If I am saved by faith alone, why do I need to read the Bible?

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SteveVH said:
Yes, pick the exceptions…
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I did. You’re the one who said there was no salvation in the OT, my friend, and clearly, there was.
SteveVH said:
You are absolutely right and so I’m sure you have no problem with the assumption of Mary, body and soul, into heaven and the Catholic doctrine of the “communion of saints”.
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And I’m certain you have no problem with the pre-tribulational rapture of the church.
SteveVH said:
Yes…
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Thank you, that’s all I was after.
SteveVH said:
The OT only makes sense in light of the NT.
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That’s not what Paul’s telling Timothy.
SteveVH said:
The prophesies contained in the OT are now clear. The typology that exists througout the Old Testament concerning Christ becomes evident only when read in the context of the New Testament. So yes, everything in the OT points to Christ, but that was hidden until Christ came. So yes, it makes plenty of sense. Sorry I wasn’t clearer.
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OK.
SteveVH said:
No one has said that the OT does not contain wisdom and yes this wisdom should lead one to Christ, but that doesn’t mean that it is sufficient. You can lead a horse to water, providing there is water to which he can be led. It is Christ that is necessary and He is not revealed until the NT, therefore the NT is necessary.
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OK.
 
WCH said:
I did. You’re the one who said there was no salvation in the OT, my friend, and clearly, there was.
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And these were clearly exceptions to the rule which do not prove your point. Christ is necessary and He is only fully revealed in the NT.
WCH said:
And I’m certain you have no problem with the pre-tribulational rapture of the church.
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Oh, we should start a thread on that one. 🙂
WCH said:
Thank you, that’s all I was after.
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Cute.
WCH said:
That’s not what Paul’s telling Timothy.
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Were they not both bellievers in Christ. Had they not heard the Gospel when Paul was speaking to Timothy? Could they not now see the whole story unfolded before them? Paul was a skilled scriptural scholar and he didn’t get it before Christ introduced Himself on the road to Damascus. In fact he took several years after this experience to ponder the scriptures after receiving this revelation. Only then did he begin to preach. So yes, I think this is exactly what Paul was telling Timothy.
 
PRmerger said:
And, yet, this is from the NT? :confused:

Does this not contradict your post here?
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Please explain to me how citing a verse from the NT concerning salvation contradicts a truth stated by the apostle Paul in 2 Tim 3;15?
 
WCH said:
Please explain to me how citing a verse from the NT concerning salvation contradicts a truth stated by the apostle Paul in 2 Tim 3;15?
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If the Old Testament is sufficient then there is no need for the New. Christ went to a lot of trouble for nothing.
 
SteveVH said:
And these were clearly exceptions to the rule which do not prove your point.
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My point is that I agree with what Paul says concerning the ability of the OT to give one the wisdom which leads to salvation through faith in Christ.

What the verses I cited prove is that you are wrong concerning the absence of salvation in the OT.
SteveVH said:
Oh, we should start a thread on that one.
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I’ll take that as a “no.”
SteveVH said:
Cute.
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Honestly, that’s all I was after.
SteveVH said:
Were they not both bellievers in Christ. Had they not heard the Gospel when Paul was speaking to Timothy? Could they not now see the whole story unfolded before them? Paul was a skilled scriptural scholar and he didn’t get it before Christ introduced Himself on the road to Damascus. In fact he took several years after this experience to ponder the scriptures after receiving this revelation. Only then did he begin to preach. So yes, I think this is exactly what Paul was telling Timothy.
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OK.
 
WCH said:
Please explain to me how citing a verse from the NT concerning salvation contradicts a truth stated by the apostle Paul in 2 Tim 3;15?
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It’s just rather curious that you would cite a NT verse regarding what’s needed for our salvation, and yet claim that the OT has “all that’s needed for salvation.”

Clearly, the OT needs the NT, or you wouldn’t have quoted from the NT, yes?

