if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

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So Meedo- to clarify-
The Trinity- the belief that in the one Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Our creed “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and there is only one God.”

All three of these Persons in the one Godhead are the also the God of Abraham, Moses, Mohammad, Elijah and Jesus.

So your understanding of Christianity stating only Jesus is God is way off, obviously.

In overly simplistic terms-

What Muslims and Jews have is a God of justice and law. He is the creator, he is the law and he is justice.
We have that God as well, but our God has a counterpart- the God of mercy, compassion, charity and forgiveness which is Jesus and the wisdom and the unity of both in God the Holy Spirit.

This is what allows us to say that both Islam and Judaism worship the same God as we, in that you worship the God of justice, power, might and law.

But we say Islam and Judaism are unfulfilled religions as they reject the other two Persons in the God head which would give the fullness and truth of God. You put limits on God so to speak.

On judgement day we see God in his fullness, our eyes unfettered unblinded by sin, that sin being a complete lack of mercy, charity, forgiveness and compassion which comes through the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Because of Jesus, we can see God in all His glory. Without Jesus, we can only see part of Him.
 
meedo said:
To prove what you wrote above is based on Christianity itself. So if some jews believed in the messiah that is Jesus and the majority disbelieved … why should i take the few jews to be the real interpretaters of the Majority of the jews? !!

because it is these few Jews who believed in the Messiah and that he is divine even though they did not know the Messiah will be divine.
If the jewish messiah claimed to be God then he is NOT JEWISH ANY MORE!!!
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tequilamac said:
So Meedo- to clarify-
The Trinity- the belief that in the one Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Our creed “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and there is only one God.”

All three of these Persons in the one Godhead are the also the God of Abraham, Moses, Mohammad, Elijah and Jesus.

So your understanding of Christianity stating only Jesus is God is way off, obviously.

In overly simplistic terms-

What Muslims and Jews have is a God of justice and law. He is the creator, he is the law and he is justice.
We have that God as well, but our God has a counterpart- the God of mercy, compassion, charity and forgiveness which is Jesus and the wisdom and the unity of both in God the Holy Spirit.

This is what allows us to say that both Islam and Judaism worship the same God as we, in that you worship the God of justice, power, might and law.

But we say Islam and Judaism are unfulfilled religions as they reject the other two Persons in the God head which would give the fullness and truth of God. You put limits on God so to speak.

On judgement day we see God in his fullness, our eyes unfettered unblinded by sin, that sin being a complete lack of mercy, charity, forgiveness and compassion which comes through the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Thank you for your reply .

From what you have stated i understand that There are 3 distinct persons and the trhee are devine.

so on Judgement day you see what ? what do u mean by his fullness?

Either there is a greater God that will only be the one who is showing or

There will be three devine persons standing beside each other on judgement day or

They will take the form of a different God other than the three that were before

which of these choices does christianity believes in?

thank you for your help
 
Meedon, the word “persons” is problematic cuz it is using human words to describe what is not human…“person” in Arabic is Uknum.

**أقنوم ** so it is **ثلاثة اقانيم **and not ثلاثة اشخاص
 
inJESUS said:
Meedon, the word “persons” is problematic cuz it is using human words to describe what is not human…“person” in Arabic is Uknum.

**أقنوم **
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Ok But since you are an arab and me alkso is an arab you would know that probably the word OQNOUM is not arabic word in the first place!

So it definetly has an understandable meaning . Stil i hope i would get answers to my questions.

Thanks
 
meedo said:
Thank you for your reply .

From what you have stated i understand that There are 3 distinct persons and the trhee are devine.

so on Judgement day you see what ? what do u mean by his fullness?

Either there is a greater God that will only be the one who is showing or

There will be three devine persons standing beside each other on judgement day or

They will take the form of a different God other than the three that were before

which of these choices does christianity believes in?

thank you for your help
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Again-

On judgement day we see God in his fullness, our eyes unfettered unblinded by sin, that sin being a complete lack of mercy, charity, forgiveness and compassion which comes through the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

His fullness is All of God- not just his law and justice which you have but also his mercy compassion and forgiveness. His personality, if you will, is complete in Christianity. It is incomplete in Islam and Judaism as He is lacking the personality components of love or charity- compassion, empathy, mercy and forgiveness, you see. We say in Christianity, at least those who believe in the trinity, that His personality is full.

