If not Catholic, Why are you on this forum?

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Eden:
That is your entire response to what I just posted above?

Regarding the Trinity:

The doctrine surrounding the nature of the Triune God is not explicit in scripture. You are relying on Church Tradition to understand the mystery of the Blessed Trinity. There is much more detail to the doctrine than just the words “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” and with your understanding of the Triune God you are relying on oral Tradition which was later explicitly developed into doctrine through the Church.

The Doctrine of the Trinity is a product of the Church’s long history of prayerful reflection on the revelation of God in Jesus.

There is no clear and well defined description, explanation, or exposition of the Doctrine in the Holy Scriptures.

There are only indications, suggestions, intimations to that effect that God who has revealed God self in history – to the Patriarchs, the Prophets, and the Apostles – is not a solitary person but rather a communion of persons.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
Yes, I do not know of any beliefs that I have that are outside of the Bible of any significance. I do not know what else to say. Your page says that I got my beliefs from the Churches long history but I do not think that is true. It mentions sacrements but all of these things are in the Bible. The stuff you quoted is applicable to Catholics not Protestants. Like I said, I just do not see anything in your post that I have anything to say about really.
 
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Fredricks:
Yes, I do not know of any beliefs that I have that are outside of the Bible of any significance. I do not know what else to say. Your page says that I got my beliefs from the Churches long history but I do not think that is true. It mentions sacrements but all of these things are in the Bible. The stuff you quoted is applicable to Catholics not Protestants. Like I said, I just do not see anything in your post that I have anything to say about really.
That is a very weak response. You have nothing to say to:

1) Some truths of Tradition are directly stated in Scripture, such as God’s creation of the world.

**2) Other truths of Tradition are not stated directly in Scripture but are implied clearly by the biblical author. **For example, while the Bible doesn’t come out and say that the Holy Spirit is a person rather than a force, it is implied in numerous passages, such as those in which the Spirit is depicted as speaking to people (e.g., Acts 13:2), and the biblical authors meant us to understand this.

**3) Some truths of Tradition can be inferred from Scripture even though the biblical authors did not clearly imply them. **For example, Christ having both a human will and a divine will can be inferred from his being “true God and true man” (CCC 464). Various biblical passages state or imply that he is true God and true man, but in none does the biblical author state or imply that he had two wills. We have to figure that out by inference.

**4) A truth is sometimes alluded to or reflected in the text even though it can’t be proved from the text alone. **The Immaculate Conception may be reflected in what Gabriel says to Mary in Luke 1:28, and the Assumption may be reflected in the wings the woman is given in Revelation 12:14, but you couldn’t prove these truths from the text alone.

5) Some truths are presupposed by Scripture, such as many of the particulars of how the sacraments are celebrated—their proper form, matter, ministers, and recipients. The sacraments are mentioned in the Bible, but the biblical authors didn’t give many details about their administration. They assumed that the reader would look to the practice of the Church for the answers to these questions. For example, the sacrament of reconciliation is discussed, but the words that need to be used to make an absolution valid are not.

6) Some truths are not in Scripture at all; not even a piece of the truth in question is indicated. As we saw earlier, the truths that public revelation is ended and that there will be no more apostles fall in this category.
I do not know of any beliefs that I have that are outside of the Bible of any significance. I do not know what else to say.
The belief that public revelation is ended and there will be no more apostles is not significant?

Are you denying that the Doctrine of the Blessed Trinity developed over time and is not explicit in scripture?
 
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MikeinSD:
Thanks guys. I didn’t have a problem with the catholic priests. They were decent to me and my sibs. No one was excluded from a catholic mass and funeral. My mom’s priest also told me that there is no catholic law to exclude immediate family despite requests from other relatives

As for the Christian relatives, I noticed more and more problems.I think that I wasn’t abashed or humilated for being the way I am got on their nerves. My mom accepted me. My sibs accepted me. Once my sibs started having kids in the 80s, my immediate family wanted me around their kids. That started a backlash with conservative religious people, both protestant and catholic. They didn’t want a homosexual around the kids.

The kids grew into teens. They and their parents still liked hanging with me. Once my mom got sick, the devouts insisted I stop being around the kids. I think they thought I perverted them somehow. I refused stop seeing my family. Then we had problems.

