

How is it fine?

I am seeing someone destroy their life just like your Conspiracy friend. The difference is that your friend is stuck on conspiracies and you are stuck on pseudo-Christianity.

I am trying to help you here dude.

My question to you is, how did you FIND the God created formula?

I think you forgot all about HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE CART.

Yes, because you forgot/never bothered at all about how you arrived at the CART or the HORSE.

I am here pleading with you to start thinking about that.

Why are you telling me all of this?

It is impossible to go from GREATEST MIRACLE CURE using logical inference to the BIBLE is the Word of God. Why are you so naive?

This is why people in other religions also have miracles happen to them. You are making it sound like you are the only denomination on the planet with miracles.

Because YOU were the problem.

Christ was the savior of the world but at the same time, he got the Pharisees condemned.

Religion is NOT a personal preference. It is either the truth or a lie. If its the truth, whether its hard for you, or you don’t feel good following it, YOU STILL FOLLOW IT.

GET IT?

Did it ever cross your mind to tell God that “Please HELP me understand you”?

Did it ever occur to you that you were in the right church but your desire for some emotional high lead you away from the Church?

I don’t think you are nuts. But I think you are trying pretty hard to get there.

When it is in the right hands and interpreted properly.
Otherwise, it can lead to blood shed and a whole lot of BAD.

If this is your argument my friend and you think you are being very rational, then I can’t help you.
If this is your position my friend and you think it DOES NOT EVEN NEED TO BE RATIONAL, then I can’t help you either.

So sorry, but I really hope you find your way out of this mess. You can PM me anytime when you want to honestly talk.

God Bless

So, to recap … I find healing in the presence of the Lord … and you tell me that I broke the rules … im irrational …and Im on the wrong path…

reminds me of the man that Jesus healed in front of the Sanhedrin … " I was blind … and now I see."

 

[ddarko]

So, to recap … I find healing in the presence of the Lord … and you tell me that I broke the rules … im irrational …and Im on the wrong path…

reminds me of the man that Jesus healed in front of the Sanhedrin … " I was blind … and now I see."

Nope.

Read again.

You found the healing presence of the Lord. So you have utmost reason to believe in him. Now you need to find out what he stands for and what he taught.

It is here that you jumped the track of rationality. You suddenly walked out with the Bible. You don’t know how you got there or whether that book is accurate in describing the Christ you are looking for. What you should have done is made your way using reason to the Bible. Then you would know some other important things that you MUST ALSO believe in because Christ wants you to.

Do you see what I am saying?

You are holding only half the picture.

God Bless

 

[CopticChristian]

God places his word above his name … that means his word is good.

I am commanded to study/ apply his word to show myself approved.

In my studies of that good word … I discovered that I can “be transformed by the renewing of my mind by the washing of God’s word”.

It may prove nothing to you … thats fine.

I treated it like a chemistry formula. God created the formula … I followed the steps … I got results.

You think I put the cart before the horse.

Well … I let the horse lead for 25 years.

My experience… in the first 25 years of my life … as I described above … I never ever knew anyone that had a living real vibrant true personal fellowship … on a daily basis … with my savior… or that could pray for me or anyone else and expect healing … or anything else. … I was chided and told that I was on the verge of the sin of presumption … and I needed to stand down. I was told when I asked … that’s a mystery … or that was for then … and now its different … or … stop dreaming … this is reality … live with your spinal arthritis … suffering is good for you… here put on this neck brace.

My life was Catholics … Catholic school … Catholic friends … I was an altar boy that knew the latin responses … Huge extended Catholic family … Novenas, Stations of the Cross on a weekly basis in Lent … Confirmation, Communion … Ad Altare Dei …

None of that gave me relief … in fact it got worse with every passing year.

Finally … out of sheer agony and desperation I said … God … I refuse to live like this. If there is a way to reach you and get healed … I will find it … whatever it takes.

All those people in my life thought I was nuts. … Now they ask me to pray for them.

God’s word is good.

Sounds like a life changing experience. May I ask, relief from what? Getting worse from what? Agony over what? Good that you can pray for others.

 

[CopticChristian]

How do you know that you were commanded?

How do you know where his word is?

These are the questions I am asking and you are repeating theology to me. Please Please I am pleading with you here. Do you not understand what I am asking?

