"If it FEELS good, then it must be right." -Mormons

[ADouglass]

Any one want to refute this? Anyone want to support this? This is exaclty what Mormons are taught through the Book of Mormon, and their “prophets.” A form of this is the “burning in the bosom.” How do we know that this isn’t just Satan’s way of decieving us? He and his demons can after all appear as angels of light. No where in the Bible is a burning in he bosom a sign that something is true. Also, see my thread in the philosophy section for the origin of the title of this thread. It will shock you how blind the person is who I refute.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It is more than “if it feels good it must be right”. It is defining people’s feelings for them, telling them what their own feelings mean, what they don’t mean, and always telling people to strive to get the “right feeling”. That “right feeling” being defined by Mormon religious authority, and their teaching that if you don’t have the correct feeling, God has abandoned you, entirely.

A Mormon is not going for “if it feels good do it”, they are going for feeling how someone has told them they should feel.

You should feel creeped out at certain things and you should feel warm and fuzzy about others. If you are wondering what your feelings mean, you can ask your Mormon friends and they’ll give you advice on what to do or not do in order to get the right feeling going.

For prospective converts, this begins immediately, with Mormon missionaries teaching people that they should get a good feeling when they read their “Book of Mormon”. If they don’t, then they aren’t sincere enough, or they are praying incorrectly, or not really interested in being a righteous person.

Once into this religion, this defining of feelings continues for the person’s entire life.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Applying ones feelings or emotions in order to “sense” or make God present is an incredible phenomenon among non catholics, and dare I say among Catholic Charismatics.

God does not exist in a persons emotion, or from a person’s feelings. The former may be a result from the gift of faith, but these feelings of joy or goodness does not make God present.

Anyone can recieve a “good feeling” from any source of entertainment such as a movie or a live broadway play. Heck my dog, makes me feel good, when she is glad to see me each day. Emotions and feelings can come from deceptions, and can be motivated from unseen evils.

Faith on the other hand comes from “hearing and hearing the Word of God”, “Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and the evidence of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1).

Many non catholics have forsaken the “True presence of the Lord” for a good feeling decieving oneself that high on emotions makes God presence, mistaken ones feelings for the Holy Spirit and giving it a new name “spiritual” or “enlightened” which are two distinct characteristics.

The Holy Spirit is a person, not a feeling or an emotion. God revealed himself to Moses in the burning bush, in the cloud by day and fire by night, never from the emotions of joy or fear from Moses.

Today, Jesus reveals his True presence to us, in His Eucharist, with his body, blood, soul and divinity. One does not make God appear from emotions or feelings, God reveals himself by His own Word = made flesh, when the gifts of faith, joy, hope and love become the result which derive from the True presence of God, the former does not make God present.

Good feelings can come from any thing secular or worldly, and emotions does not make God present.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life.** No one ****comes to the Father except through me. **

In order to enter the True presence of God in Spirit and Truth, one must have the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus presence in order to enter the “holy of holies”, by one way, one truth, and one life in Jesus Christ. Jesus true presence in His “once and for all sacrifice” body and blood so that one can give thanksgiving = Eucharist to our Father in heaven.

Peace be with you

Deuteronomy 4:7
For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?

 

[JeanMichel]

Any one want to refute this? Anyone want to support this? This is exaclty what Mormons are taught through the Book of Mormon, and their “prophets.” A form of this is the “burning in the bosom.” How do we know that this isn’t just Satan’s way of decieving us? He and his demons can after all appear as angels of light. No where in the Bible is a burning in he bosom a sign that something is true. Also, see my thread in the philosophy section for the origin of the title of this thread. It will shock you how blind the person is who I refute.

A, how do you recognize when the Holy Spirit is present? Is it possible to recognize the presence of the Spirit? How does God communicate to us or answer prayers? Does he answer prayers in specific ways and never in others? How do we disdinguish between the 'real thing" and when it is a demon making us think it is God?

What should we understand about the resurrected Lord talking with two of his disciples on the way to Emmaus; as he explained the scriptures to them their hearts burned within them? It would seem like God does touch our hearts and that we feel them. Should we ignore all feelings or are there only specific feelings we should acknowledge and ignroe all others?

