"If" Jesus had blood brothers & sisters, then...

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PLAT said:
facepalm

not established =/= not believe

and btw

not believe =/= oppose

And “many” is a vague term. Use words like, “minority”, “majority”, or specific person please.

Did Mary have sex? no
Did Mary recieve the holy blessing like she recieved Jesus as her baby? no, no one but Jesus
Did Mary live in the same room as Jeseph? no
If you imply Mary has other sons and daughters, are you suggesting she is a ****? I don’t know. I don’t think God wants a whore to be the mother of Jesus though.
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No one is suggesting that. Interesting…why would you think that? Is that seriously the only alternative you have?
 
ClamDigger said:
Yes. Why did Jesus entrust Mary to St. John’s care in John 19 if Mary had other sons? Why did the betrothed Mary ask the angel in Luke 1 how she would conceive a child in the future if she had not intended to remain a virgin even after her marriage? Why is Mary never called the mother of anyone but Jesus in the entire Scripture? Why is no one ever called the son of Mary but Jesus in the entire Scripture?
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According to Catholic tradition, John could have been her nephew, correct?
keyway.ca/htm2001/20010509.htm
 
PRmerger said:
Scripture verse for this, please.
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There is not a scripture or verse stating the parents of the brothers of Jesus. That is one of the reasons it is controversial. Bart Ehrman to Catholic traditionalists have a range of views. I happen to fall on the most likely person, Joseph. But we digress…
 
Rightlydivide said:
There is not a scripture or verse stating the parents of the brothers of Jesus.
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Exactly!

Which is why, if one wishes to follow the teachings of Christ and His Apostles, we know that Mary did not have other children.

Scripture says NO WHERE that anyone else was contained in the holy tabernacle of Mary’s womb.
 
PRmerger said:
Exactly!

Which is why, if one wishes to follow the teachings of Christ and His Apostles, we know that Mary did not have other children.

Scripture says NO WHERE that anyone else was contained in the holy tabernacle of Mary’s womb.
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No, it cannot be proved that it comes from Christ or His apostles. You do not know that at all. You cannot prove it…or it would be proven! Starting with the Protoevangelium, a book condemned by a Catholic council I will add, you have some people who start to claim they are half brothers by Joseph…that is the first mention of an alternative possibility.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Well…a Catholic taught me that…but no not big t tradition as he stated as well
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Be careful when you say “a Catholic taught me that.”

There are many Catholics who don’t even know what the Immaculate Conception is. :sad_yes:
 
Rightlydivide said:
No, it cannot be proved that it comes from Christ or His apostles. You do not know that at all. You cannot prove it…or it would be proven! Starting with the Protoevangelium, a book condemned by a Catholic council I will add, you have some people who start to claim they are half brothers by Joseph…that is the first mention of an alternative possibility.
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Well, if we can’t prove it, then you can’t accept the canon of Scripture. For it was this same Church that taught that Mary was a Perpetual Virgin that codified the Scriptures for you and your church to use.

And, yes, you would not know that the Protoevangelium of James is not* theopneustos *were it not for my Church.
 
PRmerger said:
Is that website you cited written by a Catholic? :confused:
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No.
Here is the Catholic encyclopedia
2) One of the holy women present at the Crucifixion, and who visited the tomb on the morning of the Resurrection (Mark 15:40; 16:1). In Mark 15:40, we read: “And there were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the Mother of James the Less the Less and of Joseph, and Salome.” The parallel passage of Matthew reads thus: “Among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee” (Matthew 27:56). Comparison of the two gives a well-grounded probability that the Salome of the former is identical with the mother of the sons of Zebedee in the latter, who is mentioned also in Matthew 20:20 sq., in connection with the petition in favour of her sons. Beyond these references in the Gospel narrative and what may be inferred from them nothing is known of Salome, though some writers conjecture more or less plausibly that she is the sister of the Blessed Virgin mentioned in John 19:25.

acatholicview.blogspot.com/2010/10/st-mary-salome.html
 
PRmerger said:
Well, if we can’t prove it, then you can’t accept the canon of Scripture. For it was this same Church that taught that Mary was a Perpetual Virgin that codified the Scriptures for you and your church to use.

