if jesus didnt rise from the dead or even exist....

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šŸ‘ ONE survived. That is evidence enough that it IS possible for one to survive crucifixion. Joseph of Arimathea was a wealthy man so we can not say for sure that there was not someone brought in under cover to help aid in the recovery. ALOE: HULLO!!! 🤷 It is not like I am basing this on absolutely no evidences. OPEN YOUR EYES!!! The resurrection story of a godman is Hellenistic; it originated in Egypt, was adopted by Greece and absorbed by the Romans: TA-DA! Up springs the Roman Catholic Church. There IS a reason they do not want you to know the Scriptures. YOu have minds… USE THEM!!! 😊
please knock it off simplynoone. I know you are using smily faces to agitate us, but that really isnt kind of you. You really arent providing any type of evidence, youre just stating your opinion by saying the resurection of Jesus is hellenistic.I prefer you to reply to prior posts with more knowledge rather biased opinions. I dont want this post to offend you, so please dont treat this reply as me being offensive towards you.

Ask God to open your eyes and see things that are recorded in history for ever.
 
I promise… resurrection from the dead after 3 days is even more rare. You are willing to believe that and not the more logical explanation? You cannot use the rare card, when you are buying into one of the oldest mythological stories that have existed since the ā€œdawningā€ of mankind. 🤷
you actually are comparing the resurection of Jesus to the mythologoy of Mirtha? Don`t believe everything you read from the internet.
 
please knock it off simplynoone. I know you are using smily faces to agitate us, but that really isnt kind of you. You really arent providing any type of evidence, youre just stating your opinion by saying the resurection of Jesus is hellenistic.I prefer you to reply to prior posts with more knowledge rather biased opinions. I dont want this post to offend you, so please dont treat this reply as me being offensive towards you.

Ask God to open your eyes and see things that are recorded in history for ever.
Well you should be happy to hear that your post does NOT offend me. Your judgment of my use for smilie faces was wrong, but since they seem to upset you, I will not use them. (By the way, if they bug you so much, you might want to send that complaint to the mods… after all, when they are located within my line of site… well… temptation is hard to resist).

I have given plenty of evidences. 1. Survival is NOT impossible. 2. Resurrection from the dead is. 3. Joseph of Arimathea was rich and surely could afford someone to aid in Jesus’ recovery… after all, there were men there at the tomb (aka angels… which the Jews do not subscribe to the mystical view of angels as the hellenistic cultures did) 4. WHAT JOSEPH BROUGHT TO THE TOMB WAS NOT USED FOR EMBALMING THE DEAD, BUT FOR AIDING IN HEALING… and NOT ONLY do scholars raise their eyebrows at this, but so have priests in the Church.

There is more evidence in the NT to believe the logical than evidence IN ALL THE WORLD to be believe the unnatural. God is the Creator of Nature… I, for one TRUST HIM FULLY when He said in Malachi 3:6 that He does not change. Yellow smilie face
 
Well you should be happy to hear that your post does NOT offend me. Your judgment of my use for smilie faces was wrong, but since they seem to upset you, I will not use them. (By the way, if they bug you so much, you might want to send that complaint to the mods… after all, when they are located within my line of site… well… temptation is hard to resist).

I have given plenty of evidences. 1. Survival is NOT impossible. 2. Resurrection from the dead is. 3. Joseph of Arimathea was rich and surely could afford someone to aid in Jesus’ recovery… after all, there were men there at the tomb (aka angels… which the Jews do not subscribe to the mystical view of angels as the hellenistic cultures did) 4. WHAT JOSEPH BROUGHT TO THE TOMB WAS NOT USED FOR EMBALMING THE DEAD, BUT FOR AIDING IN HEALING… and NOT ONLY do scholars raise their eyebrows at this, but so have priests in the Church.

