If Mary was the mother of God...

[moondweller]

Dear MD,

Thank you for answering my questions.

You’re very welcome, MT2.

I see now the limitations as to why we do not understand one another.

It’s not a matter of understanding. I do understand the content of your posts. It’s a matter of acceptance based on evidence or lack of it.

May the Fullness of the Love of Jesus Christ and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit be with you.

Thank you, MT2. And as said previously, may you “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

 

[KathleenGee]

In OT, Miriam means ‘bitter’. It was Our Lady’s former name. And she, like Peter, was renamed.

Christ gave Peter the power to bind and what would be bound on earth, would be bound in heaven. The seat of Peter is the visible presence of Christ as ruler within.

The Church renamed Miriam to the Latin, Maria, full of grace, sea of grace, North Star our guiding light.

Through Christ, the believers of Christ became the new Israel…those who seek the truth.

Mary, as perfect, represents all believers in the New Jerusalem, the New Israel. Check out Hebrewcatholic.org…the Jews are now more fulfilled as Jews in the Catholic Church than before…

We are at the beginning of the ingrafting of the Gentile tree to the Jewish tree, the two lamp posts.

 

[iluvburpees]

But the finite cannot give “birth” to the Infinite.

Except…she did.

Luke 1:31 - “Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.”

Luke 1:35 - “And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Seems like Mary gave birth to Jesus after all. That is, if one doesn’t want to deny Scripture.

And, as has been logically proven over and over again:

Jesus = God
Mary = Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary = Mother of God.

This is the kind of stuff a kid can probably learn and understand in 4th grade. God isn’t complicated, but men make things complicated, and that is when they decide that “impossible” things couldn’t happen. And that is why our scientific geniuses of our day and age cannot find God, because they want the answers to everything. They want everything to be revealed to them. They don’t want to accept that God doesn’t play by our rules.

I have an idea for Protestants and anyone else denying the maternity of Mary. Pretend that you are looking at it unbiased, and simply look at these scriptural passages. Just read them. What do they tell you?

Lets start with Luke 1:43 - [Elizabeth to Mary] “And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

“Well, Elizabeth wasn’t infallible. She may have just been so excited as to have uttered a some words that…”

EXCUSE ME?!?!?!? Elizabeth was FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST!! Are you saying that God is lying?!?!?

“Well, uh, when she said ‘Lord,’ how do we know that she meant God?”

TAKE OFF YOUR SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS GLASSES. WHO THE HECK ELSE COULD SHE HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO???

Luke 19:26-27 - “When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother.”

“Well, Christ was referring to Mary as his earthly mother - as the one who raised him, the one who bore him, but not really his mother.”

Let’s consult a dictionary, shall we?

From thefreedictionary.com, “mother” means:

a. A female person who is pregnant with or gives birth to a child.

Mary did the above.

b. A female person whose egg unites with a sperm, resulting in the conception of a child.

Through the power of the Holy Ghost, she was able to conceive.

c. A woman who adopts a child.

Obviously not Mary, according to Scripture. But this only proves that Mary, not having adopted Jesus, could only have truly borne him.

d. A woman who raises a child.

That would be Mary.

Feel free to continue super-analyzing why Mary is not the Mother of Jesus, and thus the Mother of God, even though it says so right in your Bible. However, I have to go pray to Our Lord now…through His most Holy Mother, of course.

Hail Mary, full of grace.

 

[adstrinity]

Proof?Proof?

If you accept this type of reasoning then do you accept what the “new-agers” claim of Him? That between the ages of 12 and 30 He traveled to the far east and studied under Hindu gurus. Of course you couldn’t deny it since you accept other nonbiblical, speculative accounts about Him. One man’s account is as good as another’s.Yet Scripture testifies to no such encounter. But it does tell us, specifically, all the others He did appear to - but this encounter with Mary we must trust to mere speculation.

The proof is in the wording.

I showed you how it could be inferred, not deducted, but, inferred. It could be that it’s not in the Bible because it was just that: private. The only people who would know FOR SURE are God and His Mother. The Gospels are about giving Jesus to all, Jesus assuring His Mother (specifically) that He is alive and well is not needed for men’s salvation, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

The difference with what the New Agers claim and what Catholics claim is that Catholics have been claiming it for over 50 years.

