If masturbation is a grave sin, why isn't gluttony as well?

[kage_ar]

And yes, the Catholic church seems preoccupied by sex.

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony?

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church’s teaching on sex?

Now, tell me, who is preoccupied - it is the public who constaintly rail agains the Church and her sexual laws.

 

[TedDC]

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony?

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church’s teaching on sex?

Now, tell me, who is preoccupied - it is the public who constaintly rail agains the Church and her sexual laws.

But how much paper has the Church generated on sexuality, versus how much on gluttony?

 

[camerong]

But how much paper has the Church generated on sexuality, versus how much on gluttony?

Its a response to the problem. If everyone in the hospital had a staph infection, the head doctor would be insane to be doing studies on polio. Today’s epidemic is sexual sin.

 

[kage_ar]

Its a response to the problem. If everyone in the hospital had a staph infection, the head doctor would be insane to be doing studies on polio. Today’s epidemic is sexual sin.

Exactly!!

 

[TedDC]

Its a response to the problem. If everyone in the hospital had a staph infection, the head doctor would be insane to be doing studies on polio. Today’s epidemic is sexual sin.

I think the world has a few more serious problems than, say, masturbation!

 

[camerong]

I think the world has a few more serious problems than, say, masturbation!

The worlds has many problems. But its pretty short-sighted to say that starvation for a few decades is a more serious problem than damnation for eternity. You will, of course, argue that sexual sins do not lead to eternal damnation. But you are accusing the Church of being irrational, and I am saying that, according to the Church’s beliefs, it is acting quite rationally.

That said, few groups are working as hard to end the material problems of the world as the Church.

 

[Janet_S]

But how much paper has the Church generated on sexuality, versus how much on gluttony?

You are missing the point of the post you are commenting on:

Originally Posted by kage_ar
Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony?

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church’s teaching on sex?

Now, tell me, who is preoccupied - it is the public who constaintly rail agains the Church and her sexual laws.

The reason why the Church has written so much about sexual matters is because the Church’s view of the purpose and meaning of sex is vastly different from the popular view one gets today from schools, in movies, and on television.

On the other hand, there’s not much of a difference between the Church’s view of gluttony and the popular view of gluttony. No one is saying it’s a good thing. Fat Catholics may be gluttonous, but they don’t usually try to rationalize their sin by saying the Church is wrong or out of step with the times. This is not so with sexual sins which many Catholics often do, rationalize that it’s okay, and deny that they are sinning.

 

[Janet_S]

I think the world has a few more serious problems than, say, masturbation!

Actually the increase of sexual sin has led to the breakdown of the family, and that is a serious problem.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Because of the dead-looking colour of their skin, and the fact that they don’t socialize very much, preferring to be alone in their room for many hours at a time.

jmcrae, while I agree with you that masturbation is wrong I think you are arguing something that goes beyond typical masturbation. What you are describing is borderline sexual addiction, and teens who do what you are describing should be referred to a counsellor. Even from a liberal “masturbation is okay” position, this is wrong. If ANY habit interferes with normal life, be it masturbation, eating, video games, or chatting on catholic forums, it’s wrong.

I work with teens too. I can tell you that I’d be shocked if any less than 75% of teens have “explored” by the time they were 18. I’m not excusing the behaviour, but people are drawn to this kind of behaviour. You only need to see an infant on a changing table to see the pull to touch oneself in a pleasuable place. The point is, teaching self control. People should NEVER be ridiculed for their sin, or judged. Be they overweight, or pasty. Besides, we don’t even know the underlying cause of the physical appearance, and to judge them directly violates the commands of Christ. Not to mention alienate the person you have treated so harshly off to the church.

The point is, we can’t judge. LOTS of teens masturbate, not just the pasty ones. Most fit it into their normal day-to-day life without it being evident. We need to be reinforcing the idea that masturbation promotes an unhealthy view of sexualty, and sets unreachable standards for spouses. Not that “if you masturbate you’ll turn pasty and have hairy hands.” Telling the truth about what it really is, is far more effective at reaching people who stuggle, rather than scaring them or alienating them.

