If Mary was the mother of God...

[sixofseven]

How can Mary be the mother of God, when God came in the form of MAN ?

If I turn my pen into paper, and I sell it, am I selling the paper or the pen? (This is just for understanding).

You just said it yourself! GOD came in the form of MAN, MARY is the MOTHER of that MAN, MARY is the MOTHER of GOD!

I don’t quite understand your analogy but I suppose the paper contains the pen as Christ’s Divinity was contained in His humanity. You can’t sell it separately now because the pen is on the paper as you can’t divide Christ as His Divinity is in His humanity.

Can God be killed? If God cannot be killed, how was Jesus killed? It is obvious that Jesus had a portion of him that was HUMAN. Now THAT, is what Mary gave birth to.

Jesus doesn’t have portions! Fully human and fully God. A Divine Person. THIS is what Mary gave birth to. Was she the source of His divinity, no. Nevertheless, He was born of her a divine person. This does not mean she is ONLY the mother of His humanity because His humanity IS divine.

It’s like giving birth to a child who has blue eyes, when the mother has brown. Does this mean she did not create his eyes? She is not the SOURCE of the BLUE in the child’s eyes but she is the child’s mother in the childs’ entirity.

If God did not die on the cross, then you’re saying Jesus is not God.

Now, God did NOT die in the sense that He ceased to exist. His human body experienced death as our human bodies experience death, His Divinity remained alive as our souls remain alive for eternity. He was reunited with His body as we will be reunited with our bodies. His humanity and Divinity make up the whole person as our body and soul make up the whole person.

 

[sixofseven]

If Mary did not give birth to Divinity, how can she be the mother of that Divinity???

By the very fact that that Divinity chose to be born a man through her. As I said, she is not the mother of the divinity but the person who is divine.

 

[LilyM]

Question, Rumpel:

If I have some tomato seeds and plant them in your garden, so that you do all the work of watering and tending them every day for many months until they grow into a full-fruited tomato bush - are those tomatos yours or mine?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Question, Rumpel:

If I have some tomato seeds and plant them in your garden, so that you do all the work of watering and tending them every day for many months until they grow into a full-fruited tomato bush - are those tomatos yours or mine?

If I take care of your child, does your child belong to me?

 

[LilyM]

If I take care of your child, does your child belong to me?

If, like Mary, you bear that child in your womb for nine months, giving of your own blood so that it might grow (as birth mothers do), endure social disgrace and potentially stoning to death for being pregnant with it, go through all the agonies of labour to give birth to it, go into exile in a strange land to save its life, sorrow at its loss and rejoice at its finding again, raise it 24/7 until that child comes to manhood, accompany that man in his final death agonies, and your own heart is pierced by a sword at his death …

then you are truly its mother and in that sense yes, that child belongs to you (and its father, of course) without any question. If you have to ask, then it’s almost certain you’ve never given birth to or raised a child.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

If, like Mary, you bear that child in your womb for nine months, giving of your own blood so that it might grow (as birth mothers do), endure social disgrace and potentially stoning to death for being pregnant with it, go through all the agonies of labour to give birth to it, go into exile in a strange land to save its life, sorrow at its loss and rejoice at its finding again, raise it 24/7 until that child comes to manhood, accompany that man in his final death agonies, and your own heart is pierced by a sword at his death …

then you are truly its mother and in that sense yes, that child belongs to you (and its father, of course) without any question. If you have to ask, then it’s almost certain you’ve never given birth to or raised a child.

No grey area is allowed here. Mary did not give birth to divinity. That is the undeniable fact. For her functional role as mother, she may be granted the title of mother of the Son of Man. But not the mother of God because God is spirit and she did not give birth to that.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

If I take care of your child, does your child belong to me?

If you give birth to my male child then you are his mother. If my child were the Second Person of the Trinity, that would make you the mother of God. It would not make you my mother, nor would it make you my child’s grandmother. Your initial question blurs the distinction between the three distinct Persons of the Trinity - each having the fullness of divinity.

