If masturbation is a grave sin, why isn't gluttony as well?

[TedDC]

False.

Why should I accept your opinion over that of the Church?

Nobody’s asking you to - you’re free to accept whatever opinion you find the most credible.

 

[davidv]

Nobody’s asking you to - you’re free to accept whatever opinion you find the most credible.

Then why are you posting a contrary opinion?

 

[TedDC]

In marriage, sometimes a spouse can be seriously ill for many months. This is not an excuse for the other partner to seek self-gratification.

You are rationalizing with the scenarios that you give above. All things are possible with the grace of God, that is given when it is prayed for and desired. And, with that grace comes the strength and peace of Christ.

I am not rationalizing; I have no reason to. As I said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with masturbation under most circumstances.

 

[TedDC]

Then why are you posting a contrary opinion?

Why shouldn’t I?

 

[Dorothy]

I am not rationalizing; I have no reason to. As I said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with masturbation under most circumstances.

You gave several scenarios to try and garner the understanding of others as to why you think self-gratification is justified.

My response was to point out that with the grace of God all things are possible, and all can live a chaste, happy, peaceful life if they choose to.

 

[TedDC]

You are missing the larger issue here; no pun intended. We are not talking about what is harmful to our physical, corporal bodies; we are talking about sin which harms our souls; one of the consequences of sin is that it might or might not harm our physical body. Gluttony can harm the physical body; masturbation does not harm the physical body; rather the opposite–it brings temporal physical pleasure to the body.

But this misuse of sexuality ends up destroying your soul and your relationship to other people–even if you are single. God intends for any sexual act to be done in love of a marital relationship. So you are commiting adultery against your future spouse; even if it “just with yourself” because sex is such a great gift it is something you are suppose to share and develop within the context of a marital relationship.

Again, that’s an opinion.

If God had thought masturbation to be a good thing, I think he would have just left Adam alone in the garden and would not have had any need to create Eve. Think about it.

Not everyone is given the opportunity to have a companion, so perhaps God gave us the facility for self-gratification to compensate for that. And if God had thought masturbation to be such a bad thing, wouldn’t He have made self-gratification impossible?

 

[Dorothy]

Again, that’s an opinion.

Not everyone is given the opportunity to have a companion, so perhaps God gave us the facility for self-gratification to compensate for that. And if God had thought masturbation to be such a bad thing, wouldn’t He have made self-gratification impossible?

That reasoning does not apply. Murder is a sin also, but it is possible because we were given free will.
Chastity is precious to God when it is freely offered to Him with the help of grace.

We are not robots prevented from sinning. We are given a free-will choice.

People cannot live without food and water, but they can live without sexual relations or self-gratification.

 

[TedDC]

That reasoning does not apply. Murder is a sin also, but it is possible because we were given free will.
Chastity is precious to God when it is freely offered to Him with the help of grace.

We are not robots prevented from sinning. We are given a free-will choice.

People cannot live without food and water, but they can live without sexual relations or self-gratification.

But why should they?

 

[Dorothy]

But why should they?

The Catholic answer is because they want to have the virtue of chastity and keep it. Because a Catholic who is practicing the moral law according to the directives of the Church (the Voice of Christ to us) wants to obey the Lord who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. They don’t want to disappoint Him because they love Him.

Even for non-Catholics virtue brings peace and happiness. Many do not choose this unfortunately.

 

[Ginkgo100]

Again, all of this is in the opinion of the Catholic Church.

Well, of course it is, since that’s what the OP was asking about. What’s your point? :ehh:

 

[Ginkgo100]

One example: it’s my understanding that some couples use masturbation as part of foreplay. In this case, it enhances intimacy, rather than detracts from it.

This is not the situation the OP was talking about. They mentioned that masturbation is neither unitive nor procreative, and clearly meant a single person engaging in the act while alone. This is always grave matter. Mutual masturbation in a marriage, as part of foreplay with the ultimate end and intention of a unitive and potentially procreative act, is a different situation altogether.

 

[aperture]

Wow, this thread really mushroomed.

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony?

Have you ever met a person who disagrees with the Church’s teaching on sex?

Now, tell me, who is preoccupied - it is the public who constaintly rail agains the Church and her sexual laws.

The reason I don’t believe that I’ve met many people who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony is that the teaching doesn’t seem to be very well publicized. For example, I started this thread with the intent of getting at the difference between various bodily functions (in a spiritual sense). I did not start it suspecting that gluttony was in fact a grave sin. I expect that quite a few Catholics believe this - I mean, I’ve been to churches that hold all-you-can-eat spaghetti dinners.