 

[Ginkgo100]

Masturbation is bad because it’s a misuse of the sexual faculties, since God intended them as unitive and procreative, and masturbation is neither.

Why can’t the same thing be said for gluttony? One could say that God intended the digestive system as nutritive. If a person is eating simply for pleasure, even when they are full, isn’t that separating function and intention, and so sinful by the same logic that masturbation is?

As others have pointed out, gluttony can be a mortal sin too; but it is true that unlike masturbation, it is not always gravely sinful.

One reason is that while both sex and food fulfill appetites, they are nevertheless very different things. Eating ordinary food has a very limited spiritual dimension. It is primarily a natural activity. On the other hand, sex in the context God intended is a sacred act, part of the sacrament of matrimony, and a tiny foretaste of the incredible depth that is union with God in heaven. Any sexual sin is in fact a sacrilege, and for that reason such acts are always gravely sinful (assuming full knowledge and full consent are present). Sins of gluttony are not sacrilegious and therefore whether they constitute grave matter depends on the situation.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

As others have pointed out, gluttony can be a mortal sin too; but it is true that unlike masturbation, it is not always gravely sinful.

One reason is that while both sex and food fulfill appetites, they are nevertheless very different things. Eating ordinary food has a very limited spiritual dimension. It is primarily a natural activity. On the other hand, sex in the context God intended is a sacred act, part of the sacrament of matrimony, and a tiny foretaste of the incredible depth that is union with God in heaven. Any sexual sin is in fact a sacrilege, and for that reason such acts are always gravely sinful (assuming full knowledge and full consent are present). Sins of gluttony are not sacrilegious and therefore whether they constitute grave matter depends on the situation.

ooooh! Very well said! :clapping:

 

[TedDC]

As others have pointed out, gluttony can be a mortal sin too; but it is true that unlike masturbation, it is not always gravely sinful.

One reason is that while both sex and food fulfill appetites, they are nevertheless very different things. Eating ordinary food has a very limited spiritual dimension. It is primarily a natural activity. On the other hand, sex in the context God intended is a sacred act, part of the sacrament of matrimony, and a tiny foretaste of the incredible depth that is union with God in heaven. Any sexual sin is in fact a sacrilege, and for that reason such acts are always gravely sinful (assuming full knowledge and full consent are present). Sins of gluttony are not sacrilegious and therefore whether they constitute grave matter depends on the situation.

Again, all of this is in the opinion of the Catholic Church.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Again, all of this is in the opinion of the Catholic Church.

Using things outside the church, what do you think about the fact that masturbation sets unfair sexual standards, alters people’s view of sexuality (it’s about how it makes me feel), and also the fact that those who masturbate in marriage do so to the harm of their spouse. (it hurts to think that you aren’t enough to satisfy your mate.)

 

[davidv]

Again, all of this is in the opinion of the Catholic Church.

False.

Why should I accept your opinion over that of the Church?

 

[TedDC]

Using things outside the church, what do you think about the fact that masturbation sets unfair sexual standards, alters people’s view of sexuality (it’s about how it makes me feel), and also the fact that those who masturbate in marriage do so to the harm of their spouse. (it hurts to think that you aren’t enough to satisfy your mate.)

I don’t think those assertions rise to the level of “facts”; in some cases they may have some element of truth, or at least they may be perceived that way, and in other cases they are completely false. Anything can be abused; an occasional drink is generally considered harmless for most people, but it would be a serious danger for an alcoholic.

One example: it’s my understanding that some couples use masturbation as part of foreplay. In this case, it enhances intimacy, rather than detracts from it.