Sigh. This is still all theology.

How is it fine?

I am seeing someone destroy their life just like your Conspiracy friend. The difference is that your friend is stuck on conspiracies and you are stuck on pseudo-Christianity.

I am trying to help you here dude.

My question to you is, how did you FIND the God created formula?

I think you forgot all about HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE CART.

Yes, because you forgot/never bothered at all about how you arrived at the CART or the HORSE.

I am here pleading with you to start thinking about that.

Why are you telling me all of this?

It is impossible to go from GREATEST MIRACLE CURE using logical inference to the BIBLE is the Word of God. Why are you so naive?

This is why people in other religions also have miracles happen to them. You are making it sound like you are the only denomination on the planet with miracles.

Because YOU were the problem.

Christ was the savior of the world but at the same time, he got the Pharisees condemned.

Religion is NOT a personal preference. It is either the truth or a lie. If its the truth, whether its hard for you, or you don’t feel good following it, YOU STILL FOLLOW IT.

GET IT?

Did it ever cross your mind to tell God that “Please HELP me understand you”?

Did it ever occur to you that you were in the right church but your desire for some emotional high lead you away from the Church?

I don’t think you are nuts. But I think you are trying pretty hard to get there.

When it is in the right hands and interpreted properly.
Otherwise, it can lead to blood shed and a whole lot of BAD.

If this is your argument my friend and you think you are being very rational, then I can’t help you.
If this is your position my friend and you think it DOES NOT EVEN NEED TO BE RATIONAL, then I can’t help you either.

So sorry, but I really hope you find your way out of this mess. You can PM me anytime when you want to honestly talk.

God Bless

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1voice
All those people in my life thought I was nuts. … Now they ask me to pray for them.

I don’t think you are nuts. But I think you are trying pretty hard to get there.

I do not know lots about your dialogues. It sounds like it is difficult. I offer one admonition. When someone publically states that they were in agony, suffering, it would be prudent to consider that questioning the status of their mind and the direction it is going, is not charitable, not practical and could be harmful. I am direct. I have no problem confronting someones thoughts. I do object to suggesting to someone that they are going nuts (insane, unstable, crazy, psychotic). This I find objectionable.

These are your thoughts. These are your opinions. I believe that some reflection would be in order. I agree with the God Bless.

We are all dying, are we not? Our minds are growing decripid, are they not? I like to imagine the poor soul, sitting in the wheel chair, drooling, unable to speak, disheveled, filled with stench and unapproachable. I imagine that that person had parents, loved them, and perhaps that is how God sees us.

 

[JonNC]

Many of the envangelizing Protestants have no catechism. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church catechizes and as you are aware there is a history of catechumens. In other words you are taught about what you are about to commit to before you commit.

**Protestant theology is not necessarily **written down formally for the novice Protestant. The Protestant does this.

To put an exclamation point on the “not necessarily”.

www.bookofconcord.org

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

To put an exclamation point on the “not necessarily”.

www.bookofconcord.org

Jon

The words many, most is not all. I declared that this may not apply to Lutherans in particular in other posts.

Many of the envangelizing Protestants have no catechism. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church catechizes and as you are aware there is a history of catechumens. In other words you are taught about what you are about to commit to before you commit.

Protestant theology is not necessarily written down formally for the novice Protestant. The Protestant does this.

Many! have no catechism, means some do.

Protestant theology is not necessarily written down formally! for the novice, many have no catechism, some do.

You have provided evidence for my Many and not necessarily.

Thank you

 

[JonNC]

The words many, most is not all. I declared that this may not apply to Lutherans in particular in other posts.

Many! have no catechism, means some do.

Protestant theology is not necessarily written down formally! for the novice, many have no catechism, some do.

You have provided evidence for my Many and not necessarily.
Thank you

Yes. Not for you, as I know you understand, but for others who might not. And thanks for the “many” and “not necessarily”. I do appreciate it.

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

Hello everyone! I have been reading these forums for a while now but this is my first time posting. This is kind of intimidating especially since I am only 20 and some of the people here are much older and have much more knowledge and experience than I do. Anyway, I go to a non denominational evangelical church. I decided to post on this specific topic because I was actually thinking about it when I woke up this morning.