And, yes, you would not know that the Protoevangelium of James is not* theopneustos *were it not for my Church.
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Sure I can. There have always been divergent teachings in the church. And only one person can be right. Look at Revelation, how many of the churches were already teaching incorrect doctrine according to John? So your argument contradicts what we know from scripture.
 
Rightlydivide said:
There is not a scripture or verse stating the parents of the brothers of Jesus. That is one of the reasons it is controversial. Bart Ehrman to Catholic traditionalists have a range of views. I happen to fall on the most likely person, Joseph. But we digress…
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Wait I thought you are fundamentalist?

And fundamentalists say the fullness of truth is within bible itself? Shouldn’t there be any contraversies of the literal meaning at all? (or using sources other than bible?)

btw, refrain from using the “prove” because a proof is used for an argument, which can be true or false. An “evidence” is used for a fact (truth), which cannot be true and false at the same time at any point of a discussion. (bear with this if I haven’t made clear about this)

Likewise, where someone asks how you know God exists, you don’t say you can’t prove it and that what you need is faith. Rather, you can feel grace from praying and recieving sacraments, etc.

And… excuse me? “only one person can be right”? Only God can be right.
 
Rightlydivide said:
No.
Here is the Catholic encyclopedia
2) One of the holy women present at the Crucifixion, and who visited the tomb on the morning of the Resurrection (Mark 15:40; 16:1). In Mark 15:40, we read: “And there were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the Mother of James the Less the Less and of Joseph, and Salome.” The parallel passage of Matthew reads thus: “Among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee” (Matthew 27:56). Comparison of the two gives a well-grounded probability that the Salome of the former is identical with the mother of the sons of Zebedee in the latter, who is mentioned also in Matthew 20:20 sq., in connection with the petition in favour of her sons. Beyond these references in the Gospel narrative and what may be inferred from them nothing is known of Salome, though some writers conjecture more or less plausibly that she is the sister of the Blessed Virgin mentioned in John 19:25.

acatholicview.blogspot.com/2010/10/st-mary-salome.html
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Huh? Where does the above say what you posted below?
Rightlydivide said:
According to Catholic tradition, John could have been her nephew, correct?
keyway.ca/htm2001/20010509.htm
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Rightlydivide said:
There have always been divergent teachings in the church.
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True. Nonsequitor, and irrelevant, but true enough.
And only one person can be right. Look at Revelation, how many of the churches were already teaching incorrect doctrine according to John? So your argument contradicts what we know from scripture.
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How so?

And remember, when you say “what we know from Scripture” you are acknowledging the authority of this Catholic Church which you say cannot be proven to have existed from the time of the Apostles.
 
Rightlydivide said:
James, the brother of the Lord, was an Apostle. They are mentioned in the NT but they are not the focus of the NT. As far as the ECF, here is Hegesippus, the earliest Christian historian from around the year 130-150 AD.
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**Okay - let’s talk about what Hegesippus had to say about James.

First of all, the “other Mary” at the foot of the cross is described as being the mother of James and Joses and Salome. She is also described as being Mary’s (mother of Jesus) “sister” (adelphe) (John 19:25).
**James is described as the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3), which would mean this other Mary, whoever she was, was the wife of both Clopas and Alphaeus. **

**However, Alphaeus and Clopas are the same person, since the Aramaic name for Alphaeus could be rendered in Greek either as Alphaeus or as Clopas. **

The 2nd century historian Hegesippus writes that Clopas was the brother of Joseph, the foster-father of Jesus. So, according to Hehesippus, James was be Joseph’s nephew and a cousin of Jesus, who was Joseph’s acknowledged son.
 
If Jesus had uterine brothers and sisters then there would’ve been no need to establish the papacy with a non-relative.
 
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