If no TLM, is it sinning to not attend NO mass?

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RyanML said:
I only meant that such celebrations do not reflect the Catholic faith. Lex orandi, lex credendi. The fact that our Lord is present at these Masses makes it all the worse. If I had no other choice then to attend a Mass with horrible music and people dressed like they were going to the beach, then I would offer it up and deal with it. Ignoring abuses is not as easy as turning off a light switch. I can be there at Mass, acting the best way I know how and then right in front of me something happens that makes me angry and disturbs my peace. I’ve been to plenty of Masses where this goes on for the entire hour. A Catholic should not have to deal with that. I shouldn’t have to offer it up, they should have to change to reflect the mind and faith of the Church.
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Ryan, this is your Catholic sense telling you something is not right. If there is a TLM in your area I would attend that exclusively for the sake of your soul.
 
OhMalley said:
Just how does it reflect on the Catholic faith to take shots at the Ordinary Form of the Mass by using the bigoted slur “NO Mass?”
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I wasn’t taking shots at the Ordinary Form. I was taking a shot at the distortion of the Mass that so many parishes try to pass off as the Ordinary Form.
How about collectively denigrating the Ordinary Form of the Mass at the OP did? Placing his personal opinion ahead of the Church?
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The Church teaches in her Canon Law that a Catholic is dispensed from attending Mass on Sunday if it is morally impossible for them to do so. I have already said that such a situation would be extremely rare and the OP has already admitted that what he did was wrong.
It’s tough having rational discussions on these subjects because when things begin to tighten up in the least the conversation on one end shifts to ridiculous hyperbole.
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Why not ponder for a moment just how negative the impact much (not all but much) of “traditionalism” (as depicted here) is on the Church?
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I’m not sure what hyperbole you are refering to. I would agree that some forms of traditionalism have had a negative impact on the Church but the liberalism in faith and practice are much more widespread. I would think that liberalism would be a worse plague than the occasional kooky traditionalist.
 
stevusmagnus said:
Ryan, this is your Catholic sense telling you something is not right. If there is a TLM in your area I would attend that exclusively for the sake of your soul.
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I do attend the TLM on Sundays. During the week it’s about half and half depending on my work schedule. But daily OF Masses are usually not an issue for me. Thanks for the encouragement 🙂
 
daeve said:
Abuse is defined by the Church, not by you.
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So if the Church forbade communion in the hand tomorrow, it would turn back into an “abuse”? But today it is not?

Is the act itself wholly without any moral value positive or negative?

Can what was sacrilege yesterday be holy tomorrow?
 
OhMalley said:
“NO Mass” is an intrinsically negative statement. That’s clear to anyone who knows what it means and who is honest with themselves.

Continue use of it by people who should know better (Catholics) is the use of a bigoted slur.
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Baloney. Very few of the people that I know use it in a negative fashion, nor with any bad intent. You seem to believe that you are the arbiter of what is in people’s minds and in what sense that they use the term. Get over it and accept the fact that there are many of us who use the term in a benign fashion, and stop making yourself pope.
 
stevusmagnus said:
So if the Church forbade communion in the hand tomorrow, it would turn back into an “abuse”? But today it is not?

Is the act itself wholly without any moral value positive or negative?

Can what was sacrilege yesterday be holy tomorrow?
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My opinion is that communion in the hand is, of itself, niether good nor bad. There are in fact Eastern rites who practice communion in the hand and so it can not be intrinsically sacrilegeous. However, given the total lack of respect and reverence for the sacred that permeates our society today, the Church needs to be promoting her traditional practices of reverence and adoration, not making them mere options along side novelty.
 
stevusmagnus said:
So if the Church forbade communion in the hand tomorrow, it would turn back into an “abuse”? But today it is not?
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Yes, that is the nature of Church disciplines. If tomorrow orange became the color of Ordinary Time, then green would be the abuse.
Good article on communion in the hand…
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FYI - If this thread is hijacked into a communion in hand thread, it will never go back and may well be closed soon. There are several on the topic, one of which is only a couple weeks old and coule be re-opened.
 
pnewton,

I believe CITH to be a moral issue and not merely disciplinary. That is where we disagree.

Nevertheless, I’ll leave it at that. I agree in not having this thread hijacked. I’d like to keep it to the OP’s questions.

Thanks.
 
RyanML said:
There are in fact Eastern rites who practice communion in the hand and so it can not be intrinsically sacrilegeous.
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Ryan, this is incorrect. Please read below.

catholictradition.org/Eucharist/communion13.htm
The worst of these errors of fact was the claim that the Eastern Churches have preserved the practice of Holy Communion in the hand. This is complete nonsense, as the practice in the Eastern Churches, Uniate and Orthodox, is for the laity to receive Communion under both kinds placed on the tongue by a priest using a spoon. At the end of the Orthodox Liturgy blessed bread is sometimes distributed to the congregation. This has not been consecrated and is received in the hand. It may be the reason why some non-Orthodox imagine that Communion is given in the hand. The fact that this pamphlet was written by Fr. Anthony Boylan, General Secretary of the Liturgy Commission of England and Wales, is an only too typical example of the crass ignorance of so many of those styling themselves as liturgical experts.
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Pickguard1, thanks for your thoughtful response. I guess I was expecting more dialog of this nature than some that has ensued.

stevusmagnus, thanks for being an ally and giving me food for thought as well.