Just sayin’…🤷
 
WCH said:
Call on the name of the Lord (Rom 10:13).
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And yet even those who call out “Lord! Lord!” will not enter the kingdom?

Does one need to do something else, besides “call on the name of the Lord” to be saved? :yup:
 
WCH said:
My point is that I agree with what Paul says concerning the ability of the OT to give one the wisdom which leads to salvation through faith in Christ.
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So do I.
WCH said:
What the verses I cited prove is that you are wrong concerning the absence of salvation in the OT.
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Yes, I have already addressed that. You do not seem to want to address the rest of my remarks concerning that comment.
WCH said:
I’ll take that as a “no.”
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And you would be correct.
WCH said:
Honestly, that’s all I was after.
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But that is not all I offered. Why do you ignore the rest of the statement? This isn’t a court room where you can cut someone off at yes or no.

Peace! 👍
 
PRmerger said:
It’s just rather curious that you would cite a NT verse regarding what’s needed for our salvation, and yet claim that the OT has “all that’s needed for salvation.”
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Actually, 2 Tim 3:15 makes the claim that the OT is able to lead to one the salvation through faith in Christ; isn’t that correct?
PRmerger said:
Clearly, the OT needs the NT, or you wouldn’t have quoted from the NT, yes?

Just sayin’…🤷
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You’re not supporting your charge against me, as I asked you to do.

You called my referring you to a NT verse on salvation a contradiction of what Paul says in 2 Tim 3:15.

I"ve asked you to explain that, and you haven’t. If you can’t, then the charge is false, and I would hope you would say so, and retract your false charge.

Will you do either, or neither of those two things?
 
WCH said:
How does that answer my question?
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Because Paul was referring to the OT in the context of the revelation of Jesus, who is the New Testament. They could not understand it prior to the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.
 
WCH said:
Actually, 2 Tim 3:15 makes the claim that the OT is able to lead to one the salvation through faith in Christ; isn’t that correct?
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Amen!

However, that is quite different from your original proposal which was this:
Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Right. The OT has all that is needed to bring one to salvation. Don’t you believe that?
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If that were true, you would not be citing any NT verses. It is curious that you continue to cite the NT, in light of your original proposal.
You’re not supporting your charge against me, as I asked you to do.
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It’s just peculiar that you keep citing the NT. 🤷
[SIGN]Each time you cite the NT you are contradicting your original proposal, WHC.[/SIGN]
 
SteveVH said:
Because Paul was referring to the OT in the context of the revelation of Jesus, who is the New Testament. They could not understand it prior to the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.
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Still doesn’t answer the question, which is, How does my referring to a NT verse contradict 2 Tim 3:15?
 
PRmerger said:
Amen!

However, that is quite different from your original proposal which was this:

If that were true, you would not be citing any NT verses.
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Please explain to me how citing NT verses means that 2 Tim 3:15 isn’t true?
PRmerger said:
It is curious that you continue to cite the NT, in light of your original proposal.
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Why?
PRmerger said:
It’s just peculiar that you keep citing the NT. 🤷
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Why?
PRmerger said:
[SIGN]Each time you cite the NT you are contradicting your original proposal, WHC.[/SIGN]
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[Sign]How? [/sign]
 
WCH said:
Still doesn’t answer the question, which is, How does my referring to a NT verse contradict 2 Tim 3:15?
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Because you have stated that all you need is the OT.
WCH said:
The OT has all that is needed to bring one to salvation. Don’t you believe that?
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What is so hard to understand? If the OT is all we need then use it only? The fact that you don’t does contradict your position.
 
WCH said:
Please explain to me how citing NT verses means that 2 Tim 3:15 isn’t true?
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No one here is saying that 2 Tim 3:15 isn’t true, WHC. In fact, we heartily give it a 👍

We are in disagreement with your original proposal which was:
Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Right. The OT has all that is needed to bring one to salvation. Don’t you believe that?
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Do you rescind the above?

If not, then all of your future apologia need not contain any NT verses. (You will be reminded of this each and every time you attempt it. ;))
 
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