If life does not begin at conception why does Planned Parenthood hand out so many condoms?

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marietta said:
sodak:

I have been curious about why my childhood impressions of Catholicism have lain so heavily on my shoulders, so that I’ve not been able to look back or look forward, and I’ve had to spend every today in a box of fear. I thought that the stuff jammed down my seven-year-old throat might actually have been digested by now. It has not. It sticks in my gut and contaminates my days, and it has for 40 years. There was a time when I thought a return to Catholicism might give me some comfort and structure. That time is gone. You have amplified for me everything negative about Catholicism.

My intuition has lead me away from the razor wire. I think God is looking out for me, whether you think I deserve it or not. At least He has enough imagination to embrace diversity.

marietta
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Maybe what’s bothering you isn’t your Catholic upbringing, but your guilty conscience about having an abortion. I’m not saying that just to be mean; it’s a real possibility. You can’t have an abortion without having some sense of grief or guilt associated with it.
 
sodak said:
We finally get to it. The altar of diversity.

Try God’s Truth for a change. Try conforming to His will, instead of insisting He conform to yours.
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Well abortion is very diverse. Nearly 40% of those killed are minorities and over 50% are women,
 
mapleoak said:
Reproduction is a gift from God not a right. A gift to use how He wants, not how we want. Claiming a non-existant right is akin to saying thanks for the gift, I am going to do my own thing with it though, sorry. That to put it lightly. In reality, with regards to sexual reproduction, using that gift in a matter other than God intended, is a greivous matter…
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There is nothing in scripture that states PRECISELY how God wishes that gift to be exercised; it therefore becomes a matter of individual conscience.

You cannot validly claim that the dictates of your own conscience must be imposed upon or shared with your neighbor.

According to Genesis, God made woman in order to give man a help suitable for him, and he gave the couple the gift of sexual desire. He then told them to be fruitful, that is certainly true, but nowhere is it even implied that that is the sole purpose of sexual desire between spouses.

St. Paul also advises single people that it is better to marry than to fall into temptation, and the message here is clearly one of legitimizing sexual desire through matrimony, a union blessed by the Lord. That children will follow is assumed, but that is not the focus of Paul’s admonition, nor does the Church regard sexual relations between married couples unable to conceive as illicit.

So, to put it bluntly, follow your own conscience and let the rest of us do the same.
 
beeliner said:
There is nothing in scripture that states PRECISELY how God wishes that gift to be exercised; it therefore becomes a matter of individual conscience.

You cannot validly claim that the dictates of your own conscience must be imposed upon or shared with your neighbor.

According to Genesis, God made woman in order to give man a help suitable for him, and he gave the couple the gift of sexual desire. He then told them to be fruitful, that is certainly true, but nowhere is it even implied that that is the sole purpose of sexual desire between spouses.

St. Paul also advises single people that it is better to marry than to fall into temptation, and the message here is clearly one of legitimizing sexual desire through matrimony, a union blessed by the Lord. That children will follow is assumed, but that is not the focus of Paul’s admonition, nor does the Church regard sexual relations between married couples unable to conceive as illicit.

So, to put it bluntly, follow your own conscience and let the rest of us do the same.
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I see you are as confused about the church’s teaching on a well formed conscience as you are about their teachings on abortion.
 
*"We finally get to it. The altar of diversity.

Try God’s Truth for a change. Try conforming to His will, instead of insisting He conform to yours."*

Rude. Succinct, but rude.

marietta
 
estesbob said:
I see you are as confused about the church’s teaching on a well formed conscience as you are about their teachings on abortion.
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This has become a long thread, but I do not remember making any reference whatever to the latter. If I have forgotten something, perhaps you can give a link.

Regarding the former, I cannot think of anyone that I would be LESS likely to consult on that subject than yourself.

Instead of making a personal attack, why not respond to the specific points of the post?
 
marietta said:
Quite the opposite has been true for me: I have been inspired by this forum to be a non-Catholic and, dare I say it?, maybe an anti-Catholic. I have had a front-row seat to evaluate what Catholicism is all about. I understand it’s not about you or me. But what you have all shown me is that Catholics are unable or unwilling to carry their message of faith, love, and hope in a manner in which it might actually be accessible and, therefore, useful to anyone outside the faith. I have been curious about why my childhood impressions of Catholicism have lain so heavily on my shoulders, so that I’ve not been able to look back or look forward, and I’ve had to spend every today in a box of fear. I thought that the stuff jammed down my seven-year-old throat might actually have been digested by now. It has not. It sticks in my gut and contaminates my days, and it has for 40 years. There was a time when I thought a return to Catholicism might give me some comfort and structure. That time is gone. You have amplified for me everything negative about Catholicism.