I find it interesting the catholics and baptists started calling themselves Christians in the late 90s. I understand both baptists and catholics have huge differences in doctrine. What mattered most was their agreement in conservative politics. One huge area of agreement was that gay men threatened American families. And I theatened my family.

I guess the devouts thought that driving me out of my family was their Christian duty. And contesting my mom’s will would bring cold hard cash. A win, win. Both God and their bank accounts would be served. How convenient. Yes, blood relatives contested my mom’s will. They lost.
I find it interesting that you know that catholics and baptist started calling themselves Christians in the late 90’s. I have been going to church since I was 6 yrs old…I am now 73…and we have ALWAYS called ourselves Christian first and foremost. I was raised a Baptist!!!
 
OK here is my answer… I started being interested in early church history about a year ago. My eyes were open to a lot that I never knew about or realized. Then I started watching Sunday Night Live with Father Benidict Groschel and learned to love his teaching. Since it was on EWTN the next program following his was Father Coropi teaching the catachism…I learned a lot from his show… I am nearly convinced that the Catholic Church is clearly the Church that Christ found. In fact if circmstances were different I would be attending RICA now!!! Ohh and I don;t want to leave out THIS forum I have learned so much and come to love and respect the Catholic believers on this forum.

Love in Christ!!!
 
QUOTE=Eden]That is a very weak response. You have nothing to say to:
I do not have too much to say but I will try.
1) Some truths of Tradition are directly stated in Scripture, such as God’s creation of the world.
I agree
**2) Other truths of Tradition are not stated directly in Scripture but are implied clearly by the biblical author. **For example, while the Bible doesn’t come out and say that the Holy Spirit is a person rather than a force, it is implied in numerous passages, such as those in which the Spirit is depicted as speaking to people (e.g., Acts 13:2), and the biblical authors meant us to understand this.
ok, I agree
**3) Some truths of Tradition can be inferred from Scripture even though the biblical authors did not clearly imply them. **For example, Christ having both a human will and a divine will can be inferred from his being “true God and true man” (CCC 464). Various biblical passages state or imply that he is true God and true man, but in none does the biblical author state or imply that he had two wills. We have to figure that out by inference.
I think the Bible is rather clear on all of this
**4) A truth is sometimes alluded to or reflected in the text even though it can’t be proved from the text alone. **The Immaculate Conception may be reflected in what Gabriel says to Mary in Luke 1:28, and the Assumption may be reflected in the wings the woman is given in Revelation 12:14, but you couldn’t prove these truths from the text alone.
I do not believe either of those and this is not relevant to me
b]5) Some truths are presupposed by Scripture
, such as many of the particulars of how the sacraments are celebrated—their proper form, matter, ministers, and recipients. The sacraments are mentioned in the Bible, but the biblical authors didn’t give many details about their administration. They assumed that the reader would look to the practice of the Church for the answers to these questions. For example, the sacrament of reconciliation is discussed, but the words that need to be used to make an absolution valid are not.
All seven of your sacrements are found in some form in the Bible
6) Some truths are not in Scripture at all; not even a piece of the truth in question is indicated. As we saw earlier, the truths that public revelation is ended and that there will be no more apostles fall in this category.
The Bible does not mention there will be any more apostles and a system of church government is set up.
The belief that public revelation is ended and there will be no more apostles is not significant?
The Bible does not say there will be any more apostles, why would I assume there should be.
Are you denying that the Doctrine of the Blessed Trinity developed over time and is not explicit in scripture?
I believe everything the Bible says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If it took you guys 400 or 500 years to argue about it, so be it. Everything I need is right there.

I do not see anything to debate really. I think scripture is clear on all of this. You think, well it is not. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, the seven things you guys label sacrements later on, all there. Immaculate conception and assumption, which I do not believe, not in there. I really am not sure what you want me to say. I think it is all there.
 
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Fredricks:
I do not believe either of those and this is not relevant to me
Oh, but they are most relevant to you.

If you are not Catholic and do not accept infallibly defined papal dogmas, as Catholics must do, then mere reason and common sense compel you to accept the Immaculate Conception and the Glorious Assumption into Heaven of the Blessed Mother.

