if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

[Montalban]

There is only one God and we all believe in Him.

Not true at all. I believe in God. Moslems call a created being god and believe in it.

 

[Valke2]

The Qur’an identifies Allah as none other than the God to whom Abraham offered “submission” (‘islam) in the episode Jews and Christians know so well from Genesis 22, the story of the binding of Isaac.

When Muhammad first preached to the Jews of Arabia, the Jews definitely thought he had got their God wrong, but they just as definitely did not think he had got the wrong God.

…back in the seventh century, the first Muslims were using the same kind of word in Arabic that the Jews were using theologically in Hebrew and using it in the same way.

Muslims battled those who worshipped false gods, beginning with the Arab polytheists of Mecca and Medina, but they officially tolerated Jews and Christians because they understood the latter to be worshipping the one true God, the God or, in Arabic, Allah
beliefnet.com/story/136/story_13658_2.html

Jews, Christians, and Muslims “have always assumed their differences to be about the character rather than the identity of God,” Miles points to life in medieval Spain, where people of the three faiths mingled and disagreed with each other about the “same divine subject.” Thomas Aquinas, for instance, wrote Summa Contra Gentiles in part to refute the Muslim philosopher Ibn Rushd, but he never tried to make the argument that Muslims were praying to a different God.
slate.com/id/2092762/

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Not true at all. I believe in God. Moslems call a created being god and believe in it.

On what basis do you say this? Muslims (the spelling I am familiar with) believe God to be the creator of the world, not a creature of it.

 

[rikkk1958]

The father Abraham worshipped the same God that we Christians believe now. It is just a matter of how God is presented by who, which at present, hundreds of religions define God in diffrent ways. We have to be proud being Catholics because behind our wisdom, the Church, the One true Church of Jesus Christ, produced Disciples, Apostles, Saints, and Unsurpassed Scholars before our time who studied and supported the undivided doctrines to be the dogmas from the first Vicar of Christ to the last. Any other religion beside the Jews are man made and spread through forced, like Islam. Catholics did it once or many times in the past but to realized later that God is about Love and only through Love we can have true Religion. The God of Islam is total submission which means Love has nothing to do with it. If we were created by God without “free will” then God can tell us what to do like robots. Love is given voluntarily and faith is conquered through Love only.

 

[Chrissyangel]

Be thankful Christians, that Israel’s hardening is to your advantage.
Christians should not be comparing the Jewish people to Muslims.

Read Romans 11, it clearly states the state of Israel.

**

Romans 11

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved**, as it is written:

  “ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
  And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
   27 For this is My covenant with them,
  When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”*
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]

36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Christians have their roots through Israel. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Although the Jews totally deny Christ today, Muslims present a different Christ, a false revelation, a false god, and a great commision of violence. Our God is I AM, Yahweh, Jehoviah Jirah, Jesus, but not allah. allah is a false god, a different god, a strange god, and has no relation to the real one true God.

Jesus told the Apostles, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:8)

Compare that to Islam’s version of the Great Commission: Said Mohammed to his apostles; “I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.”

Jesus send His followers out to live according to His example, which He said would draw men to what they could clearly see to be the truth.

Mohammed told his followers to fight all men until they convert to Islam’s version of the truth. Osama bin Laden quoted Islam’s great commission during the post 9/11 Afghan campaign: “I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.”

**

Romans 12

9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. 10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; 13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.** 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.

 

[Chrissyangel]

I was told by a catholic priest that Muslim god is the same God we catholics worship.Also doesn’t the pope say the same?This is because of Abraham as the arabs come from Ishmail his son,who God blessed and said they would be a great nation.Maybe some parts of the Koran are not from God,as I am sure God would not say murder anyone,it is so confussing ,I expect one has to decide ones self if it is the same god or not.I have not read the Koran so I do not know much of what is written in it,I think there are some things in Old testement that one could think are not what God would say or wont either.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Some people are missing the point of the question. The question begins with an assumption that Muslims do NOT worship the same God as Christians. It is expressed in comments like the following:

Christians have their roots through Israel. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Although the Jews totally deny Christ today, Muslims present a different Christ, a false revelation, a false god, and a great commision of violence. Our God is I AM, Yahweh, Jehoviah Jirah, Jesus, but not allah. allah is a false god, a different god, a strange god, and has no relation to the real one true God.