Mary is not the mother of the godhead, or the Trinity. She is the mother of Jesus Christ - who is the Second Person of the Trinity. As such, He is God, and Mary is truly His mother, because He has a fully human nature in addition to His fully divine nature.

Arguments against this reasoning are pure sophistry.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

If you give birth to my male child then you are his mother. If my child were the Second Person of the Trinity, that would make you the mother of God. It would not make you my mother, nor would it make you my child’s grandmother. Your initial question blurs the distinction between the three distinct Persons of the Trinity - each having the fullness of divinity.

Mary is not the mother of the godhead, or the Trinity. She is the mother of Jesus Christ - who is the Second Person of the Trinity. As such, He is God, and Mary is truly His mother, because He has a fully human nature in addition to His fully divine nature.

Arguments against this reasoning are pure sophistry.

Peace,
Robert

The Divinity of Jesus was not borne by Mary. Whether or not Jesus is divine has nothing to do with Mary.

 

[Tietjen]

LOL You don’t win arguments by putting words in other people’s mouths. You only fool yourself.

See now I am confused again. Just when I thought that I might be understanding what you were saying. Okay, so now you contend that the Christ did NOT shed His divinity. He WAS God. Okay, I’ll agree with that then. The Christ was God and He was born. Peace brother.

 

[LilyM]

No grey area is allowed here. Mary did not give birth to divinity. That is the undeniable fact. For her functional role as mother, she may be granted the title of mother of the Son of Man. But not the mother of God because God is spirit and she did not give birth to that.

Obama’s mother didn’t give birth to Presidency either. But she IS nonetheless mother of the President.

This is possible because Obama alone is not the Presidency. Nor is Jesus alone the sum total of Divinity - the TRINITY is, THREE persons, to two of whom Mary is not mother. Each invividual person IS equally God, though. Just as Obama is equally President with every one of his predecessors.

You’re spirit too, remember - and God-given spirit, no less, that spirit not having been created by your parents. But your mother didn’t just give birth to your body, rather she gave birth to a whole person, body AND spirit. The whole Rumpel. So she’s ‘Mother of Rumpel.’ Not just ‘Mother of Rumpel’s body’.

 

[Tietjen]

Whether or not Jesus is divine has nothing to do with Mary.

You’re right, Mary didn’t cause Christ’s divinity. That doesn’t prove that she was not His mother however.

 

[LilyM]

The Divinity of Jesus was not borne by Mary. Whether or not Jesus is divine has nothing to do with Mary.

And the Presidency of Obama was not borne by his mother either. She is still, of course, mother of the President.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

And the Presidency of Obama was not borne by his mother either. She is still, of course, mother of the President.

And when Obama steps down? She’s the mother of who? The new president? Perhaps, if Obama has a brother and he wins the next election.

Mary was the mother of Jesus…who prayed to God in heaven. Did Jesus pray to Himself? No. Jesus prayed to God.

The Bible is already very clear on this. God is Spirit. And Mary did not give birth to that Spirit.

.

 

[Tietjen]

Mary was the mother of Jesus…who prayed to God in heaven. Did Jesus pray to Himself? No. Jesus prayed to God.

The Bible is already very clear on this. God is Spirit. And Mary did not give birth to that Spirit.

All sarcasm aside, can I ask you what denomination you consider yourself? I honestly have not encountered any Christians who deny Jesus Christ as being God.

 

[LilyM]

And when Obama steps down? She’s the mother of who? The new president? Perhaps, if Obama has a brother and he wins the next election.

Where does the Bible indicate that being divine is something one can ever ‘resign’ from? For an instant, let alone for 30-odd years?

Moreover, Jesus being conceived of the Holy Spirit, as you say, He clearly then never DID ‘resign’ His divinity, even when He took on humanity.

Mary was the mother of Jesus…who prayed to God in heaven. Did Jesus pray to Himself? No. Jesus prayed to God.

The Bible is already very clear on this. God is Spirit. And Mary did not give birth to that Spirit…

So Jesus in fact was not God at all. Not divinity in any sense. God was really just some distant, entirely separate being with whom Jesus had no closer relationship than the rest of us who pray to Him.