What we are not talking about is emotions as in liking our dog, enjoying a pizza, or seeing a good movie. These things have nothing to do with the feelings being discussed.

 

[stephe1987]

If a “feeling” takes you away from a faith and truth that has been known and passed down for 2,000 years, it makes me wonder what the source of that feeling is.

 

[JeanMichel]

If a “feeling” takes you away from a faith and truth that has been known and passed down for 2,000 years, it makes me wonder what the source of that feeling is.

This may be the right answer; however, from a philosophical point of view it presents problems. In this thread the criticism is that Mormon leadership taunts those who do not gain a belief in the Book of Mormon because they are not praying properly or are not righteous enough. Yet, what you may be proposing is the exact same logic. If you pray about the Catholic Church and don’t get the right answer then beware of your answer because it is probably coming from the wrong source.

Fundamentally, we come back to the same question, how do know when we are being guided by the Holy Spirit? It is a great topic.

 

[ParkerD]

This may be the right answer; however, from a philosophical point of view it presents problems. In this thread the criticism is that Mormon leadership taunts those who do not gain a belief in the Book of Mormon because they are not praying properly or are not righteous enough. Yet, what you may be proposing is the exact same logic. If you pray about the Catholic Church and don’t get the right answer then beware of your answer because it is probably coming from the wrong source.

Fundamentally, we come back to the same question, how do know when we are being guided by the Holy Spirit? It is a great topic.

JeanMichel,

It is clear based on the posts of several people conversing on other threads where I have participated, who have scorned the idea of a “burning in the heart” or a “burning in the bosom”, that this is not something that is taught very much to Catholics, or if it is it may be taught with such a large “grain of salt” that it would be like not teaching it at all because there must be complete sincerity, faith and righteous desires or the “burning in the bosom” will not come to a person. The level of doubt that I have seen expressed would explain why that is not a common experience.

Those folks having not experienced this, would logically scorn such an idea and rely on reasoning, the teachings they have understood and agreed with from the Bible, and tradition as the primary basis for their “faith”. It basically answers the question you had posed on the other thread, also.

Have a great week.

 

[Zenas]

No where in the Bible is a burning in he bosom a sign that something is true.

No so fast here.

They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” Luke 24:32

 

[rinnie]

This may be the right answer; however, from a philosophical point of view it presents problems. In this thread the criticism is that Mormon leadership taunts those who do not gain a belief in the Book of Mormon because they are not praying properly or are not righteous enough. Yet, what you may be proposing is the exact same logic. If you pray about the Catholic Church and don’t get the right answer then beware of your answer because it is probably coming from the wrong source.

Fundamentally, we come back to the same question, how do know when we are being guided by the Holy Spirit? It is a great topic.

How do we know the we are guided by the Holy Spirit? Well to begin with you have a inner spirit all of your own. You know deep down inside what is right and what is wrong.

Some choose to ignore it, usually when you have the urge to sin, or are in sin at the moment.

IF you listen, really listen to your conscience it will lead you, If you find you do not have one, you are in big trouble. You would not be one of God.

God speaks to your through your conscience, he leads you, he guides you, and he helps you live day to day. The more time you spend with him. the more free and at peace your conscience seems to be. The more you run from him, ignore his truth the more restless your conscience seems to be.

Bottom line, you can lie to me, I to you, I can even fool you, you can do the same to me, Uh but to ourself, it can’t be done. Oh we can try, but deep deep down, we know, and God knows we know. Because if we are one of his, he is leading us.

 

[rinnie]

By the way in the Catholic faith it is not true that our hearts are not on fire for Christ.

The Catholic faith teaches you are either HOT or Cold, you cannot be Lukewarm!! No in-between.

You are either with me, or you are against me.

You are either in sin, or free from sin.

You are either in the state of Grace, or not in the state of Grace.

 

[JeanMichel]

No so fast here.

Zenas, that was the scripture I was thinking about above. The burning heart, etc. is certainly taught in the Bible as a way of feeling when truth is taught.