To suggest that you are a Christian, believing as you do in the Divine nature of the Lord Jesus, the Son of God, Redeemer, Deliverer of souls…(we would be here all day and all night listing titles) and to suggest that the one who bore Him in her womb was anything short of SPOTLESS would be the height of heresy and the height of blasphemy.

As far as Scripture is concerned, the Bible is full of references to Mary’s immaculate, sinless nature. See the various references to the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament–where the Lord has entered, no one else will (hence, the Blessed Mother’s ever virgin nature), and the Lord does not enter a stained vessel. Therefore, the Blessed Mother, by mere theological common sense, was immaculately conceived and without sin from the first instant of her conception.

As for the Assumption, the same applies. She was one of three, and three alone, of all the disciples, all the apostles, all the followers and those healed by the Lord, who remained with Him at the foot of the cross. Where the Lord has entered, no one else will, and what the Lord has made clean and spotless–His Mother–no person nor anything will defile with sin.

To say that the Mediatrix of all graces and the one whom God chose, from no necessity, and purely by His will, to participate in the salvation of mankind is “irrelevant” to you is to scale the heights of spiritual folly to the very worst degree. Pick up a book and read about the Church’s devotion to Mary Immaculate. These teachings do not materialize out of thin air to confound Protestants. They have their base in the truth.

While you are at it, you may even want to see what a rather famous Protestant, Luther, had to say about the Blessed Mother. I suspect he does not share your ignorant remark about the “irrelevance” of the matter. I encourage you, when posting on a Catholic forum, to monitor comments such as these–referring to the Blessed Mother and those teachings about her as “irrelevant,” if not spoken in malice, betray the sort of ignorance that need be immediately rectified.
 
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Fredricks:
All seven of your sacrements are found in some form in the Bible
I think you kinda’ missed the point on this one. Could you please cite the verse which tells us (1) who can marry two Christians and (2) what words they’re supposed to say? What about baptism - full immersion, or is pouring ok if you’re in a desert with minimal water? Is water required at all? What about the “Lord’s Supper”? How often are you supposed to do it? Once a week, once a month, once a quarter, once a year, or once in a lifetime? Grape juice or wine? Common cup or does everyone bring their own? Thimbles?

None of this is “clearly found in Scripture”.
The Bible does not say there will be any more apostles, why would I assume there should be.
It also doesn’t say there won’t be. It does, however, say the following:
Mark 16:18
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

But not Apostles, right? Say, do you have snake-handlers at your church? BTW, we believe the Bishops are the successors of the Apostles, not strictly Apostles themselves. That said, since Jesus made a new Apostle after His resurrection (St. Paul), why would you think He’d suddenly stop doing that? Verse, please?
I believe everything the Bible says about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If it took you guys 400 or 500 years to argue about it, so be it. Everything I need is right there.
Here’s one that’s not in there - the Canon of Scripture. There’s no “Divine Table of Contents”, so you pretty much have to rely on tradition to get this right. So no, “everything [you] need” isn’t “right there”.
I do not see anything to debate really. I think scripture is clear on all of this.
Which is why all Protestants agree, right?
Immaculate conception and assumption, which I do not believe, not in there.
Sure it is, and it’s more explicit than the two natures of Christ with two wills, hypostatically joined in one Divine Person!

