If Jesus would got married?

[PRmerger]

You Christians use those ver much when you are amazed or shocked! O My God or My Lord!

That is not what St. Thomas said.

He said, when Jesus showed him his wounds, “My Lord and my God!”.

And Jesus accepted this worship.

No man accepts worship as Lord and God…unless he actually is Lord and God.

To do so would make Jesus a very wicked man.

And even your Koran does not state that Jesus as an evil, corrupted person.

Thomas were very amazed and shocked to see that Jesus was alive.

Indeed.

And the fact that Jesus was alive…is the most important thing that ever happened.

Proof that He was God.

 

[hasantas]

Jesus walked on water, walked through locked doors, healed the sick, fed the hungry 4,000 and 5,000. Jesus quieted the winds, raised people and himself from the dead. What else does he have to do to show his divine nature???

Those were miracles. Many prophets performed miracles. And Jesus always said Father had given those to Him.

 

[hasantas]

Indeed.

The biggie, of course, is that HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD.

Alleluia!

Nothing can trump that.

Do God die?

All people die include Jesus and God will rise deads. Jesus had rose some deads by power of God as a miracle.

Jesus did not die even if Jesus had died and rose from dead but God would do that!

 

[hasantas]

Yes, God does not occur through some relations. God is not an occurrence at all, but eternal. The relations of opposition are essential and do not import composition.

From the Modern Catholic Dictionary,** Incarnation**:

The union of the divine nature of the Son of God with human nature in the person of Jesus Christ. … His divine nature was substantially united to our human nature. …

So this requires understanding three terms:

• person
• divine nature
• human nature

The human nature is an immortal soul which combined with a corruptible body we call this a human person.

The divine nature is The Trinity which is absolutely simple and has no composition. The persons of the Trinity are the essential relations of opposition.

God appropriates to Itself human nature, and takes the place of the human person, so the human nature of Jesus Christ supplies the place of the human person, and without change in God because all the change was in the flesh. Because this is from conception, a human person never exists, rather this is divine person from eternity.

From conception, in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the human rational soul of Jesus Christ was created and God assumed the man that was conceived.

Human soul is immortal with power and will of God. Otherwise if God decide to dissolve it there will not be an immortal soul anymore.

Before divine nature assumed human nature there should be apart essence or a divine soul or a divine personality to do that. That means there should be anoher divine god(Son) apart from Father. Because while Son God do this Father God has distinct presence and that explaining of opposed relations is not enough. There is no more than one God!

 

[hasantas]

Sure.

Why would that not be possible?

What it means by “assuming”?

Is that God would feel and understand human being more? But do not God feel, see, understand etc without being material?

Could you explain “assuming”?

 

[djames99]

Somebody needs to write a book on this. It’s driving me craaazy.

No, no more Da Vinci Code’s.

 

[Vico]

Human soul is immortal with power and will of God. Otherwise if God decide to dissolve it there will not be an immortal soul anymore.

Before divine nature assumed human nature there should be apart essence or a divine soul or a divine personality to do that. That means there should be ano[t]her divine god (Son) apart from Father. Because while Son God do this Father God has distinct presence and that explaining of opposed relations is not enough. There is no more than one God!

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are never apart: there is only one God, one divine intelligence, one divine will. For Catholic faith, there is the dogma of Circuminsession or Perichoresis (from Greek: περιχώρησις perikhōrēsis, “rotation”). From the Modern Catholic Dictionary:

CIRCUMINSESSION. The mutual immanence of the three distinct persons of the Holy Trinity. The Father is entirely in the Son, likewise in the Holy Spirit; and so is the Son in the Father and the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit in the Father and the Son. Circuminsession also identifies the mutual immanence of the two distinct natures in the one Person of Jesus Christ.

In the Incarnation, the created rational soul and the created body was assumed by God. God the Son is the divine person. The rational soul provides the human nature. So there is one person with divine and human natures.

 

[hasantas]

That is not what St. Thomas said.

He said, when Jesus showed him his wounds, “My Lord and my God!”.

And Jesus accepted this worship.

No man accepts worship as Lord and God…unless he actually is Lord and God.

To do so would make Jesus a very wicked man.

And even your Koran does not state that Jesus as an evil, corrupted person.

Indeed.

And the fact that Jesus was alive…is the most important thing that ever happened.

Proof that He was God.

People bowe before of king too. That is not worship but some kind of regard. And Jesus did not say He accepted worships. Jesus talked about faith:

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20

 

[hasantas]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are never apart: there is only one God, one divine intelligence, one divine will. For Catholic faith, there is the dogma of Circuminsession or Perichoresis (from Greek: περιχώρησις perikhōrēsis, “rotation”). From the Modern Catholic Dictionary:

CIRCUMINSESSION. The mutual immanence of the three distinct persons of the Holy Trinity. The Father is entirely in the Son, likewise in the Holy Spirit; and so is the Son in the Father and the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit in the Father and the Son. Circuminsession also identifies the mutual immanence of the two distinct natures in the one Person of Jesus Christ.

In the Incarnation, the created rational soul and the created body was assumed by God. God the Son is the divine person. The rational soul provides the human nature. So there is one person with divine and human natures.

So there are distinct three persons. You say not God has three personalities but instead you say there are divine three apart personalities both of whom is apart eternal.