Jesus told the Apostles, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:8)

Compare that to Islam’s version of the Great Commission: Said Mohammed to his apostles; “I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.”

Jesus send His followers out to live according to His example, which He said would draw men to what they could clearly see to be the truth.

Mohammed told his followers to fight all men until they convert to Islam’s version of the truth. Osama bin Laden quoted Islam’s great commission during the post 9/11 Afghan campaign: “I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.”

Summarizing such a view, the idea is that because Muslims reject Christ that they are rejecting God. Well, Jews also reject Christ. Thus prompting the opening question of this thread…

If Muslims (who reject Christ) don’t believe in the same God as Christians (primarily because of their rejection of Christ), then don’t we have to say that Jews likewise don’t believe in the same God as Christians (because they likewise reject Christ).

Now, for those who are still interested in this thread. The reason I pose such a question is to point out the lie assumed by those who seriously make such statements. Christians do affirm that Jews worship the same God that Christians do, even though Jews reject Christ. We believe this, because we recognize a continuity between today’s Jews and the Jews of the Old Testament whom we recognize as worshipping the same God that Jesus himself worshipped. Thus, I think the whole arguement that because one rejects Christ it means that they are worshipping a different God falls flat. It means what they know of God is imcomplete and may be so different in their own unique experience of worship as to appear to be two different things. (Of course, I find that true about some who claim to be Christians.) But if Jews are to be understood as worshipping the same God as Christians, even as they reject Jesus as the Christ of God, then Muslims who worship the same God that Abraham worshipped are also worshipping the same God that Jesus worshippied and hence the same God that Christians worship.

The point of calling God Allah is a red herring, for Allah is just the Arab name for God in the same way that Dios is the Spanish name for God. Christians in Arab speaking cultures have used have called God Allah for geenerations and meant by it the very God recorded in the Bible.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The Qur’an identifies Allah as none other than the God to whom Abraham offered “submission” (‘islam) in the episode Jews and Christians know so well from Genesis 22, the story of the binding of Isaac.

For you to accept that reasoning you must accept the Qur’an for more than the claim alone. The claim in itself means nothing. I could claim I am standing under an apple tree when in fact I am standing under a cherry tree. Just because I am standing under a tree does not make my words any more true if the fruit of the tree was the subject.

When Muhammad first preached to the Jews of Arabia, the Jews definitely thought he had got their God wrong, but they just as definitely did not think he had got the wrong God.

I’m not sure how you have come to that conclusion. The Jews mocked Mohammed for getting the stories wrong and thought he was talking nonsense and without authority so he was laughed at and dismissed- before being hunted down later by Mohammed.

…back in the seventh century, the first Muslims were using the same kind of word in Arabic that the Jews were using theologically in Hebrew and using it in the same way.

The Jews had theology and history behind the word they used. Mohammed did not.

Muslims battled those who worshipped false gods, beginning with the Arab polytheists of Mecca and Medina, but they officially tolerated Jews and Christians because they understood the latter to be worshipping the one true God, the God or, in Arabic, Allah
beliefnet.com/story/136/story_13658_2.html

Actually I think his first attacks were for food and money in the manner of Jesse James in the old west. Musims are trying to convince an apple tree is a cherry tree, and that toleration is paid at a very high price by both Jews and Christians. Now the argument has shifted away from the fruit of the tree, but to the tree itself which was not the object of disagreement between them.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims “have always assumed their differences to be about the character rather than the identity of God,” Miles points to life in medieval Spain, where people of the three faiths mingled and disagreed with each other about the “same divine subject.” Thomas Aquinas, for instance, wrote Summa Contra Gentiles in part to refute the Muslim philosopher Ibn Rushd, but he never tried to make the argument that Muslims were praying to a different God.
slate.com/id/2092762/

I disagree. For years I assumed that because that was the conventional wisdom we were told that it is the same god until I finally read it for myself. I came to two conclusions and one fact:
Conclusion #1: The words (fruit) of each are contradictory and do not belong to the same God (tree).
Conclusion #2: The method of revelation and personal character of Mohammed are not trustworthy.
Fact: Just because there is only one God the claim of a monotheistic faith by Muslims does not automatically make it the same God by default.