My intuition has lead me away from the razor wire. I think God is looking out for me, whether you think I deserve it or not. At least He has enough imagination to embrace diversity.

marietta
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I also found myself helped out of Catholicism by these forums, it has that effect as many people here have so much esteem for the Almighty, they confuse him with themselves. Heck some embrace a stricter form of Catholicism than Benedict preaches!

Catholicism isn’t really an awful faith. I would advise against it for politicians, unless they want to follow the Church’s line on all issues, but other than that people of all walks can make it work.

If it doesn’t speak to you though, then find something that does. I found my way back in a crooked walk (via the Episcopalians) to the religion I had been reared in. At that time, I was not considered a Jew because of my mixed parentage, now the accepted rules have changed, so I could find my way back.

If you’re looking then faiths you might consider are the Orthodox Christian faith, long on ritual, mysticism and personal relationships with the priest, not as rigid on the letter of the laws; the Society of Friends–a beautiful faith and the first in the nation to speak out against slavery; the Episcopal Church–runs the gamut from Anglo-Catholic to Reformation Protestant depending on the parish; the Mennonites–long on forgiveness and grace; and the Lutherans–runs the gamut depending on the synod. Of course, other options abound both within and outside Christianity.
 
a_cermak:

I thank you for your openness and for sharing your ideas about my finding a faith that works for me.

Here it seems Catholicism is a toy being fought over by a group of selfish children. “You can’t have it because you can’t or won’t understand it!!” (even though forgiveness, tolerance and service are, if I remember correctly, cornerstones of the faith).

It makes me weary. I’m grateful to have found a loving God through the Steps and Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. That has made more sense to me than anything I’ve read here.

marietta
 
beeliner said:
This has become a long thread, but I do not remember making any reference whatever to the latter. If I have forgotten something, perhaps you can give a link.

Regarding the former, I cannot think of anyone that I would be LESS likely to consult on that subject than yourself.

Instead of making a personal attack, why not respond to the specific points of the post?
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I did-I pointed out you dont understand the teachings of the Church on conscience.
 
marietta said:
a_cermak:

I. I’m grateful to have found a loving God through the Steps and Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. That has made more sense to me than anything I’ve read here.

marietta
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One thing that becomes apparent when you are addicted-you can’t pray your way out of it . Like you AA saved my life.
 
Mystic_of_God said:
Then you would have a sense of guilt about being on drugs. 😃

(I love weak arguments.)
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You are very blessed that you never had a problem with addiction. Your comment shows such a profound ignorance of the problems of addiction that it nearly takes one’s breath away.
 
To Marietta and a_cermak:

Come on you guys, the internet isn’t the real world! People behave in ways here that they never would in person. It’s true for me; I’m guessing it’s true for both of you too. That has its good points and its bad points–we are free to talk about issues anonymously and honestly, which is good, but we often forget there is a real person on the other end and we lose charity, which is bad.

Still, there must be something about the Catholic Church that is drawing you, or you wouldn’t be here. Chesterton says the Catholic Church has the unique power of keeping remote control over human souls which have once been part of her. Like the fisherman’s line, which allows the fish the illusion of free play in the water and yet has him by the hook; in his own time the fisherman by a ‘twitch upon the thread’ draws the fish to land.
 
marietta said:
*"We finally get to it. The altar of diversity.

Try God’s Truth for a change. Try conforming to His will, instead of insisting He conform to yours."*

Rude. Succinct, but rude.

marietta
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There’s nothing rude about it. It’s the simple truth. I already told you, being passive-aggressive doesn’t work with me at all.

When people switch from factual discussions to personal attacks, that usually means they just lost the debate.
 
sodak:

Show me specifically where I have insisted that God bend to my will.

I have demanded nothing of God.

marietta
 
marietta said:
sodak:

Show me specifically where I have insisted that God bend to my will.

I have demanded nothing of God.

marietta
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Post 13 is a good example. You consistently argue against and challenge the Church’s teachings. When you rebel against the Church, you are rebelling against God, insisting that your way is the correct way. Why don’t you try and look at it from the other side?
 
sodak:

Post # 13 merely states the Catholic Church’s position on sexual activity, birth control and sex education. Nowhere in this post did I “insist that God bend to my will”, nor did I even state what my will is.

I have looked at these issues from another side. As a cradle Catholic I wrestled with them in a home where no mention was ever made of sex, procreation, or love, for that matter.

I am not rebelling against the Church. I would say this is more like a divorce.

marietta
 
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