Given all these responses, I have much to consider. Hopefully, I’ll be able to ask difficult questions like this in the future and the replies will be thoughtful and considerate. Nonetheless, I thank you all for your insight.

Peace in Christ, Greg
 
Chatter163 said:
Baloney. Very few of the people that I know use it in a negative fashion, nor with any bad intent. You seem to believe that you are the arbiter of what is in people’s minds and in what sense that they use the term. Get over it and accept the fact that there are many of us who use the term in a benign fashion, and stop making yourself pope.
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You’re not telling the truth – at least to us and possibly to yourself as well. There is simply no way that you don’t realize the intrinsic negativeness of the label “NO Mass.” Absolutely none. “NO” means something very specific in our lexicon and it’s not typically positive.

Someone who knows nothing about Christendom would immediately understand the negative nature of the label as well particularly if they learned that a group of people hated the EF.

I can see where people might call the EF the “Novus Ordo Mass” out of ignorance. “NO Mass?” No way – they’re making a statement by denigrating the OF Mass.
 
RyanML said:
I wasn’t taking shots at the Ordinary Form. I was taking a shot at the distortion of the Mass that so many parishes try to pass off as the Ordinary Form.
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That’s the common technique of many here. We begin a conversation and one usually goes off on a tangent at some point about clown Masses, cheesehead hats, etc.
RyanML said:
The Church teaches in her Canon Law that a Catholic is dispensed from attending Mass on Sunday if it is morally impossible for them to do so. I have already said that such a situation would be extremely rare and the OP has already admitted that what he did was wrong.
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That’s a bunch of malarky too. First the OP had no idea what sort of OF Masses he would have access to. He chose not to go before he left home. Second as someone pointed out, one must have a well-formed conscience in order for them to reach a valid conclusion. The OP did not exhibit that quality in the original post.
RyanML said:
I’m not sure what hyperbole you are refering to. I would agree that some forms of traditionalism have had a negative impact on the Church but the liberalism in faith and practice are much more widespread. I would think that liberalism would be a worse plague than the occasional kooky traditionalist.
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What do you mean by “liberalism?” Along with “liturgical abuse” and “modernist” it’s one of the most over-used and misused words on these forums.
 
For the English impaired,

**no 2 **(nhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gif)
adj. **1. **Not any; not one; not a: No cookies are left.
**2. **Not at all; not close to being: He is no child.
**3. **Hardly any: got there in no time flat.

thefreedictionary.com/No
 
ByzCath said:
I would attend the Latin Church’s liturgy, which would be the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form of the Mass as I could receive communion there. But then I also have other obligations due to my vows that the laity do not have.

There is nothing wrong with guitars, they are used extensively in Latin America as they can afford them. Now the music choice might be off but that is another issue.

But you are not obligated to attend a Latin Church Mass, the obligation resides with your Church and if you are on vacation where there is no Byzantine Church of which ever Byzantine Church you belong to then there is no obligation but I would speak with your pastor or spiritual father before going and do as they say.
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There also used extensively in rock concerts. Guitars are not a liturgical instrument. Maybe in the OF Roman Mass they are. But not in the EF Roman Mass, or the Divine Liturgies of the East. Including Oriental Churches. Personally I would first attend a EF Mass, if not then I would seek an Orthodox Church. The OF Roman Mass, is to protestant for me. Just me!
 
falcogreg said:
To a degree, you are correct in that I made an assumption. However, being that this is the same church that allowed a protestant minister say mass without informing the laity certainly puts serious doubt in my mind. What else will they allow? I guess that also, since every time in recent years that I have attended a NO mass, major abuses have occurred. I’m getting jaded to the point that I am wondering if I can attend without seeing some abuse. BTW, to me altar girls, EM’s, communions in the hand are NOT dogma. Why they are universally practiced is beyond my comprehension. To me, these are abuses as well.
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Did you ever think that it was a ‘formerly’ Protestant minister, now RC priest that this parish priest invited to celebrate Mass?

As for the things you list, Canon Law allows them all. Yes, the use of EMHCs is often abusive because they are used when there is no real need, but the other things you list are allowed by Rome.
 
bkovacs said:
There also used extensively in rock concerts. Guitars are not a liturgical instrument. Maybe in the OF Roman Mass they are. But not in the EF Roman Mass, or the Divine Liturgies of the East. Including Oriental Churches. Personally I would first attend a EF Mass, if not then I would seek an Orthodox Church. The OF Roman Mass, is to protestant for me. Just me!
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What is it with people talking about guitars and drums? I’ve never heard those in Church.
 
I haven’t read the whole thread, but this reminds me of something a woman said to me when we were on a weekend retreat at a monestary.

She attended a very conservative, traditional, and beautiful Anglican Church, one with an amazing priest, and a strong outreach program to the inner-city community it was located in. Quite a find all round.

She said “Oh, when we are away, we don’t attend church, because there is no place like St. X.”

Well, I certainly understand he dislike of the average Anglican service. However, my thought was, is the Holy Spirit only found at St. X church?
 
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