Or, how about an elderly widower, who simply misses the intimacy he had during years of marriage? Or a man who’s essentially unmarriageable due to age, physical appearance or disability, or other factors beyond his control? In such cases, these’s no issue of setting unfair sexual standards, and his fantasies might just as likely be about a pleasant dinner date as about wild sex with a Playboy centerfold.

Sure, there are situations where masturbation is unhealthy - or more likely, where it’s a symptom of some unhealthy condition - but there are plenty of others where it’s not. And therefore, it can’t be reasonably condemned as wrong on a “blanket” basis.

 

[davidv]

I don’t think those assertions rise to the level of “facts”; in some cases they may have some element of truth, or at least they may be perceived that way, and in other cases they are completely false. Anything can be abused; an occasional drink is generally considered harmless for most people, but it would be a serious danger for an alcoholic.

One example: it’s my understanding that some couples use masturbation as part of foreplay. In this case, it enhances intimacy, rather than detracts from it.

Or, how about an elderly widower, who simply misses the intimacy he had during years of marriage? Or a man who’s essentially unmarriageable due to age, physical appearance or disability, or other factors beyond his control? In such cases, these’s no issue of setting unfair sexual standards, and his fantasies might just as likely be about a pleasant dinner date as about wild sex with a Playboy centerfold.

Sure, there are situations where masturbation is unhealthy - or more likely, where it’s a symptom of some unhealthy condition - but there are plenty of others where it’s not. And therefore, it can’t be reasonably condemned as wrong on a “blanket” basis.

M___ is alway unhealthy to the soul.

 

[TedDC]

M___ is alway unhealthy to the soul.

Again, that’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it. But do you have any evidence to support it?

 

[davidv]

Again, that’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it. But do you have any evidence to support it?

Sure, but you won’t accept it.

 

[turtle18]

And furthermore, gluttony causes far greater harm to the individual (and often to his family, and society in general) than masturbation, which is essentially harmless in moderation for a single, unattached person. I think some of the disparity simply reflects the peculiar emphasis that the Catholic Church places on sexual matters.

You are missing the larger issue here; no pun intended. We are not talking about what is harmful to our physical, corporal bodies; we are talking about sin which harms our souls; one of the consequences of sin is that it might or might not harm our physical body. Gluttony can harm the physical body; masturbation does not harm the physical body; rather the opposite–it brings temporal physical pleasure to the body.

But this misuse of sexuality ends up destroying your soul and your relationship to other people–even if you are single. God intends for any sexual act to be done in love of a marital relationship. So you are commiting adultery against your future spouse; even if it “just with yourself” because sex is such a great gift it is something you are suppose to share and develop within the context of a marital relationship.

If God had thought masturbation to be a good thing, I think he would have just left Adam alone in the garden and would not have had any need to create Eve. Think about it.

 

[Dorothy]

I don’t think those assertions rise to the level of “facts”; in some cases they may have some element of truth, or at least they may be perceived that way, and in other cases they are completely false. Anything can be abused; an occasional drink is generally considered harmless for most people, but it would be a serious danger for an alcoholic.

One example: it’s my understanding that some couples use masturbation as part of foreplay. In this case, it enhances intimacy, rather than detracts from it.

Or, how about an elderly widower, who simply misses the intimacy he had during years of marriage? Or a man who’s essentially unmarriageable due to age, physical appearance or disability, or other factors beyond his control? In such cases, these’s no issue of setting unfair sexual standards, and his fantasies might just as likely be about a pleasant dinner date as about wild sex with a Playboy centerfold.

Sure, there are situations where masturbation is unhealthy - or more likely, where it’s a symptom of some unhealthy condition - but there are plenty of others where it’s not. And therefore, it can’t be reasonably condemned as wrong on a “blanket” basis.

In marriage, sometimes a spouse can be seriously ill for many months. This is not an excuse for the other partner to seek self-gratification.

You are rationalizing with the scenarios that you give above. All things are possible with the grace of God, that is given when it is prayed for and desired. And, with that grace comes the strength and peace of Christ.