There is more evidence in the NT to believe the logical than evidence IN ALL THE WORLD to be believe the unnatural. God is the Creator of Nature… I, for one TRUST HIM FULLY when He said in Malachi 3:6 that He does not change. Yellow smilie face
I can not reply to your post properly. But thanks for responding, however…it is very late here in Germany `yawn
 
you actually are comparing the resurection of Jesus to the mythologoy of Mirtha? Don`t believe everything you read from the internet.
I did not read it off the Internet. I do read things out of books (and quite often too; is one of my favorite things to do). I think the one that I read about Mithra was in the book titled, Our Sun-God, (and the rest of the title has something to do with Christians copy catting mythology… not sure… I loaned it out awhile back and so I don’t have it to look at right now).

Not all of us get our information only from online and from the T.V. yellow smilie face
 
I did not read it off the Internet. I do read things out of books (and quite often too; is one of my favorite things to do). I think the one that I read about Mithra was in the book titled, Our Sun-God, (and the rest of the title has something to do with Christians copy catting mythology… not sure… I loaned it out awhile back and so I don’t have it to look at right now).

Not all of us get our information only from online and from the T.V. yellow smilie face
Copied from mythology? Check out tektonics.org on that issue. Then we can talk about that.

God Bless.
 
Copied from mythology? Check out tektonics.org on that issue. Then we can talk about that.

God Bless.
If you would not mind letting me know exactly what it is you are wanting me to look at. This is why I do not bother doing much research online. Time consuming. Much easier to go to an encyclopedia than to waste my time clicking on links trying to find what it is I am looking for. shrugs Am willing to do it, but it will be much easier if you tell me what to click on. I clicked on a couple and did not see anything of relevance. 😊
 
Jesus Did die on the Cross. Over 2,000 years latter people are still denying the Messiah…
 
Jesus Did die on the Cross. Over 2,000 years latter people are still denying the Messiah…
I do not deny the Messiah… I just hold to the Tanakh’s definition of the Messiah and not the Hellenistic view of a Messiah. shrugs
 
If you would not mind letting me know exactly what it is you are wanting me to look at. This is why I do not bother doing much research online. Time consuming. Much easier to go to an encyclopedia than to waste my time clicking on links trying to find what it is I am looking for. shrugs Am willing to do it, but it will be much easier if you tell me what to click on. I clicked on a couple and did not see anything of relevance. 😊
Sorry, I was just rushing out the door when I gave that link.

Here:
tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

By the way, are you still subscribing to the ā€œSwoon theoryā€? Let me know if you have any more thoughts about it.

God Bless.
 
I promise… resurrection from the dead after 3 days is even more rare. You are willing to believe that and not the more logical explanation? You cannot use the rare card, when you are buying into one of the oldest mythological stories that have existed since the ā€œdawningā€ of mankind. 🤷
Oh, you do have more thoughts, my mistake.

So even when the proof is for it, you’ll still deny the existence of God on Earth? I repeat, judging by the details of Jesus’ personal crucifixion, there is no way he could have survived.

In the accounts of Josephus, we do not have any details of the specific crucifixions. We also know that they were given urgent medical attention by a professional physician. Even with these two facts in mind, only one of the 3 survived. Jesus was not given such medical attention, you see.

Wait, why is it mythological? Because it defies your personal idea of an atheistic universe? (I’m not sure… Are you atheist?) Open your eyes!

God Bless.
 
Sorry, I was just rushing out the door when I gave that link.

Here:
tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

By the way, are you still subscribing to the ā€œSwoon theoryā€? Let me know if you have any more thoughts about it.

God Bless.
Not a problem. Thank you for the link. I will admit that I am not seeing how anything is being disproved concerning the EXTREME similarities, but rather the author is attempting to explain away to try to cover tracks. Note: this theme is repeated NOT ONLY in the Mithra mythology, but also with Horus and Krishna. The names and such may vary a bit, but not much. Also, note, I did not include the date of December 25th, but only included the points that are one in the same with what is mentioned in the NT. If I had included all the extra paganism that has been added on since, the list would have been MUCH longer, I assure you. šŸ™‚
 
Oh, you do have more thoughts, my mistake.