God Bless,
RyanL
 
QUOTE=Mike O]Oh, but they are most relevant to you.
If you are not Catholic and do not accept infallibly defined papal dogmas, as Catholics must do, then mere reason and common sense compel you to accept the Immaculate Conception and the Glorious Assumption into Heaven of the Blessed Mother.
No they do not
To suggest that you are a Christian, believing as you do in the Divine nature of the Lord Jesus, the Son of God, Redeemer, Deliverer of souls…(we would be here all day and all night listing titles) and to suggest that the one who bore Him in her womb was anything short of SPOTLESS would be the height of heresy and the height of blasphemy.
How can something be heretical that is not in the Bible?
As far as Scripture is concerned, the Bible is full of references to Mary’s immaculate, sinless nature. See the various references to the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament–where the Lord has entered, no one else will (hence, the Blessed Mother’s ever virgin nature), and the Lord does not enter a stained vessel. Therefore, the Blessed Mother, by mere theological common sense, was immaculately conceived and without sin from the first instant of her conception.
Catholicism proof texting the OT and applying assorted verses about the Ark, and not others, does not persuade me. Apologies to Mr. Hahn, but it does not
As for the Assumption, the same applies. She was one of three, and three alone, of all the disciples, all the apostles, all the followers and those healed by the Lord, who remained with Him at the foot of the cross. Where the Lord has entered, no one else will, and what the Lord has made clean and spotless–His Mother–no person nor anything will defile with sin.
just curious, what happened to the Ark?
This just starts an infinite regression, Mary had to be without sin, but not her Mom? Why Mary and not her Mom(Anna to you guys)
To say that the Mediatrix of all graces and the one whom God chose, from no necessity, and purely by His will, to participate in the salvation of mankind is “irrelevant” to you is to scale the heights of spiritual folly to the very worst degree. Pick up a book and read about the Church’s devotion to Mary Immaculate. These teachings do not materialize out of thin air to confound Protestants. They have their base in the truth.
I do not usually discuss Mary with you guys. I offend you when I give my views. Rest assured, I believe everything the Bible says about her and I mean no disrespect but only the utmost respect.
While you are at it, you may even want to see what a rather famous Protestant, Luther, had to say about the Blessed Mother.
Luther, the anti-semite, take books out of the Bible guy?
I will pass.
I suspect he does not share your ignorant remark about the “irrelevance” of the matter. I encourage you, when posting on a Catholic forum, to monitor comments such as these–referring to the Blessed Mother and those teachings about her as “irrelevant,” if not spoken in malice, betray the sort of ignorance that need be immediately rectified.
I consider them irrelevent. You know most of us do. We do not find them in the Bible so what is a Protestant to do?
Is that the second time you called me ignorant? Hard to keep up.
I am not arguing against those two doctrines, well I have a little, but I do not find them in the Bible. You hold them obviously. I do not. I am being respectful, relax.
 
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RyanL:
I think you kinda’ missed the point on this one. Could you please cite the verse which tells us (1) who can marry two Christians and (2) what words they’re supposed to say? What about baptism - full immersion, or is pouring ok if you’re in a desert with minimal water? Is water required at all? What about the “Lord’s Supper”? How often are you supposed to do it? Once a week, once a month, once a quarter, once a year, or once in a lifetime? Grape juice or wine? Common cup or does everyone bring their own? Thimbles?

None of this is “clearly found in Scripture”.

It also doesn’t say there won’t
be. It does, however, say the following:
Mark 16:18
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

But not Apostles, right? Say, do you have snake-handlers at your church? BTW, we believe the Bishops are the successors of the Apostles, not strictly Apostles themselves. That said, since Jesus made a new Apostle after His resurrection (St. Paul), why would you think He’d suddenly stop doing that? Verse, please?

Here’s one that’s not in there - the Canon of Scripture. There’s no “Divine Table of Contents”, so you pretty much have to rely on tradition to get this right. So no, “everything [you] need” isn’t “right there”.

Which is why all Protestants agree, right?

Sure it is, and it’s more explicit than the two natures of Christ with two wills, hypostatically joined in one Divine Person!

God Bless,
RyanLBravo Ryan! Well said!
Pax tecum,
 
QUOTE=RyanL]I think you kinda’ missed the point on this one. Could you please cite the verse which tells us (1) who can marry two Christians and
pastors, justice of the peace,
(2) what words they’re supposed to say?
does not say, must not be vitally important
What about baptism - full immersion, or is pouring ok if you’re in a desert with minimal water?
One should not live in a desert. Its very hot. I know from personal experience.
I am not concerned how much water is used.
Is water required at all?
Well, yes.
What about the “Lord’s Supper”? How often are you supposed to do it?
does not say, must not be vitally important
Once a week, once a month, once a quarter, once a year, or once in a lifetime?
It does not say
Grape juice or wine? Common cup or does everyone bring their own? Thimbles?
nonessentials, have any more examples. if the Bible does not clearly say, it becomes a nonessential. We use wine. Why would anyone care what kind of cup?