I The thing is, that little prayer isn’t enough. After you do that you need to let Christ work on your life. **You have to be born again **- you have to be a new person. You can’t live the same life that you were living.

That is when the works show that you are a Christian. You aren’t doing the works to prove to God you have faith in him because God doesn’t need proof.** He knows what is in you heart and if you are a faithful servant or not.** The works are to glorify God so that through your works others can come to know Christ.

Now, if someone says they accepted Christ cus they said a little prayer but go on living the life that they once lived, and do nothing that shows that they are a follower of Christ, then of course by their works it will show that they aren’t saved.

The Bible is necessary because it tells us how to live our lives. Like I said, you can’t just say you are saved and not live the way Christ did, or not follow the commandments.

This is what I have learned from my Church and the school that I go to which is a Christian College. I know my view on this is different from others, but I just wanted to show that even though some people view it that way not everyone does. Thank you

Kristin 234,

Your post suggests many things that cause me to wonder. Protestant theology teaches that you must be regenerated/born again to have Faith that saves. Your formula states that after the saving Faith, the confession or prayer, that being born again follows. What you are stating is what is called Sanctification by the works or to be set apart. You state that God knows your heart and this is an allusion to Calvinistic predestination. If God knows your heart then he knows whether you are saved or not. Your concept of works states that it is a proof to others that you are a Christian. Many people have good works including Mormons that you, I believe, would disqualify from being a Christian.

Yes, your view is different.

 

[rinnie]

… LOL! … another theological rabbit trail…
In my experience
The Holy Spirit is not limited to religion. He operates very effectively both within and with out religious tradition. " in the last days I will pour out my Spirit on ALL flesh"

… the Holy Spirit left the Temple in Jerusalem (the center of religious tradition) and took up residence in the hearts of those that obeyed Jesus command to wait. He will do the same for anyone that waits … any time … anywhere. … I have seen it. … with signs ( tongues, conviction of sin, prophecy, interpretation, miracles, love abounding …) …signs following … the same as Pentecost.

… rinnie, I have, on a regular basis for 40 years, (as I describe above) seen the Holy Spirit move on people to heal and restore in amazing ways … simply by acknowledging that Jesus is Lord and following the instructions in the Bible… no matter what background or denomination they come from… in my experience… denomination has nothing to do with the operation and the love of God through the Holy Spirit… Absolutely nothing.

Then lvoice we have a big problem. First of all the Holy Spirit came to the Catholic Church on the day of Pentecost.

You are saying the Holy Spirit left the Church, now we got a bigger problem. Jesus promised us he would send the advocate the Holy Spirit to lead the Church UNTIL the end of age. Now you are in direct conflict with the word of GOd. Thats a problem.

What does the Holy Spirit working on us, outside of the CHURCH also, have to do with it leaving the Church. I showed you the scripture that states the HS will never leave the Church, and Christ also said he will never leave us orphans. Are you saying he did

The Holy Spirit is alive and well in the Church and in the world, you will get no argument out of me about that. BUT where did Christ ever say that he would leave us orphans and he would NOT be with the Church until the end of age.

You need to show me that teaching. If you cannot you need to examine yourself and wonder where this false teaching is comming from.

 

[rinnie]

No one comes to the Father unless the Holy Spirit draws him/her.
The Scriptures are inspired by the HS.

The HS is more than able to keep us from falling and present us unstained at God’s glorious throne … at the same time free will is never removed from the equasion … we all have the same ability to make choices that Adam had…
I have been associated with what you would classify as ‘Protestants’ for over 4 decades … I never met even one that believed you can repent / get saved … and then skate. ‘Faith alone’ … means total dependence on the promises of God written down in the Scripture (Sola Scriptura) beginning with personal repentance and renouncing the old life … right on through to walking the streets of gold.

And how do we do what that scripture tells us. It say to hold fast to all you have been taught either by word of mouth or written.

How do you get Sacred Scripture that has not been written down? Where is Sacred Tradition? Or do you reject Sacred Tradition and just accept Sacred Scripture. If so how do you reject one part of the sentence and accept the other? Surely you cannot say the Holy Spirit led you to accept only part. so who is the blame?

 

[SteveGC]

Nope.

Read again.

You found the healing presence of the Lord. So you have utmost reason to believe in him. Now you need to find out what he stands for and what he taught.

