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Namesake
Guest
If the immaculate conception was disavowed by the Roman Church would Jesus Christ be diminished in your faith?
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Harpazo
Guest
It could never be disavowed, because it was dogmatically proclaimed, even though it was believed by Christians from the earliest days of Christ’s Catholic Church.
So we have nothing to worry about!
Pace e Bene
Andrew
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Namesake
Guest
That really isn’t an answer. What if it was decided that the immaculate conception was not any longer supported by the Church? What then?It could never be disavowed, because it was dogmatically proclaimed, even though it was believed by Christians from the earliest days of Christ’s Catholic Church.
So we have nothing to worry about!
Pace e Bene
Andrew
I suppose the real question is, whether the immaculate conception is necessary for your belief in Christ as savior to the world?
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Uncle_Norbert
Guest
Not at all. For me, the Immaculate Conception is only a part of what makes Mary, Mary.
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Namesake
Guest
I agree completely. I accept the immaculate conception and I think it is a beautiful story. But it is not necessary for my faith in Jesus Christ as my savior. Neither is the belief that Mary was a perpetual virgin.
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2ndGen
Guest
I would jump off a bridge if the Pope decreed it!
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Uncle_Norbert
Guest
Where’s Tommy Smothers when I need him? 
If the Pope decreed it, I’d certainly like to read the encyclical first.
If the Pope decreed it, I’d certainly like to read the encyclical first.
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Namesake
Guest
That would be the definition of zealotry, not that that’s a bad thing…
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Namesake
Guest
I really like that response…Where’s Tommy Smothers when I need him?
If the Pope decreed it, I’d certainly like to read the encyclical first.
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water
Guest
what kind of answer would you like to hear?
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Uncle_Norbert
Guest
Well, along with my belief in the Immaculate Conception, I also strongly believe in the Virgin Birth and Mary’s perpetual virginity.
I’ll never forget the Protestant girl at work 20 years or so ago, who stated that “Mary was nothing but a suitcase used by God to deliver Jesus to us on Earth”.
Zoikes !
I’ll never forget the Protestant girl at work 20 years or so ago, who stated that “Mary was nothing but a suitcase used by God to deliver Jesus to us on Earth”.
Zoikes !
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Namesake
Guest
Well I certainly don’t go along with that!
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Rolltide
Guest
Well, your question is more interesting that you think. If the Immaculate Conception had not already been dogmatically and infallibly defined by the pope, then it wouldn’t likely be a tremendous issue. The problem, however, is that it HAS been dogmatically and infallibly defined. In other words, it is one of those items of faith, like the Trinity and the divinity of God, that can never be changed by the Catholic Church. It must continue to hold the position, and once declared, even a pope cannot “undefine” it. The consequences of an unchangeable dogma of the Catholic Church being proven false would mean that the whole idea of dogma would collapse like a house of cards. If it could be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, it would be a sign that the Holy Spirit was not with the Catholic Church and it was not the true faith. If an infallible declaration of the Immaculate Conception was incorrect, then how could you ever trust more critical dogmas like the Trinity, which were also defined by the Catholic Church?
That said, I have absolutely NO concern of that scenario ever arising.
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Namesake
Guest
I don’t think you are correct. Dogma can be changed, it just isn’t by tradition.Well, your question is more interesting that you think. If the Immaculate Conception had not already been dogmatically and infallibly defined by the pope, then it wouldn’t likely be a tremendous issue. The problem, however, is that it HAS been dogmatically and infallibly defined. In other words, it is one of those items of faith, like the Trinity and the divinity of God, that can never be changed by the Catholic Church. It must continue to hold the position, and once declared, even a pope cannot “undefine” it. The consequences of an unchangeable dogma of the Catholic Church being proven false would mean that the whole idea of dogma would collapse like a house of cards. If it could be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, it would be a sign that the Holy Spirit was not with the Catholic Church and it was not the true faith. If an infallible declaration of the Immaculate Conception was incorrect, then how could you ever trust more critical dogmas like the Trinity, which were also defined by the Catholic Church?
That said, I have absolutely NO concern of that scenario ever arising.
But, the question remains. If Mary was shown to be defiled before the birth of Jesus, would that have any affect of the faith?
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2ndGen
Guest
Which brings about a great question:
Has any doctrine and/or dogma been changed or reversed?
Has any doctrine and/or dogma been changed or reversed?
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Namesake
Guest
The question is, if Mary wasn’t a virgin would that diminish Jesus in your faith?
Try to stay on topic please.
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2ndGen
Guest
Actually, “this” was the question.
And The Immaculate Conception “is” doctrine.
So, I was on topic.
And you were talking about doctrinal change first.
Do you hold double standards for what you can talk about and what responders can?
By the way…it’s a loaded question.
Mary’s personal backround has nothing to do with faith in Christ.
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Stephen_C
Guest
Well you see things through different eyes and filters then I. So no matter how I would respond to your what if… It would not be good enough for you. I just happen to believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and given to Peter (Simon) to sheppard. That not even the gates of hell would prevail. That being said…you view this as arrogance on my part. But I do not see it that way. I see it as humbly submitting to the authority that Christ gave his Church. I do not have to continually try and reinvent the wheel. Or try and squeeze out new meaning (proof texting) from the bible. This was all settled 2000 years ago. All I have to do is live out my faith. And continue to grow in that faith to become more Christlike each day.
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Namesake
Guest
Oh, that isn’t true at all. No double standard, no loaded question.Actually, “this” was the question.
And The Immaculate Conception “is” doctrine.
So, I was on topic.
And you were talking about doctrinal change first.
Do you hold double standards for what you can talk about and what responders can?
By the way…it’s a loaded question.
Mary’s personal backround has nothing to do with faith in Christ.
It’s straight forward.
If Mary wasn’t a virgin would that have any affect at all on your faith in Jesus as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind?
Pretty simple question.
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Stephen_C
Guest
Ok here goes…you won’t like the answer…Would not happen. This has already been settled by the Holy Spirit working through his Church…I can move on and again just live out my faith.
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