You do not talk about one God who become manifest as three persons but you say there are three eternal and divine distinct three persons.

Indeed God has many different manifestations. Through one God is omniscience, through other He is omnipotent and through other He is creator and other is giving life and other is giving food and other is revealer and etc etc etc. But all these come from one person but not three distinct eternal persons.

 

[Vico]

So there are distinct three persons. You say not God has three personalities but instead you say there are divine three apart personalities both of whom is apart eternal.

You do not talk about one God who become manifest as three persons but you say there are three eternal and divine distinct three persons.

Indeed God has many different manifestations. Through one God is omniscience, through other He is omnipotent and through other He is creator and other is giving life and other is giving food and other is revealer and etc etc etc. But all these come from one person but not three distinct eternal persons.

No, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are real difference, but only by our way of thinking. They are never apart (not independent) because the relations of opposition are essential. What you are describing is modalism (or Sabellianism) and that is not Catholic teaching. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Catechism explains:

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

 

[PRmerger]

Do God die?

Yes, God died at the Crucifixion.

(But that is not the same thing as saying God ceased to exist. Death is nothing more than the spirit and the body separating.)

All people die include Jesus and God will rise deads. Jesus had rose some deads by power of God as a miracle.

NO. Jesus said he would die and rise from the dead in 3 days.

And He did so.

Jesus did not die even if Jesus had died and rose from dead but God would do that!

What proof do you have that Jesus did not die?

 

[PRmerger]

There is no more than one God!

You are very Christian when you say this, hasantas!

 

[PRmerger]

What it means by “assuming”?

Is that God would feel and understand human being more? But do not God feel, see, understand etc without being material?

Could you explain “assuming”?

The Godhead, 3 Divine Persons, in 1 God, has always existed, co-eternal, consubstantial, co-equal…but 2000 years ago the Divine Son assumed a human nature and incarnated into the world, took on the Sins of Mankind and atoned for the evil in the world,* dying for you and for me, *so that we could, one day, deserve to stand before the Eternal Throne of heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

People bowe before of king too.

And do you think a Jew would call someone “My God” that wasn’t God?

And please remember, in Judaism, the name of the Lord of Lord and God on High, could never even be uttered, and yet here is a Jew calling a man “My God!”.

Do you think a man who accepts this title, but actually isn’t God, is a good man?

Does not your Koran say that Jesus was a good man?

So how do you reconcile this, hasantas?

Does a good man (which your Koran says Jesus was) accept the title of “God” when he is actually NOT God?

 

[DCNBILL]

People bowe before of king too. That is not worship but some kind of regard. And Jesus did not say He accepted worships. Jesus talked about faith:

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20

Jesus is clearly saying that Thomas believed He is God.

 

[Wesrock]

The idea that John would use a blasphemy as the climax to his Gospel is completely absurd.

 

[Wesrock]

Ha! Realized my last post could be taken two ways. By blasphemy, I meant with an exclamation taking the Lord’s name in vain.

 

[hasantas]

No, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are real difference, but only by our way of thinking. They are never apart (not independent) because the relations of opposition are essential. What you are describing is modalism (or Sabellianism) and that is not Catholic teaching. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Catechism explains:

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

God is three eternal coexistent persons! That seems very conflictive. When you say"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." but that means you talk about three persons and three gods. The fact is that: God is one person and one.

The problem with Aquinas(Trinity) is that: St Thomas Aquinas said God has three persons and those persons emerge from relations. If Thomas said God has three persons then there maybe not problem. But Thomas assume those three persons to have apart fact or presence from one same eternal essence. It could be supposed that God has generally three relations and those are called Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But if you say those persons are different in anyway that means God is not one anymore.

Thomas tried too much to support that God is one and I know that Christians believe in one God. Problem is to think that Jesus was God and struggles to explain that with philosophical doctrines . Did Thomas can explain incarnation? When did Christians start to believe that?

 

[hasantas]

And do you think a Jew would call someone “My God” that wasn’t God?

And please remember, in Judaism, the name of the Lord of Lord and God on High, could never even be uttered, and yet here is a Jew calling a man “My God!”.

Do you think a man who accepts this title, but actually isn’t God, is a good man?

Does not your Koran say that Jesus was a good man?

So how do you reconcile this, hasantas?

Does a good man (which your Koran says Jesus was) accept the title of “God” when he is actually NOT God?

Were apostles and believers used to behave and deal Jesus as a god? No. Then why do you claim that Thomas said Jesus was god?

It is not clear that Thomas said “you are my God and my Lord”. The act of Thomas should point his faith and Jesus declared that.

Jesus never accepted/preached such claims.

 

[PRmerger]

Were apostles and believers used to behave and deal Jesus as a god? No. Then why do you claim that Thomas said Jesus was god?

Because it’s quite clear in the text that he called Jesus “My Lord!”

It is not clear that Thomas said “you are my God and my Lord”.

Absolutely it is.

What would it mean for you to accept this, hasantas?

Would it rock your world to understand that God was truly Incarnate?

But if it’s true…then it doesn’t matter how earth-shattering the truth is…you, as a follower of truth, would need to accept it.

Jesus never accepted/preached such claims.

Can you show where Jesus corrected Thomas and said, “You should not call me God. I am NOT God”?