So even when the proof is for it, you’ll still deny the existence of God on Earth?
I do NOT deny the Creator of the Earth!! I am His, 100%!! I deny the Hellenistic teachings that surround Jesus! I do not deny Jesus being a Jewish Rabbi that held to Judaism, but I will not lie… I am sickened by the ā€œcrucify himā€ crowd that still clings to the mythologies that they think will save them. I KNOW that there is only ONE God and that HE is the Saviour… not a man. I am SO sad for Jesus… a man who LOVED God so much and loved his people FIERCELY and yet, the the gentiles (of which I am… though, I heard his TRUTH somehow and thankfully) were eager to grasp onto the hellenistic teachings of Paul… a jealous man. I am SO VERY sad that Jesus went through all that he did only to have it all corrupted. 😊
I repeat, judging by the details of Jesus’ personal crucifixion, there is no way he could have survived.
This is a FALSE statement… to say that there is no way. We have evidence of survival from crucifixion… therefore, to say there is NO WAY is a lie.
In the accounts of Josephus, we do not have any details of the specific crucifixions. We also know that they were given urgent medical attention by a professional physician. Even with these two facts in mind, only one of the 3 survived. Jesus was not given such medical attention, you see.
Still… we know that survival WAS possible. According to Josephus, his friend was not doing all that well. ALOE… explain to me WHY aloe was brought to the tomb where Jesus’ body laid… it was NOT used to embalm him… if you say otherwise, you are only showing ignorance. WHY WOULD ALOE have been brought to the tomb, else they knew that he was still alive. This doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out… even some of your own priests are admitting to knowing why they encourage you to let THEM reveal what it is they think you should know to you. One even said, ā€œto come into the Church doors week after week, the mind MUST be turned off.ā€
Wait, why is it mythological? Because it defies your personal idea of an atheistic universe? (I’m not sure… Are you atheist?) Open your eyes!
God Bless.
I am not an atheist and my eyes are open!!! That is why I can see all the overwhelming evidences that are there in front of them. šŸ™‚
 
Regarding the dubious copycat theses:
tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
This is a FALSE statement… to say that there is no way. We have evidence of survival from crucifixion… therefore, to say there is NO WAY is a lie.
Actually, it is not a lie to say that Jesus could not possibly have survived, given what we know of His crucifixion; see Edwards, William D., et al., ā€œOn the Physical Death of Jesus Christā€, Journal of the American Medical Association (March 21, 1986), 1455–63.
Still… we know that survival WAS possible. According to Josephus, his friend was not doing all that well. ALOE… explain to me WHY aloe was brought to the tomb where Jesus’ body laid… it was NOT used to embalm him… if you say otherwise, you are only showing ignorance. WHY WOULD ALOE have been brought to the tomb, else they knew that he was still alive. This doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out… even some of your own priests are admitting to knowing why they encourage you to let THEM reveal what it is they think you should know to you. One even said, ā€œto come into the Church doors week after week, the mind MUST be turned off.ā€
Alas, too many priests were misled by proponents of novel, fancy and ultimately false doctrines in the wake of the Second Vatican Council.

ā€œAt Jesus’ burial, 75 pounds of spices mixed with a gummy substance made from myrrh and aloes were used in between the folds of the linen cloths which were wrapped around His body (John 19:39-40). According to Jewish custom, the body was washed and straightened, then wrapped tightly from the armpits to the ankles in strips of linen about a foot wide. The gummy aromatic spices were placed between the wrappings or folds of the linen partly as a preservative and partly as a cement to glue the linen cloths into a solid covering which adhered so closely to the body that it would not easily be removed. The aloes were a fragrant wood which was pounded to a dry dust, and the myrrh was an aromatic gum which was mixed in with the dry aloes. The powder immediately around the myrrh would become sticky and would cement the linen cloths to each other and to the body, but the bulk of the aloe powder would most likely remain dry. The face was covered with a cloth napkin or handkerchief which was sometimes wrapped fully around the head.ā€ (Source)
 
I do NOT deny the Creator of the Earth!! I am His, 100%!! I deny the Hellenistic teachings that surround Jesus! I do not deny Jesus being a Jewish Rabbi that held to Judaism, but I will not lie… I am sickened by the ā€œcrucify himā€ crowd that still clings to the mythologies that they think will save them. I KNOW that there is only ONE God and that HE is the Saviour… not a man. I am SO sad for Jesus… a man who LOVED God so much and loved his people FIERCELY and yet, the the gentiles (of which I am… though, I heard his TRUTH somehow and thankfully) were eager to grasp onto the hellenistic teachings of Paul… a jealous man. I am SO VERY sad that Jesus went through all that he did only to have it all corrupted. 😊

This is a FALSE statement… to say that there is no way. We have evidence of survival from crucifixion… therefore, to say there is NO WAY is a lie.