It is here that you jumped the track of rationality. You suddenly walked out with the Bible. You don’t know how you got there or whether that book is accurate in describing the Christ you are looking for. What you should have done is made your way using reason to the Bible. Then you would know some other important things that you MUST ALSO believe in because Christ wants you to.

Do you see what I am saying?

You are holding only half the picture.

God Bless

ddarko, I understand where you’re trying to blaze a trail of logic here. I do. But here’s the inherent difficulty…

If I’m reading the posts correctly, (and I may not be) 1voice himself indicated that personal experience was not first. The Bible was. He was obviously introduced to the Bible through the Church as a Catholic, and (presuming he was one of the many poorly catechized and fed by the Church over the past 40 years), he felt compelled to search the scriptures more thoroughly outside the Church. Unfortunate that he had to leave to do this, but alas, such is the state of affairs for so many who were poorly formed and/or were themselves lukewarm in their zeal for growth in the faith. I personally believe that God has used the non-Catholic Christian world to hold his sheep from straying too far from the flock when the earthly shepherds have occasionally failed to keep them within the fold (but I digress).

Nevertheless, the Bible is where he began. Based on his understanding (what he was taught) about Scripture, he met and began to follow Jesus (likely more fully than he had as a Catholic). Through prayer and petitions, he experienced miracles in his life.

It is logical therefore for him to attribute the efficacy of his faith in Christ to the Bible, since this is where he began, and his submission to Him in prayer confirmed it in him. Your point should be well taken, however…that the origins of the Bible (and Christianity for that matter) are the most important “next step”, as you say. But nevertheless, I think 1voice’s reasoning is that the Bible came first, not the personal experience. And I doubt that the miracles were absolutely necessary for him to attribute the Bible as the final authority, based on what he learned outside the Church.

On the other hand, I think you should realize that you are actually also using Scripture to make your points of logic. You are rightly claiming that following the apostles is key. But you allude to scripture to show why this is true, which is the same approach you deny 1voice. You have told him many times that Christ instituted the Church and appointed men to lead it. All true. But this is in Scripture. Or, atleast you aren’t alluding to the fact that it is found elsewhere.

If you are going to appeal to the need for others to look beyond Scripture, you have to also not make references that have their origins within it. Does that make sense? You have to show that history reveals the Church’s origins and use those instances to correlate truths found within Scripture. I myself tried to do this for 1voice in post #391 (quotes from Irenaeus). But this post was skipped over and not responded to. Oh well.

I beg your pardon if I am misunderstanding your line of logic, but this is just what it seems to me. The only thing I want to point out to you is that for 1voice, and the vast majority of non-Catholic Christians everywhere, the Bible came first.

Peace to both you and 1voice.

 

[rinnie]

So, to recap … I find healing in the presence of the Lord … and you tell me that I broke the rules … im irrational …and Im on the wrong path…

reminds me of the man that Jesus healed in front of the Sanhedrin … " I was blind … and now I see."

lvoice, got a question for you. My brother got a brain tumor at the age of 39. He was healthy as a horse. Went to the Dr with a headache and learned he had a year to live.

I prayed, I prayed more then anyone could ever think. My Dad lived in Church, served mass every single day for the previous 20 years. He prayed the rosary everyday of his life, he helped others, did it all, read the bible every day etc.

We all prayed but God took my brother anyway. Were our prayers not enough, was our faith not strong enough. do you feel if I asked you at the time to pray for him that anything would have changed.

Do you see my point here. No matter how much faith we have in God sometimes GOD says NO. I learned that the hard way.

Guess what, my Dad continued to pray every single day, serve mass. read the bible until God took him home 3 years ago.

What I am trying to tell you is this, IF you pray for something and it is the WILL of God you will have your prayers answered. If you pray and it is not the WILL of God you will not get the result you want.

But if you have true faith, you will learn as I have learned the HARD HARD way. That when I say thy kingdom come THY WILL BE DONE on earth as it is in heaven, Those words came alive and gave me true meaning the day I buried my baby brother.

What my point is, NO ONE will overpower God, When I pray I have learned to say Dear God please hear my plea, and if it is NOT your will, please help me to accept you will.

I pray everyday for GRACE that My will will be GODS will. not Gods will to be my will.