 

[claymcdermott]

Whether or not the Quran speaks of the God of Christianity I am unaware, but a Muslim who is a good person, and sees God as a loving and compassionate God( many Muslims that I know do see God this way), believes in the same God as any good Catholic. The same goes for pagans, such as Hindus and Sikhs. Now I’m not preaching indifferentism, I love Catholicism more than anything. Saint Paul told a group of pagans, “My God is the God you worship without knowing it.” God says, “You shall find me, when you shall seek for me with all your heart.” Any man woman or child who seeks for God with all his or her heart shall find Him, in this life or the next, and may be worshipping Him without knowing it.

God Bless

 

[choosechrist]

I have a problem reconciling what is said in the Catechism with what St. John says. St. John in 1 John 4:15 says that “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.”

then in 1 John 2:23 he says “No one who denies the Son has the Father. The person who acknowledges the Son also has the Father.” so how can Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

 

[Grace_Seeker]

I have a problem reconciling what is said in the Catechism with what St. John says. St. John in 1 John 4:15 says that “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.”

then in 1 John 2:23 he says “No one who denies the Son has the Father. The person who acknowledges the Son also has the Father.” so how can Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

By that same reasoning, how can Jews?

 

[Deconi]

Originally Posted by choosechrist
I have a problem reconciling what is said in the Catechism with what St. John says. St. John in 1 John 4:15 says that “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.”

then in 1 John 2:23 he says “No one who denies the Son has the Father. The person who acknowledges the Son also has the Father.” so how can Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

By that same reasoning, how can Jews?

In rejecting Christ, they are ‘both’ deprived of The Revelation of that Truth about Allah and YHWH being One and The Same.

It is ‘perfectly’ correct, to say, they worship the same God.

 

[Silouan]

I have a problem reconciling what is said in the Catechism with what St. John says. St. John in 1 John 4:15 says that “Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.”

then in 1 John 2:23 he says “No one who denies the Son has the Father. The person who acknowledges the Son also has the Father.” so how can Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

Acts 17

22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

  TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: "

According to Paul, you can worship the true God without knowing the reality of that which you worship. You can worship the true God in ignorance. And Muslims intend to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, and David, and yet do not know the reality of who they are worshipping.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Grace_Seeker]

In rejecting Christ, they are ‘both’ deprived of The Revelation of that Truth about Allah and YHWH being One and The Same.

It is ‘perfectly’ correct, to say, they worship the same God.

Thank-you for your opinion, Deconi. However, it was specifically ChooseChrist that I was putting the question to, for it was his line of reasoning itself that I was seeking to understand, and wanted to see if he would apply it across the board to all people who do not acknowledge the Son (ChooseChrist’s apparent standard) or only to Muslims.

 

[Frank_Cox]

I was listening to a right wing radio station and the host , anti-Muslim, said Muslims do not beleive in the same God as Chrsitians and jews.

Well, yes, Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God - but neither do Jews.

Tell me, is it not true that neither Muslims or Jews believe in the same God as Christians?

Your argument makes no sense. Lots of cults have worshipped one god , the Egyptians worshiped Zeus at one time as the one god, the Egyptians Ra. Why not read the Quran and study the Hadeeths and you will not need to ask. The God of Abraham loves the Jews so much He became one, Allah only loves dead Jews.
Who hates what God loves? Satan. Allah is Satan.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God -

No Prophet ever taught about Trinity. It’s a men made explanation. Jesus (p) never uttered Trinity. Muslims reject Trinity because God & His creations are not equal.

Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another. (Quran; Aal `Imran 3:84)

Say: “O People of the Book!
come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God.”

If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s Will).
(Aal `Imran 3:64)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

Allah is Satan.

Don’t u know Arab Christians also call God as Allah ?

In Quran , Jews & Christians are referred as people of the holy books. God reminded Jews how He blessed them in the past ; also God warned them how He punish them if they disobey Him. U will find the same in Jew’s holy book . So , why condemn Quran ? Read the following verses , hard to understand which verse is from which holy book.