You believe what you’d like, but, understand, God loved and loves His Mother; why of ALL the people who followed Him would He not go to Her? Why wouldn’t He let the Woman who brought Him into this world see Him? THAT does not make sense. Logically think about it. I cannot do anything more than ask you to think this through logically, do not let your pride get in the way, and don’t let the devil provoke you into anger about this. Pray that God leads you to logic to understand the ways of His unconditional love. Please.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

I do not ever pray to Mary. I follow the instruction given by Christ Himself in Scripture that I am to pray directly to the Father in His name. Can you show me where Christ instructs us to pray to Mary?

I believe it was at the last moments of His life, when He was hanging on the cross, if He could talk to His Mother despite suffering on the Cross, should not we (whether we are in good health or suffering) follow His example?

There is a difference between prayer and worship. You only worship God; you can if you want pray (or talk) to Mary, the Angels, and Saints, without feeling guilty of worshipping them. You don’t use them as a mean until themselves, but use them as means to pray to Jesus on your behalf or on the behalf of someone less fortunate in need of prayer. The Mary, the Angels & Saints are all part of the family of God and if you are Baptized so are you, and **no where **in the Bible does it say once you become a part of the family of God through Baptized you are no longer allowed to communicate with any that are part of his family.

 

[KathleenGee]

Mary makes the Church a family. We are of the Christian brotherhood.

Jesus revealed to us God as Father. He gave us Mary for our heavenly Mother. We are called to love our neighbor as brethren. Nothing pleases God than that.

The restoration of the world is found in the restoration of the family…we are family. No more divorce.

Mary’s great work is making us family.

 

[placido]

Just answer me this. Can God be borne?

I think He “can”. To say “He can not” is the same as saying that God is not really Almighty.

placido

 

[Dokimas]

I think He “can”. To say “He can not” is the same as saying that God is not really Almighty.

placido

I disagree. IMO, to say God could be born (come into existance) would be to say He is NOT Almighty.

Of course, definition is key.

 

[placido]

To say that Jesus is in the Father God, and the Father in Him, and then say that the son came about through the mother with the help of the Father is totally wrong because before Mary was, Jesus was (since Jesus Himself said He was even before Abraham). Mary therefore is something that only existed BECAUSE of Jesus. Not the other way around. Note the order here.

Total confusion! Allegedly Mary can not be Jesus’ mother because Jesus existed before Mary. But what does the Bible say? It says over and over again that Mary is the mother of Jesus!!!

placido

 

[GaryTaylor]

I disagree. IMO, to say God could be born (come into existance) would be to say He is NOT Almighty.

Of course, definition is key.

And of course In you opinion, you would know what God could or couldn’t do?

 

[Dokimas]

And of course In you opinion, you would know what God could or couldn’t do?

If my opinion matches God’s Truth, yes. If not, no.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It’s a matter of acceptance based on evidence or lack of it.Thank you-Moondweller

The hard evidence you pretend to seek? You’ll never find until you believe. Thats just the hard, cold truth.

But Mary is the Mother of God, there is no doubt about that. And receives “all” his Grace. More than all the Saints or anyone else.

Listen Bro, nobody can “make” you understand. Nobody can make you Love or Accept. Once you soften your Heart and allow Mary to work in your life. Then it becomes Crystal Clear.

But I hear you, believe me I thought exactly like you do for many years. And yet I’ve never felt as close to God as I do today through Mary. Thats not to say God and the Bible alone hasn’t worked in my life, because it has. Just didn’t work quite effectively until I totally involved myself into Mary.

Let me explain something to you. I watched a family member pray the Rosary for my entire life. Yet I chose to be hard headed and insist I could do this my own way and on my own terms, With simple belief and the Bible. Though I was born into the Catholic Faith and received all the Sacrements. There was always something not right. I always thought it was me. And maybe I just wasn’t gonna get these blessings from God? Yet I always knew I wasn’t as bad as many others out here? But regardless on-ward I pushed.

