If masturbation is a grave sin, why isn't gluttony as well?

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Dorothy said:
How can you state that it is “essentially harmless in moderation for a single,unattached person.” ?
The Church’s teachings on faith and morals is correct, and for our sanctification. These moral directives are in place because God loves us and desires our salvation. It would be helpful for you to read about “The Theology of the Body”, and you will see the wonder and beauty of sex that God created, since you think that the Catholic Church places “peculiar emphasis on sexual matters.”

Self-gratification is certainly harmful. It is about seeking sexual pleasure outside of marriage. It sets a bad habit in place because in marriage sexual relations is not just all about self-gratification, but a holy self-giving act ordained by God for procreation, and the unity of the couple.
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That is your opinion and your belief, which you are certainly entitled to, but it is not a reasoned, fact-based argument.
 
TedDC said:
That is your opinion and your belief, which you are certainly entitled to, but it is not a reasoned, fact-based argument.
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False. What the Church teaches, she teaches because it is the truth. It is not truth because the Church teaches it. Please get this distinction.

Some truth can be assertain through right reason. Other truths are only available through revelation from God. Still others require the cooperation of reason and revelation.

Fact base arguments have been presented. As far as I can tell you have rejected these fact based arguments based purely on you own opinion and belief.
 
davidv said:
False. What the Church teaches, she teaches because it is the truth. It is not truth because the Church teaches it. Please get this distinction.
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That is your belief. Believing something does not make it the truth.
 
Janet_S said:
Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and psychologist Sigmund Freud thought masturbation was wrong.

Only recently have people accepted masturbation and even encouraged it. It has not always been so, as evidenced by the examples above, and neither of them based their arguments on religion. Both were enemies of the Catholic Church.
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So what does any of that prove?
 
TedDC said:
So what does any of that prove?
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That when our culture was still civilized, masturbation was universally considered a disorder, even by people who, even by our low standards, were considered beneath contempt. Even today, teenagers instinctively understand that other teens who masturbate have something seriously the matter with them - they are dreadfully lonely, depressed, and difficult to be around - they tend to become targets of bullying and derision.
 
If you want to argue about masturbation, go to a masturbation forum, though I find it very hard to believe that anyone is arguing that masturbation is not a grave sin…

This thread is about gluttony! If you don’t have anything constructive to say about gluttony find a different thread…
 
TedDC said:
So what does any of that prove?
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It proves that there **are **arguments against masturbation that are not based on Church teaching. I answered in response to this:
Originally Posted by TedDC
I have never seen a convincing explanation, which doesn’t make reference to Church teaching or the Church’s interpretation of natural law, as to why masturbation is inherently wrong.
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If you want to discover what these arguments are, you can read what Margaret Sanger and Sigmund Freud had to say. They both argued that masturbation is damaging to the mind and to future sexual relationships.

In a nutshell, the purpose of sexual desire is to draw people together. Masturbation doesn’t do that, so it thwarts its natural purpose, and thus goes against the natural law.
 
jmcrae said:
That when our culture was still civilized, masturbation was universally considered a disorder, even by people who, even by our low standards, were considered beneath contempt. Even today, teenagers instinctively understand that other teens who masturbate have something seriously the matter with them - they are dreadfully lonely, depressed, and difficult to be around - they tend to become targets of bullying and derision.
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So you accept the judgment of bullying teenagers as a moral authority?
 
TedDC said:
So you accept the judgment of bullying teenagers as a moral authority?
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It’s only one of many signifiers, but surely, natural human instinct plays at least a small role, does it not?
 
jmcrae said:
It’s only one of many signifiers, but surely, natural human instinct plays at least a small role, does it not?
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Do you mean human instincts like fear and hatred of people who look different from us, like rape, like wars of conquest? I thought morality was supposed to move us above mere instinct, not be defined by it.
 
TedDC said:
Do you mean human instincts like fear and hatred of people who look different from us, like rape, like wars of conquest? I thought morality was supposed to move us above mere instinct, not be defined by it.
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Yes, we are to be above our instincts, and I am in no way condoning bullying, as such, but does not the fact that we are naturally repelled by the effects of the behaviour on someone’s personality show that it is not, in fact, a “private” or harmless sin?

Obviously, we need to have pity on these lonely souls, rather than bullying them, but it still shows that there is something wrong with these people - something pitiable.
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, we are to be above our instincts, and I am in no way condoning bullying, as such, but does not the fact that we are naturally repelled by the effects of the behaviour on someone’s personality show that it is not, in fact, a “private” or harmless sin?
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Is shows nothing of the kind. First of all, how do these bullys even know that their victim masturbates? And what effects on personality are you referring to? How does bullying show that masturbation is not private or harmless?
Obviously, we need to have pity on these lonely souls, rather than bullying them, but it still shows that there is something wrong with these people - something pitiable.
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The fact that someone is bullied shows there’s something wrong or pitiable about them?
 
TedDC said:
Is shows nothing of the kind. First of all, how do these bullys even know that their victim masturbates?
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Because of the dead-looking colour of their skin, and the fact that they don’t socialize very much, preferring to be alone in their room for many hours at a time.
 
jmcrae said:
Because of the dead-looking colour of their skin, and the fact that they don’t socialize very much, preferring to be alone in their room for many hours at a time.
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And you know this how…?
 
TedDC said:
And furthermore, gluttony causes far greater harm to the individual (and often to his family, and society in general) than masturbation, which is essentially harmless in moderation for a single, unattached person. I think some of the disparity simply reflects the peculiar emphasis that the Catholic Church places on sexual matters.
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Fat people overeat. Period. They are taking in more calories that they expend. It is true that it gets harder to keep a normal weight as one ages, but it’s still possible.

Overeating helps harm the environment by contributing to the overuse of the earth’s resources. It directly harms our health, therefore our work, our families, our contribution to society, and uses up valuable health resources, which would better be used helping people with medical problems over which they have no control. Type II diabetes, which is becoming rampant and has many serious complications, is directly related to obesity. Cure the obesity (by bariatric surgery, for example) and you cure the diabetes.

And yes, the Catholic church seems preoccupied by sex.
 
anode said:
Fat people overeat.
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This is not always true, though I grant that it is typically true. There do exist certain conditions which will cause you to build fat even if you are not over eating.
 
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