I highly doubt that you’ll find anything of the sort, now you may find something that alludes to outside of the church there is no salvation in the early Christian writings, but I am absolutely certain you will not find anything in early Christian writings that says explicitly that if you are not in communion with the pope of Rome you will go to hell, now one must remember that in the early Christian writings both east and west were unified, so the “church” being spoken of would be the unified church of east and west.
- Status
P
PilgrimMichelangelo
Guest
Please see this thread: Leavened and Unleavened bread for the Eucharist - #7 by Famulus
P
PilgrimMichelangelo
Guest
The Orthodox have a prophecy that before the advent of Anti-Christ the Jews will begin to convert en masse and accept Christ as Messiah. This one of the “signs of the times”. Our parish priest is a former New York Atheist Jew who converted to Orthodox Christianity. Similar stories are abounding. This 180 degree turn around on this issue of converting the Jews is one of failures of Nostra Aetate that is clearly outside of the perennial and constant teachings of the Catholic Church. There is no dual Covenant, but one Covenant fulfilled in Christ.
O
OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
I said it was Unam Sanctam, but your understanding is wrong. I even summarized it.
Huh? How can Bishops hold Robber Councils if they are successors to Apostles? God protects from heresy, not being ignorant.
No I never said that. Re-read my post. I simply said he accepted inerrancy of Rome. Saint Maximus did not say that Rome is correct and hence he will be on their side- he specifically made points where Rome can not err and he even likened them to Angels of Heaven sinning- and as we know, Angels chose “once and for all”. They do not change their wills and hence fallen Angels sin and Angels of Heaven do not. It is as impossible.
No, Papal Supremacy was not what Eastern Saints affirmed, at least not in a sense you seem to view it. I am not talking about “supreme and immediate jurisdiction”, I am talking about inerrancy of Rome being supported by Early Fathers. St. George the Hagiorite clearly held that opinion as he professed it, and I am under impression St. Maximus the Confessor did as well.
There is much debate about this. Latin Church may have used leavened bread first, but East was not uniform in the practice. Apparently Armenians have used unleavened bread. Talking about “East” as unified in practices is not very correct- you can say Greeks (or Byzantine Rite to be more precise) used leavened bread, but I wouldn’t say entire East did. There is more to East than Byzantines.
They do, but their ecclesiology is closer to Catholic one than Eastern Orthodox one. They are much more hierarchically structured and while Bishops are, by virtue of their ordination, equal, Patriarch has direct power over his Archbishops and etc… and Pope of Alexandria holds real authority over entire communion. Something
O
OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
That would be bad, as that clearly goes against Catholic teaching too. If that exists I’d have to reconsider my religion…
There are however things that suggest communion with Peter is one of marks of the Church- and Early Church recognizes Peter’s authority to rest upon Pope of Rome. Inerrancy of Roman Church was also asserted very often. Read about St. George the Hagiorite, Georgian Monk who is regarded as Saint in Eastern Orthodoxy. He professed inerrancy of Rome before Emperor and Patriarch of Constantinople because he believed in it. This monk was in no way Western or Latin, and had practically no ties to Latin Church. He came to beg for Georgian independence to Constantinople (and won), so him taking this position is rather strange if that was not true belief.
Politics happened. Schisms and heresies split many Patriarchates into two, and then Byzantine Emperor trying to control Pentarchy split them into Greek and local ones.
On the other note, there is once-popular theory about Red Jews (some believed them to be Muslims) who will go and conquer the world and try to destroy Christian Religion. It was a popular medieval story, but I wouldn’t call it a prophecy. Your one sounds much better though!
The famed lavash bread of Armenians comes immediately to mind.
A
AlNg
Guest
So the Vatican is ignorant and you are not?
O
OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
I am saying that if Vatican wanted to stop evangelizing they would be ignorant.
Never claimed so. I am the most ignorant of all. Our Lord came to save the sinners of who I am the foremost.
A
AlNg
Guest
I showed you the headline saying Vatican: Catholics shouldn’t try to convert Jews and your comment was:
D
dochawk
Guest
welllllll . . .
In each case, a schism left two claimants.
The priest that came out for the Melkite outreach here (which unfortunately didn’t get a big enough following to continue) showed me a picture on the phone of all five posing together!
:crazy_face: 
Z
ziapueblo
Guest
This one?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
ZP
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
ZP
D
dochawk
Guest
likely; it’s been a year or so.
Z
ziapueblo
Guest
Patriarch Ignatius Aphrem II of Antioch and All the East has a pretty legit beard I must say. On point!
ZP
ZP
R
RyanBlack
Guest
Could you provide a source for this? I don’t think this is correct.
Which five patriarchs are these?
Z
ziapueblo
Guest
From left to right: Gregory III Laham Patriarch emeritus of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, Ignatius Aphrem II of Antioch of the Syriac Orthodox Church, John X of Antioch of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, Bechara Boutros al-Rahi of the Maronite Church, and Ignatius Joseph III Yonan of the Syriac Catholic Church
ZP
ZP
A
AlNg
Guest
What is the context of this picture? They are in a picture together, but did they pray together? Some Orthodox will tell you that it is wrong for an Orthodox Christian to pray with a heretic, i.e., a Catholic clergyman. Supposedly it is against the canons of the church for an Orthodox Christian to pray with a non-Orthodox Christian. However, they might add that it is OK for a non-Orthodox to pray with an Orthodox Christian. Further, some will express doubt about the Sacraments of the Catholics, so the priests may not be considered priests. Just as Roman Catholics do not recognize the Sacraments of the Anglicans, even the high Church Anglicans.
I
ioannes_pius
Guest
Not at all what I said. Relax dude.
O
OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Popes of Alexandria decided to form Etritean Church, which was under Ethiopia (lawfully and legally). It was outside their autocephalous Church and nobody called it uncanonical, decision was respected.
It is akin to what Ecumenical Patriarch did with Ukraine but he actually had a reason to doubt validity of Russian Churches claim to Ukrainan territory. On the other hand, Pope of Alexandria did not need that.
O
OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Nobody says that. Only God can judge that and it’s much more complicated.
St. Paul warns against Schism (break of communion), and Church is Ark of Salvation. It is much safer to be IN the Church Christ built than outside it… one He built on Peter for that matter.
- Status