This is why you see, Osama bin Laden can do what he does- he is unconcerned with the ethics of fbeheading people, or dive bombing the World Trade Center. As is to a certain extent George Bush- although a Christian, his Trinity is bit off the mark.
They both lack the necessary component of EMPATHY. We get our capacity for empathy through God the Son-Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ- no empathy, therefore no true charity, mercy, or forgiveness. This is why people have a hard time understanding the violence in Islam and Judaism. Because we are looking at the unempathetic with our own empathetic eyes. It’s a problem.

What in jesus told you is untrue. Jesus was fully human and fully divine, not divine only. Yes, God is human as well in the Person of Jesus. He truly did suffer he truly did die. He was truly human. This is why our God is empathetic.
 
didn’t Allah say the Quran is in clear Arabic? yes hundred of words are not originally Arabic…so what is your point exactly? am telling you that we are not talking about three “people”…neither Jesus not the Father nor the Spirit are people…so we will not see 3 different entitities.
 
There are words that are not originally arabic but are arabic at the time it was revealed because they have an arabic meaning that can be understandable!!

The word ‘‘Israel’’ is not an arabic word originally but it translated from Hebrew to a meaningful word in arabic ‘’ Abd Allah’’

The word OQnoum to be arabic it has to have a meaning explainable in arabic or at least a meaning explainable at all!!! You cant fathom it with English and yoyu cant fathom it with arabic so where did it originate from?! and what does it mean ?
 
ok so what entity will you see? Would entity be the word to trasnlate Oqnoum ?
 
meedo said:
There are words that are not originally arabic but are arabic at the time it was revealed because they have an arabic meaning that can be understandable!!

The word ‘‘Israel’’ is not an arabic word originally but it translated from Hebrew to a meaningful word in arabic ‘’ Abd Allah’’

The word OQnoum to be arabic it has to have a meaning explainable in arabic or at least a meaning explainable at all!!! You cant fathom it with English and yoyu cant fathom it with arabic so where did it originate from?! and what does it mean ?
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You are getting sidetracked from the Trinity. What is your response to my last post answering your questions?
 
My response is that i wouldnt know what comes out of the entities that existed before Judgement day .

I mean there were 3 entities and each of them was God . So when Judgement day comes would the 3 entities become one entity and one God ?

can you make a distinction of those three entities in the new entity?

I dont mean to sound or seem playing but i am sorry its a bit complicated .

But i thank you all for your patience and effort. I guess i understand better now the concept of trinity.

thanks
 
meedo said:
There are words that are not originally arabic but are arabic at the time it was revealed because they have an arabic meaning that can be understandable!!

The word ‘‘Israel’’ is not an arabic word originally but it translated from Hebrew to a meaningful word in arabic ‘’ Abd Allah’’

The word OQnoum to be arabic it has to have a meaning explainable in arabic or at least a meaning explainable at all!!! You cant fathom it with English and yoyu cant fathom it with arabic so where did it originate from?! and what does it mean ?
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am not getting you sorry…are you saying that if a word is not originally in Arabic, it becomes uncomprehensible??:confused: the whole issue is that the word “person” is not the best THEOLOGICAL word.
 
meedo said:
what i am tryingt to say is that the Ten commandements are considered also commanedements in Islam as well. So are the Noahide Laws .
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So have you kept the commandments?
Thus Muslims worship the same God . When we imagine God we imagine him as the God of Moses and Abraham and Jesus and Mohammed and all creations. Same asJews Imagine him.
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If Jews and Muslims worship the same God, then you make God a liar. Jews believe God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Muslims believe that God told Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael.

They cannot be the same God. In the Koran, Mary is Miram, Moses sister. But the Bible and history shows they lived centuries apart.

When Christians Imagine God they imagine Jesus .

Imagining God is idolotry, and violation of God’s commandments. I agree catholics have images of Jesus everywhere, but that is not Biblical.

But Jesus is the Son of God, who took your place on the cross, because you broke law, since you have broken God’s law. He is the Lamb of God, who’s blood was shed on the cross so that death could “passover” you, If you repent of your sins, and trust in Jesus, the Son of God for your salvation, you will be saved.
 
meedo, I don’t think you understood what I wrote. The concepts of Judaism are more fully developed in Christianity. Islam is only tangentially related to either one. It is the red-headed step child, as we used to say.

We don’t believe in 3 entities. We believe in One God who is Three Persons. God’s essence/substance/nature is one. That is where His unity is found. The Father begets, not makes, the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. That is where the distinction is found. In absolutely no way do we teach that there are three Gods.