I try not to be as direct when someone has misspoken or is not aware of what the Bible teaches clearly. Regardless, now that it has been cearly stated, ADouglass, what would you say now to condemn Mormons for their teaching of this principal and does the same condemnation work for us Catholics that strive to seek the Spirit?

 

[mark_a]

This is exaclty what Mormons are taught through the Book of Mormon, and their “prophets.” A form of this is the “burning in the bosom.”

I thought the Book of Mormon was the Mormon “bible”.

Anyways, from what I can gather the burning bosom feeling that is described can be a symptom of looking at a pretty girl, or getting a good review and nice raise, helping someone in need. . . . . .

Should I shop for a church until I get that burning bosom feeling? I can’t think of a worse way to go about searching for truth.

 

[pnewton]

“If it feels good, do it” This phrase, a paraphrase of the Mormon’s burning bosom is either an invitation to hedonism, a pitfall into heresy, or sound Catholic teaching on the need to follow one’s conscience, depending on the definition given the words.

First, “feel” if applied to sensation, is an invitation to hedonism. However, if by feel we really mean that we have an inate understanding, then we can consider that “good”, does not mean pleasurable, but morally good. So we have the two extreme definitions of this formulation. “If something is sensed as a pleasure, we should do it.” This is neither the Catholic teaching on the conscience or the Mormon teaching of a burning bosom. “If a thing is perceived as a moral good, then that we should do.” This is a good moral guideline. In fact, we seldom have little difficulty in discering what is right and wrong. Our difficulty is usually in having the fortitude to do good.

The problem with the Mormon burning, is that it relies on the predominence of feeling what is morally good instead of understanding what is morally good. God created Man as a being of reason. Many a good rock anthem gives one a burning in the bosom, until one considers the lyrics. Likewise, the Book of Mormon may sound all Churchish, more so when Joseph Smith wrote it in the King James style of the time, but if we can not reconcile this supposed Jewish migration and this Reformed Egyptian language with reality, then we need to move on. If we can not reconcile this with the history of the first generation Church, the person of Jesus and the Holy Bible, we need to move on.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t discount feelings entirely, but neither do I see that we are taught to run on feelings alone. To do either is not reasonable.

First, something must appear to you to have value. That is, that you are interested in it. If something holds no value to you, you don’t pay attention to it at all, let alone have feelings for it. We are rational creatures, created so by God. We can judge whether or not something has value. Or even if it should be of value to us.

So it is you can see that there are two things that influence feeling. Value and Reason. Feelings do not stand alone and shouldn’t. It is a fool who stands there, refusing to reason, or to judge whether something is of value.

The Holy Spirit is present to us in this way. Why would anyone think that the Holy Spirit can only speak to us through emotions?

Are we infallible? Certainly not. We will make mistakes. Go down the wrong path. Make a poor judgment. But if the process keeps going, that is we are always evaluating by judging and reason, praying for guidance, then we are open to being led to Truth.

When one closes oneself off from value and reason, and is using feeling alone, I propose you have given up your freedom to whomever or whatever can manipulate your feelings.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

What you have not mentioned from the Emmaus journey when the disciples hearts burned from hearing the Liturgy of the Word (all the scriptures Luke 24:27) is directly related from the “True presence” of Jesus in their midst. This does not get revealed until the Eucharist (breaking of bread) reveals the True presence of Jesus in their midst, is how they came to know Jesus in the breaking of bread when Jesus vanished from their sight.

One cannot seperate the Word of God from the Word of God made flesh, the two are inseperable.

Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures.
30
And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
31
With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight.
32
Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning (within us) while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?”
35
**Then the two recounted what had taken place on the way and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread. **
36
9 While they were still speaking about this, he stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
44
He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.”
45
Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

JeanMichel;7606444]What should we understand about the resurrected Lord talking with two of his disciples on the way to Emmaus; as he explained the scriptures to them their hearts burned within them? It would seem like God does touch our hearts and that we feel them. Should we ignore all feelings or are there only specific feelings we should acknowledge and ignroe all others?