Well after 2/3s of my life, it dawned on me that the only person GODs love was truly working in that “I” could honestly see. Was the one praying the Rosary daily.

I learned a very long time ago that Pride, is like trying to carry a Fish Tank up a Hill. It just doesn’t work. So I put it down, and started Praying the Rosary. And its worked faster than all the effort of the other 2/3s of life put together?

Now I could be wrong, but I don’t believe so. And I am 100% convienced that anyone who gives this a Honest effort, will agree. Matter of Fact what you NEVER-EVER see here? Is anyone who will tell you I have Prayed the Rosary and gave it a honest effort and it doesn’t work. Those people don’t exist. No such creature. Think about it. Search the posts, your looking for hard evidence?

God Bless, GT

 

[GaryTaylor]

If my opinion matches God’s Truth, yes. If not, no.

Your perception is though an ill concieved self understanding, And while one may be saved that way? Look at those being saved through Mary? It can’t be denied, its in every country and covers the world.

 

[Dokimas]

Your perception is though an ill concieved self understanding, And while one may be saved that way? Look at those being saved through Mary? It can’t be denied, its in every country and covers the world.

There’s but One Name given under Heaven by which anyone can be saved.

Acts 4:
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No offense to the wonderful woman that bore Jesus, but I don’t see her name in Acts 4.

Thanks for **your **opinion.

 

[placido]

There’s but One Name given under Heaven by which anyone can be saved.

Acts 4:
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No offense to the wonderful woman that bore Jesus, but I don’t see her name in Acts 4.

Thanks for **your **opinion.

Apostle Paul did “save” some. Mary is “saving” some. Preachers of the true gospel are “saving” some …
The problem is some of you guys prefer to understand savaltion in one sense only, i.e that “only Jesus can save”.

placido

 

[Dokimas]

Apostle Paul did “save” some. Mary is “saving” some. Preachers of the true gospel are “saving” some …
The problem is some of you guys prefer to understand savaltion in one sense only, i.e that “only Jesus can save”.

placido

It was ONLY the Blood of Jesus that paid for our sins, not preachers, not Paul, not Mary.

There’s only One Savior, thus only One that saves. The best we can do, is bring the lost to the Savior.

 

[moondweller]

Total confusion! Allegedly Mary can not be Jesus’ mother because Jesus existed before Mary. But what does the Bible say? It says over and over again that Mary is the mother of Jesus!!!

placido

It says that Mary was the mother of Jesus because Jesus did not exist before Mary. What the Bible does not say is that Mary was the mother of God because… (you fill in the blank).

 

[moondweller]

It’s a matter of acceptance based on evidence or lack of it.Thank you-Moondweller

You’re welcome.

The hard evidence you pretend to seek?

Pretend?

You’ll never find until you believe. Thats just the hard, cold truth.

True Christian faith is not BLIND faith. True Christian faith is based on divinely REVEALED truth. It’s what separates it from all the other “faiths” on earth. It’s faith in God’s Word. The prime example:Gen 15:6 "Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness."Abraham’s faith was not a BLIND faith.

But Mary is the Mother of God, there is no doubt about that. And receives “all” his Grace. More than all the Saints or anyone else.

Proof?

 

[placido]

It was ONLY the Blood of Jesus that paid for our sins, not preachers, not Paul, not Mary.

Exactly. Only the blood of Jesus paid for our sins. That we know and that we believe.

There’s only One Savior, thus only One that saves. The best we can do, is bring the lost to the Savior.

And that is what Mary does. And that is what Paul did when he expressed the hope of “saving some” … was Paul mistaken?

placido

 

[placido]

It says that Mary was the mother of Jesus because Jesus did not exist before Mary. What the Bible does not say is that Mary was the mother of God because… (you fill in the blank).

The Bible says exactly the opposite of what you say. It says Mary is Mother of God, but you apparently don’t believe what the Bible says.

Isaiah 7:14 KJV: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

Isaiah 9:6 KJV: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Luke 1:43, KJV: “And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

placido