You are one person with one nature. God is not bound by that model. He is what He is. He is Three Persons in one Divine Nature. Why you ask? Because God is Love. Love begets the Beloved and the bond of Love that goes between them is also Love. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I usually start with Jesus, a good place to begin. If you believe that Jesus is divine, we do and He is, and you begin to consider His words in the gospels then the Trinity becomes more clear. Christians always knew and believed there is only One God. The only question for them was Jesus’ relationship to His Father. When they confessed Jesus is Lord the rest followed inevitably. Certainly they did not affirm 2 or 3 Gods. That would have been anathema to them. Christians are monotheists after all. So God, in His grace, revealed to us a glimpse of his inner life and nature.

This is a sticking point, as Benedict pointed out, because Islam denies that we can know anything about God’s nature. This whole idea is impossible in Islamic theology because it denies the role of reason. I would urge you to read again what the Pope said because it has a direct bearing on these questions.
 
Jesus was the perfect Jew. A Rabi (teacher) Who was the Word of God made flesh. I think what is so confusing is the only Jewish people that are left have to be the Pharisees or they would believe in Jesus, the Son of God.
 
meedo said:
My response is that i wouldnt know what comes out of the entities that existed before Judgement day .

I mean there were 3 entities and each of them was God . So when Judgement day comes would the 3 entities become one entity and one God ?

can you make a distinction of those three entities in the new entity?

I dont mean to sound or seem playing but i am sorry its a bit complicated .

But i thank you all for your patience and effort. I guess i understand better now the concept of trinity.

thanks
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The three entities are now at this moment one God. So, no, it does not happen at Judgement Day. God does not change- ever. He always was one Godhead with three distinct persons. From time immemorial. What happens on Judgement Day is He reveals himself to our sight fully or not whatever the situation of our soul is. This is called the beatific vision- seeing God in all His glory, not just the first part or in other words the Father of Abraham, Moses and so on, but also the revelation of his empathetic character as well.

Your questions make it sound as if somehow on judgement day God changes. That is quite incorrect. He cannot change- he is always the same. Judgement day is for us. We are judged- not God. Maybe that is where you are getting confused.

Also I do not understand your statement of what “comes out of the entities.” You do understand that God is spirit and Jesus was the revelation of the fully divine in a fully human being without sin.
What is it you would expect to “come out”?

Let’s go back to the revelation of Christ in God. The Gospel tells us he was with god in the beginning so we know he did not come along later in God. He was revealed later to us, but he always was there, hidden from our sight.
When you contemplate your God- who do you see? Does your God sympathise with you? Or is he aloof and away from the mere mortals He created? God the Father was sympathetic to the Jews. He led them out of slavery in Egypt. He heard their cries for help in the desert. But he was not empathetic. He himself had never experienced pain, suffering, fear, death. Jesus as a fully human being experienced all of these things. As a result, God the Father has left all judgement of mortals in the hands of the Son. God the Father, prior to the sending or coming of Christ, simply could not empathise, or understand, that which He Himself had created. He is not capable of the type of human weaknesses that we have. Therefore an impasse was reached between God and man. There was the man God created and wanted him to be and then there was the actual weak and sinful people we really are. How could God truly empathise with such an imperfect being since he himself is all perfect? Yes, Jesus did sacrifice himself for our sins, but more importantly, he fulfilled the first covenant between God and us. It is through Jesus and His sacrifice that God can ultimately accept us humas in our faulty, sinful state.
This is the ultimate difference. The incompletely revealed God of Islam and Judaism is simply able to sympathise with man but not empathise. For the Christian, we have a God that is truly empathetic with us human beings. It makes a gigantic difference. A sympathetic but not empathetic person can indulge in executions, beheadings and assassinations such as the outcry from Muslim clerics we hear right now concerning the Pope’s speech. While they might be able to sympathise with the poor confused Christians, they can also easily put them to death. Which if you notice- the Pope simply cannot do and it does not occur to him to mention. Because he has an empathetic AND sympathetic God. He might feel anger at Muslims or Jews, but the Second Person of the Trinity who we call Christ, disallows the spirit of killing and execution. Yes, there can be punishment- but you will never, never hear of a priest, bishop, cardinal, or Pope demanding the death or suffering of another human being.
Jews such as the one today can call for the killing of all Palestinian males. A Catholic could never do such a thing. For our God has a fully developed personality, so to speak, he loves, cares, forgives, and does all these types of things one expects actually from the average human being. If we can expect it from an average human, why not God?
 
If they don’t have the Son of God the bible say’s they can’t have the Father God Jehovah created God , the great I AM.

So the question for Jews and Islam is what god do they have ???😦
 
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