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hasantas
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Baptism make cleaning but not requirement of salvation!
If someone dos not be Baptized then will not he have salvation in Christianity?
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If someone dos not be Baptized then will not he have salvation in Christianity?
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PRmerger
Guest
That contradicts our Scriptures, hasantas.
God can save whomever He pleases, but baptism is required for salvation. That’s what the Sacred Word tells us.
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hasantas
Guest
All these verses do not mean God is three and I can explain but firstly all these are from Jesus so do you accept Jesus was a prophet?
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hasantas
Guest
Some Christians say Baptism is very importand for faith and salvation but it is not a requirement?
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PRmerger
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Those Christians have departed from the kerygma, which was given once, for all, to the Apostles.
Many Christians have created their own versions of the Good News.
Just like many Muslims have done with Islam.
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Vico
Guest
No, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not a prophet. He is the fulfillment of the prophesies, the Messiah. The greatest prophet was St. John the Baptist and the last prophet was Apostle St. John the Theologian.
The Catechism show the Catholic teaching.
There will be no further Revelation
66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
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hasantas
Guest
Yes St John the Baptist was a prophet but Apostle St John was an apostle not a prophet. He might had some private inspirations but that do not make him a prophet.
Jesus said “16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14”. That demonstrate the revelation of Jesus was not the last.
Qur’an do not surpass or correct Bible but Qur’an correct Church! Church is consist of people and they cannot surpass scripture. But if you say they can then all responsibilty is for you.
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Vico
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The Comforter is the Holy Spirit which we receive in the Holy Sacraments.
Prophet means both hearing God by voice and by dreams. St. John the Theologian is thought to have written the Revelations.
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hasantas
Guest
The Comforter could not be Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit had come to prophets many times before Jesus and Holy Spirit was always with Jesus. And the Comforter should be kind of Jesus!(as human). Also Holy Spirit would be with the Comforter but Holy Spirit is not Comforter himself.
Yes, prophets hear God by voice and by dreams but also take revelation from God through Holy Spirit. If there would not be Jesus so there would be no mean with St. John. Inspiration of John make no sense by itself free from Jesus so St. John was not a prophet.
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Vico
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I understand that you do not believe in one God in three persons, Father, Son , and Holy Spirit, and that the Comforter is God the Holy Spirit. Christians believe this since it was revealed by God and passed down through Tradition. What is revealed can be through God the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, and the three always interpenetrate.
I don’t know what St. John you mean, the forerunner, or the theologian. Either way, their work was always with reference to the Messiah.
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hasantas
Guest
There is a very presumptive possibility that you mean it was revealed by God and passed down through tradition maybe not revelation from God but something which was made up later. There are many evidences for that. But for sake of faith and salvation many conflicts are to be accepted! Wheras the faith and salvation is more clear on the other hand.
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PRmerger
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Sacred Tradition IS revelation from God.
To believe that everything God revealed was written down by men is, ironically, a man-made tradition. No where does the Holy Book declare this to be so.
This belief was “made up later” (around the 1500s, when the Protestant Reformation began).
It will be a good logical argument for you to use, hasantas, whenever you are in dialogue with a fundamentalist Christian. You can say, “You believe that everything you are to believe as Christians must be found in the Bible, yes? So can you show me where this belief is found in the Bible?”
You will receive lots of obfuscation and circulatory remarks, but you won’t find a single Bible verse to support this.
(Well, they may say, “All Scripture is inspired by God”–2 Timothy 3:16 but that certainly does NOT say that everything we ought to believe is found in the Bible. It means that everything that’s in the Bible we should believe. Totally different.)
But since you are on a Catholic forum, you should know that Catholics do not believe that everything God revealed was written down…because that’s not anywhere to be found in the Sacred Scripture.
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Vico
Guest
Jesus Christ brought us the Truth, the mystery has been revealed. St. Paul wrote in Collossians 1
25 Whereof I am made a minister according to the dispensation of God, which is given me towards you, that I may fulfil the word of God: 26 The mystery which hath been hidden from ages and generations, but now is manifested to his saints,
The Holy Trinity Prayer
Father, you sent your Word to bring us truth and your Spirit to make us holy. Through them we come to know the mystery of your life. Help us to worship you, one God in three Persons, by proclaiming and living our faith in your. Grant this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
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hasantas
Guest
Faith should be revealed and saved through scripture. Otherwise there could be always doubts. The conflicts in Church itself is an evidence of that. Church had made many mistakes.Just by some inquisitions!Sacred Tradition IS revelation from God.
To believe that everything God revealed was written down by men is, ironically, a man-made tradition. No where does the Holy Book declare this to be so.
This belief was “made up later” (around the 1500s, when the Protestant Reformation began).
It will be a good logical argument for you to use, hasantas, whenever you are in dialogue with a fundamentalist Christian. You can say, “You believe that everything you are to believe as Christians must be found in the Bible, yes? So can you show me where this belief is found in the Bible?”
You will receive lots of obfuscation and circulatory remarks, but you won’t find a single Bible verse to support this.
(Well, they may say, “All Scripture is inspired by God”–2 Timothy 3:16 but that certainly does NOT say that everything we ought to believe is found in the Bible. It means that everything that’s in the Bible we should believe. Totally different.)
But since you are on a Catholic forum, you should know that Catholics do not believe that everything God revealed was written down…because that’s not anywhere to be found in the Sacred Scripture.
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hasantas
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That is not reliable. It will take so long to discuss.
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hasantas
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St. Paul was enemy of Jesus and St. Paul did mnay awful acts to harm believers of Jesus. And you say we should trust St. Paul that Paul had taken revelation so he could establish faith without Jesus!
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PRmerger
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Actually, there could be always doubts when the faith is revealed only through a text.
Because a text cannot speak definitively when there are “doubts”.
What solves this problem is that there is a Church which speaks authoritatively.
The Catholic way is this: faith is revealed through a Person, a Head and this Head has a Body, the Catholic Church, which speaks authoritatively.
No book can remove doubts.
Only a living authority.
No, hasantas. The Church is Christ’s Body, and as such it cannot make mistakes.
Sinful people who do not follow the Church’s teachings are the source of many mistakes.
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hasantas
Guest
Authority should save scripture but not to add into or take from it something.
Could you demonstrate that Church is guided by God? If Church is led by God then why so arguments between Churchs? Which Church is body of Jesus?
As you see the idea of ever infallible Church is very doubtful.
Church mah do very good things but that do not mean that Church could not do any mistake.
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PRmerger
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How does this work, hasantas?
How does Scripture come to us? Did it fall from the heavens, leather-bound, with 27 books of the New Testament completed?
Or did a Church review all of the Christian writings and discern which ones were theopneustos (God-breathed) and which ones weren’t?
This would mean that the Church is the determiner of what belongs in our Bible, no?
Your Islam also has “so many arguments” between its members.
Do you conclude, then, that Islam is false?
You should use this when you discuss with a fundamentalist Bible Alone Christian, hasantas, but it won’t work here on a Catholic forum.
Ask the Bible Alone Christian how he can be sure that the Gospel of Mark is God-breathed, since it was an allegedly fallible Catholic Church which determined that the Gospel of Mark is God-breathed.
That’s a zinger you can use on a Bible Alone Forum.
The Church does not teach error, hasantas. Bad people in the Church do bad things, but there is not a single thing the Church has taught that is in error.
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Vico
Guest
He was a Pharisee that did harm to Christians, but left that to become a great Saint and teach and live what Christ taught.
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