Similarities between Muslims & Jewish Holy Books

1. And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all foreigners, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers
2. Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said: 'This is thy God
3. . But after they had rest, they did evil again before Thee;
4. Children of Israel! call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others.
5. But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their neck, and hearkened not to Thy commandments,
6. Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples
7. they were disobedient, and rebelled against Thee, and cast Thy law behind their back, and slew Thy prophets that did forewarn them to turn them back unto Thee,
8. Yea, forty years didst Thou sustain them in the wilderness, and they lacked nothing; their clothes waxed not old, and their feet swelled not.
9. We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations

convertstoislam.org

mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt35b09.htm

 

[Frank_Cox]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

No Prophet ever taught about Trinity. It’s a men made explanation. Jesus (p) never uttered Trinity. Muslims reject Trinity because God & His creations are not equal.

The Bible does not use the word but it is clear that their are 3 persons in one God. Jesus appeared many times in the Old Testament From Genesis on as well as the Holy Spirit.
I would suggest Jesus in Genesis by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati.

One of many examples.
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

The Lord on earth was the pre-incarnate Christ.

Another:

Deu 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spoke with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

Again the Lord is the pre-incarnate Christ.

These are the words of Jesus Christ:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another. (Quran; Aal `Imran 3:84)

Now you are trying to blow smoke up my skirt. That may work on the uneducated but you know as well as I that those versus were abrogated and Islam teachs the Jews and Christians changed the scriptures and only the Imams know what they mean.

Surah 2:106:
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Say: “O People of the Book!
come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God.”

If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s Will).
(Aal `Imran 3:64)

That was abrogated , the Quran teaches Muslims to kill the Jews and Christians and the Hadeeths that Jesus never died and will return as a Muslim to slit the throats of the Jews and Christians

Surah 2:62 (some claim this is abrogated by Surah 3:85 below)

Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians, - Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Surah 3:85

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

You can only fool the ignorant.The God of Abraham loves the Jews so much he became one to die for the sins of man . A thrice holy God cannot be in the presence of of sin and our Father loves us and wants to live with us forever. Allah loves Jews dead.

[3.23] Have you not considered those (Jews) who are given a portion of the Book? They are invited to the Book of Allah that it might decide between them, then a part of them turn back and they withdraw.

[4.46] Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

[6.146] And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Nice try, no cigar.

.

.

 

[Reuben_J]

Frank Cox, my lips haven’t dried yet when I said you’ll be banished from the forum if you continue with your unwarranted accusation in your posts. And now you are banned. How prophetic.

You seem to have some knowledge of the Quran and the Bible. If you want to stay long here you have to tone down your rhetoric and display of wanton hatred and bigotry and I am sure many posters here will engage you in fruitful dialogue. Do not think that in a dialogue that one must win or always right. We can learn even if we don’t agree for only the foolhardy refuse to learn.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

No Prophet ever taught about Trinity. It’s a men made explanation. Jesus (p) never uttered Trinity.

It would be more correct to say that no Prophet ever uttered the word “Trinity”, because what they taught is an interpretation of the words they actually spoke. You see, as regards the statement you made, since every English version of the Qu’ran is called a translation and since no Prophet ever spoke in English, it would be just as true to say that no Prophet ever taught Unity, because the term is an English word and no prophet ever spoke in English. Now of course, you would be correct to counter that they did teach unity because that is what they meant by the things they did say. But that is an interpretation, a correct interpretation I would agree, of what they said, but an interpretation just the same. And, in the same way, we can see that Jesus did indeed speak not just of Unity but also of Trinity: “I and the Father are one.” “The Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

(BTW, it is an error, I believe, to think that Trinity and Unity are in oppostion to each other. They only are to Muslims, because they do not fully understand what is meant by Trinity.)

So, Jesus may never have uttered the word Trinity, but interepreting what he said, he did in fact teach Trinity every bit as much as he taught Unity.

Muslims reject Trinity because God & His creations are not equal.

Christians reject that God and God’s creations are equal as well. If you think that Trinity teaches this, then this is another example of why I say that you still don’t understand the Christian concept of Trinity.