 

[presidentjlh]

Wow, this thread really mushroomed.

The reason I don’t believe that I’ve met many people who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony is that the teaching doesn’t seem to be very well publicized. For example, I started this thread with the intent of getting at the difference between various bodily functions (in a spiritual sense). I did not start it suspecting that gluttony was in fact a grave sin. I expect that quite a few Catholics believe this - I mean, I’ve been to churches that hold all-you-can-eat spaghetti dinners.

You see, that is because over-eating every now and then is not a mortal sin.

A lifestyle of constant over-eating is mortal sin.

 

[kage_ar]

Ted -

What is your reason for posting here? Are you interested in learning about Catholicism or do you just want to insult and tear down Catholicism?

Should your motives be destructive, maybe find a new hobby, one that is Christ-like.

 

[CD_Michels]

You see, that is because over-eating every now and then is not a mortal sin.

A lifestyle of constant over-eating is mortal sin.

How is this so? Please enlighten me, since I have not seen Church documents that say to occasionally do a sinful behavior removes the mortal nature.

CCC 1857 states: For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: ‘Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.’

Infact the opposite can be true, that the mortal nature can be diminished for those who habitually overeat.
CCC 1860:The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders."

As I said before, if one finds themselves unintentionally full or drunk and then stops eating or drinking is not in mortal sin. It is when someone who is already full or drunk that decides to continue eating/drinking that it falls into greater sin.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Those who believe that just because gluttony isn’t talked about as much as masturbation is – and is “therefore” not a mortal sin – have very poorly informed consciences and/or were given very poor catechesis.

Both are grievously sinful. Both.

 

[presidentjlh]

How is this so? Please enlighten me, since I have not seen Church documents that say to occasionally do a sinful behavior removes the mortal nature.

CCC 1857 states: For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: ‘Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.’

Infact the opposite can be true, that the mortal nature can be diminished for those who habitually overeat.
CCC 1860:The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders."

As I said before, if one finds themselves unintentionally full or drunk and then stops eating or drinking is not in mortal sin. It is when someone who is already full or drunk that decides to continue eating/drinking that it falls into greater sin.

You make a fair point. Still, I think what I mean to say is that, if one eats past fullness just a little bit, then says, “No. That is not right, I need to stop.” and does, they aren’t guilty of mortal sin. I think it’s more the awareness thing: Not many people are aware that they are eating past fullness at times. This happens to me, and then it all catches up to me, and I’m like “Oh, shoot. I shouldn’t have done that.” But I am not at fault for mortal sin because I wasn’t fully aware that I was going past my limit.

You make a good point that those who are in the lifestyle of such might have reduced culpability.

 

[presidentjlh]

Those who believe that just because gluttony isn’t talked about as much as masturbation is – and is “therefore” not a mortal sin – have very poorly informed consciences and/or were given very poor catechesis.

Both are grievously sinful. Both.

Oh, it is without a doubt it is a mortal sin, however, gluttony is a difficult one, because one must eat to live. It has much more subjectivity to it than sins of lust.

 

[Middleman]

Masturbation is bad because it’s a misuse of the sexual faculties, since God intended them as unitive and procreative, and masturbation is neither.

Why can’t the same thing be said for gluttony? One could say that God intended the digestive system as nutritive. If a person is eating simply for pleasure, even when they are full, isn’t that separating function and intention, and so sinful by the same logic that masturbation is?

In my opinion, the sin of gluttony has been sorely overlooked by Christianity. I think the comparison of masturbation and gluttony is an apt one. Gluttony is even worse, perhaps, because it wastes food that needy people could have on a planet with limited resources.

 

[kage_ar]

Wow, this thread really mushroomed.

The reason I don’t believe that I’ve met many people who disagrees with the Church teaching on gluttony is that the teaching doesn’t seem to be very well publicized. For example, I started this thread with the intent of getting at the difference between various bodily functions (in a spiritual sense). I did not start it suspecting that gluttony was in fact a grave sin. I expect that quite a few Catholics believe this - I mean, I’ve been to churches that hold all-you-can-eat spaghetti dinners.

I have not met any Catholics IRL who do not know that gluttony is a sin.

An all-you-can-eat dinner is not gluttony.

I can eat a small portion of spaghetti and be done. My teenaged son may still be hungry after 3 plates. All you can eat means eat til you are satisfied not “eat til you puke then go shove down some more”.

Those TV shows where people have hot dog eating contests? THAT is gluttony.