Thanks for clearing that up - so WHAT THE FNERK did the Holy Spirit conceive in Mary’s womb then? Nothing at all? Were there twins in Mary’s womb, perhaps, one with a fleshly body and the other an entirely spiritual being and never the twain shall meet?

Are you perhaps Muslim, never DID believe in any form of Incarnation and have just been laughing at us the whole time? You may as well be, you know.

 

[MartinJordan]

This thread’s value is diminishing. Let the OP have it.

MJ

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Where does the Bible indicate that being divine is something one can ever ‘resign’ from? For an instant, let alone for 30-odd years?

Moreover, Jesus being conceived of the Holy Spirit, as you say, He clearly then never DID ‘resign’ His divinity, even when He took on humanity.

So Jesus in fact was not God at all. Not divinity in any sense. God was really just some distant, entirely separate being with whom Jesus had no closer relationship than the rest of us who pray to Him.

Thanks for clearing that up - so WHAT THE FNERK did the Holy Spirit conceive in Mary’s womb then? Nothing at all? Were there twins in Mary’s womb, perhaps, one with a fleshly body and the other an entirely spiritual being and never the twain shall meet?

Are you perhaps Muslim, never DID believe in any form of Incarnation and have just been laughing at us the whole time? You may as well be, you know.

Note, NOT MY words…
**
John 4:24 God is Spirit**

So, why was Jesus God? Because He had the flesh? No. Because He had the Spirit of God (in Him).

.

 

[LilyM]

Note, NOT MY words…
**
John 4:24 God is Spirit**

So, why was Jesus God? Because He had the flesh? No. Because He had the Spirit of God (in Him).

.

For purposes of determining Mary’s status it doesn’t matter the tiniest bit WHY Jesus is God. All that matters that He IS God, which you’ve just said and acknowledged. HE, not part nor portion of Him, but HE, Jesus. And Mary IS His mother, and as such Mother of God.

In like manner, as long as Obama IS President, his mother is Mother of the President. The reasons he attained office, and the way he became President, don’t change that in the slightest.

And unlike Obama and other Presidents, Jesus never “resigned” His divinity in any way, shape or form, not even at the instant of His conception and never will “resign” it So Mary’s child never has ceased, since the moment of His conception, and never will cease being, at one and the same time both divine and human. Both God and Man.

And just as your mother is mother of both spirit and body, though she didn’t play any part in creating your spirit, so Mary is the mother of both Jesus’ spirit and body, even though the spirit was the Holy Spirit.

 

[WetCatechumen]

I haven’t read all the postings in this thread, so probably someone has suggested what I am about to suggest.

God, according to Christian doctrine, was truly man and truly God. Okay. It strikes me that Mary was the mother of his humanity, so to speak. She provided the flesh and blood and all that goes into creating a child.

However, this is not the same as being the mother of God. Christ's divinity came from the Holy Spirit. Hence, I find myself resisting the doctrine that Mary was the Mother of God. God was always, eternal. God has no mother or father. The human Jesus had a mother, and that was Mary. 

 It seems to me that this is in line with the dogma that Christ was fully human and fully divine. 

 In all honesty, I have felt for some time that certain segments of Catholicism dangerously rub shoulders with paganism when they elevate Mary to Queen of Heaven along with numerous similar accolades. I find that being mother of Jesus is quite admirable enough without making her into - essentially - a goddess. It can seem that in many local situations she receives more attention sometimes than Jesus. In this community we have five Catholic churches and three are named to glorify Mary, two after saints, none after Christ or the Trinity.

  It interests me that Mary receives such deep, deep devotion from an all-male priesthood. I wonder how psychologists might view this.  I can only guess.

  Mary is to be honored, of course, but veneration so often seems to turn into what appears to be worship.

Hi Nestorius. When you say, “The human Jesus”, it implies that there is a “divine Jesus,” which means two different people.

Please recant.

There is a single divine and human Jesus, who has a mother. She is the mother of a man and she is the mother of God, because humanity was united to divinity in a single person.

 

[smithm29]

I am flesh and spirit, my mother is still my mother, and my Creator is still my Creator.