I am glad you are able to make the distinction about “feelings” here, because the topic of feelings being directed from a bible reading can lead one to deceptions.

Truth is not base on ones feelings; There is only one who is good, and one who is Truth, if the good Lord, or the Truth = Jesus is not present, only your feelings leaves one in the bliss of the unknown.

We have not discussed the Catholic position yet, it is unfair to draw a Catholic position here when it has not been revealed yet. We are discussing “feelings”, thanks for your clarification. Can you explain what type of “Feeling” gives one the confidence “that it must be right”? Can one confuse “feelings” apart from “faith”?

What we are not talking about is emotions as in liking our dog, enjoying a pizza, or seeing a good movie. These things have nothing to do with the feelings being discussed

.

 

[mark_a]

What you have not mentioned from the Emmaus journey when the disciples hearts burned from hearing the Liturgy of the Word (all the scriptures Luke 24:27) is directly related from the “True presence” of Jesus in their midst. This does not get revealed until the Eucharist (breaking of bread) reveals the True presence of Jesus in their midst, is how they came to know Jesus in the breaking of bread when Jesus vanished from their sight.

Excellent insight!! Thanks for posting.

 

[Stephen168]

Any one want to refute this? Anyone want to support this? This is exaclty what Mormons are taught through the Book of Mormon, and their “prophets.” A form of this is the “burning in the bosom.” How do we know that this isn’t just Satan’s way of decieving us? He and his demons can after all appear as angels of light. No where in the Bible is a burning in he bosom a sign that something is true. Also, see my thread in the philosophy section for the origin of the title of this thread. It will shock you how blind the person is who I refute.

It isn’t simple the ‘burning in the bosom” that is a problem. It is the Mormon requirement to suspend fact and reason which makes it a problem for seekers of truth.

If a “feeling” takes you away from a faith and truth that has been known and passed down for 2,000 years, it makes me wonder what the source of that feeling is.
JeanMichel;7606742:

This may be the right answer; however, from a philosophical point of view it presents problems. In this thread the criticism is that Mormon leadership taunts those who do not gain a belief in the Book of Mormon because they are not praying properly or are not righteous enough.

There is no problem philosophically. Feelings are not facts or reason. Feelings should not lead you from the truth. When Mormons require people to make decisions based solely on emotions; they are trying brain wash them.

Yet, what you may be proposing is the exact same logic.

No there was absolutely no attempt not even in the slightest to suggest that someone should pray to see if the Catholic Church was true. A claim was made that the Catholic faith has been passed down for 2000 years. The claim will stand or fall on the historical facts not on a Mormon’s or Catholic’s feelings. I can understand that a Mormon like you might assume that was being said so you could take a shot at Catholicism, and make Mormonism seem just as reasonable.

 

[mtolympus]

Wow! I must have missed this all my life. Sometimes I wish this was true, however, instant gradification of pleasure and desire does not lead to lasting joy and happiness. “If it FEELS good, then it must be right” is a similar but a COUNTERFIT statement of our belief. This is a good example of how easily our teachings can be distorted. It would be more acurate to say Latter-day Saints believe that understanding of spiritual things come by faith through a witness of the Spirit.

 

[KathleenGee]

The scenario of Christ and the Road to Emmaus, repeating Gabriel’s church instruction is that, in another perspective of the same, Christ is revealing to them depth of understanding of Sacred Scriptures, and incarnating the Word of God into the divine nourishment of the Eucharist.

It is no longer necessary for Christ to remain with us as He was before the completion of His mission.

Christ is remains with us now in His Word and in His Eucharist. Now it is time for us to receive the Lord and bring the Good News to others.

He is the Cause; His final presence – felt, the Effect. The issue is to keep our focus on the Lord and His will, and to receive Him in the manner He showed them at Emmaus…through grace-filled relationship on the Living Word and His Eucharist.

 

[Labarum]

I don’t discount feelings entirely, but neither do I see that we are taught to run on feelings alone. To do either is not reasonable.

I second that.

Feelings come and go and they can also deceive you. You need to pray, think and act. To run on feelings is what Western society is doing right now and look where it is taking us.

We must discern our feelings before acting.