Still… we know that survival WAS possible. According to Josephus, his friend was not doing all that well. ALOE… explain to me WHY aloe was brought to the tomb where Jesus’ body laid… it was NOT used to embalm him… if you say otherwise, you are only showing ignorance. WHY WOULD ALOE have been brought to the tomb, else they knew that he was still alive. This doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out… even some of your own priests are admitting to knowing why they encourage you to let THEM reveal what it is they think you should know to you. One even said, ā€œto come into the Church doors week after week, the mind MUST be turned off.ā€

I am not an atheist and my eyes are open!!! That is why I can see all the overwhelming evidences that are there in front of them. šŸ™‚
Yes, survival was possible. But the aloe used for Jesus’ burial was nothing compared to the medical treatment by a professional. In fact, aloe was ordinarily used for burial. (Deum_quaerens has a good quote)

Could I please have the sources which have priests using the Swoon Theory?

God Bless.
 
Yes, survival was possible. But the aloe used for Jesus’ burial was nothing compared to the medical treatment by a professional. In fact, aloe was ordinarily used for burial. (Deum_quaerens has a good quote)

Could I please have the sources which have priests using the Swoon Theory?

God Bless.
Yes, I noticed the quote was on a Christian site. I have been searching for a Jewish site that would confirm this as true. Still looking though.

As for the sources… it was a documentary I watched (I believe it was on BBC, though I could be mistaken). Give me some time and I will find out the name of it. You should find it quite interesting, really. šŸ™‚
 
Yes, I noticed the quote was on a Christian site. I have been searching for a Jewish site that would confirm this as true. Still looking though.
The vast majority of Jews blame Jesus for the Catholic Church anyway, so its no surprise you have a difficult time finding it.
 
Josephus said this about the survival of the crucifixion:
ā€œAnd when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.ā€

Even with urgent medical attention, only one survived.

Do you expect me to believe that some Aloe was supposed to heal Jesus wounds?

He had six trials in which he was beaten. He wore a crown of thorns. The purple robe could have additionally torn open his wounds. To quote CARM apologetics on the crucifixion:

ā€œThe arms are pulled apart and nails driven through the wrist into a cross beam which is raised in place. This dislocates the shoulders. The nails in the wrists sever the median nerve resulting in a burning pain as well as paralysis in the hand. To breathe Jesus had to press up on the nails in His feet, scraping His raw back on the wood. The body gradually drains of blood causing the heart to beat faster and faster. Dehydration is occurring. The breathing becomes more labored and intense as well as frequent adding to the agony. The blood loss results in extreme thirst as the body craves water to restore the lost blood. Jesus said, ā€œI thirstā€ (John 19:28). The heart beats so hard trying to compensate for the loss of oxygen (due to the lack of blood) in the body, that it eventually ruptures. At this point the chest cavity fills with fluid. The soldier pierced Jesus’ side and out came blood and water, signifying that the heart had stopped beating and the blood was settling in the chest cavity. Jesus was dead.ā€

In his burial, Jesus had to be very tightly wrapped. (Even when Lazurus rose, he had to be helped out of his burial clothes -John 12:44)

And what of the massive stone and the guards? There were rumors that the disciples would come and steal the corpse. In Roman society, if the guard’s prisoner escaped, the guard would have to take the place of the prisoner!

If you consider the horrible crucifixion, the extreme rarity that anyone would ever survive the crucifixion, and the fact that the Romans had to make sure Jesus was dead, you must come to your senses. Sorry, but considering the fact that you’re saying someone can survive a crucifixion with some aloe and then appear alive again, getting past guards, I’d say you’re the one who is being naive, and that your mentality is scary.

God Bless.
good points, I wonder why nobody replied to this:confused:

God Bless you too
 
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