None of this is “clearly found in Scripture”.
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
yes
But not Apostles, right? Say, do you have snake-handlers at your church?
No we are snake avoiders, if I have ever cause to pick one up, I will hope this is literal. It does not say you HAVE TO DO THESE. Does it?
BTW, we believe the Bishops are the successors of the Apostles, not strictly Apostles themselves. That said, since Jesus made a new Apostle after His resurrection (St. Paul), why would you think He’d suddenly stop doing that? Verse, please?
That would be a thread. Why dont you show me where it says Peter has one successor as head of the church?
Here’s one that’s not in there - the Canon of Scripture. There’s no “Divine Table of Contents”, so you pretty much have to rely on tradition to get this right. So no, “everything [you] need” isn’t “right there”.
You must not read my threads, I have commented at length on this.
Which is why all Protestants agree, right?
No. Hey, how are the traditionalists doing anyway?
Sure it is, and it’s more explicit than the two natures of Christ with two wills, hypostatically joined in one Divine Person!
God Bless,
RyanL
Thanks you as well
 
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newby:
Why would non-Catholics be on this forum if they are not interested in learning about our faith and considering conversion? I would like to hear from you non-Catholic members as to your answer. I appreciate all of the various oppinions and questions that arise, and welcome your consideration about the Catholic faith.

Bless you all, :angel1:

Newby
One that no one dares to admit is that they are here to proselytize Catholics out of the church because they have been indoctrinated with their favorite anti-Catholic verse.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues

Too bad that isn’t what that passage is talking about. :rolleyes:
 
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Fredricks:
All seven of your sacrements are found in some form in the Bible
Agreed. Does the bible tell us how to administer them explicitly?
The Bible does not mention there will be any more apostles
Wait a minute. By your logic, you should reexamine the doctrine of the Assumption. The Bible doesn’ mention what happened to Mary either but you assume she was not “Assumed”. Why are you willing to accept that silence in the Bible means there will be no more apostles but not that Mary was assumed?
I do not see anything to debate really. I think scripture is clear on all of this. You think, well it is not. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, the seven things you guys label sacrements later on, all there. Immaculate conception and assumption, which I do not believe, not in there. I really am not sure what you want me to say. I **think **it is all there.
But the Bible does not say that public revelation ended with the apostles and that there will be no more apostles. Why do you believe in something that is not there?

Do you agree that the Doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly taught in the Bible or do you believe the mystery of the Trinity is fully detailed in scriptures?
 
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Fredricks:
Luther, the anti-semite, take books out of the Bible guy?
I will pass.
Wait? Your Bible contains the books thrown out by Luther? Good news indeed! 👍
 
QUOTE=Eden]Agreed. Does the bible tell us how to administer them explicitly?
No. That is why the how is nonessential.
Wait a minute. By your logic, you should reexamine the doctrine of the Assumption. The Bible doesn’ mention what happened to Mary either but you assume she was not “Assumed”. Why are you willing to accept that silence in the Bible means there will be no more apostles but not that Mary was assumed?
I would not be opposed to an Assumption. I do not believe it because no one said a word about it for a very long time. My understanding is that all other assumptions are found in the Bible and since, i believe Catholic tradition had Mary, no longer around by 50 or so AD, I think, most of the NT was written after this. If people were assumed, I think logically someone would have said something. I just see no reason to believe it. I cannot disprove it. I can not prove it did not happen. That would be impossible I believe. I understand there is quite a bit of contradiction on this matter from early sources, I will have to provide a link sometime.
But it is not in there that public revelation ended with the apostles and that there will be no more apostles. Why do you believe in something that is not there?
I do not believe in something that is not in there because it is not in there! I have been saying this all along. If public revelation was to continue, it would say it.
Do you agree that the Doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly taught in the Bible or do you believe the mystery of the Trinity is fully detailed in scriptures?
The word mystery is rather appropriate don’t you think. I think that everything the Bible has to say about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is sufficient. That many have added layers, I do not deny. We have not.
 
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Eden:
Wait? Your Bible contains the books thrown out by Luther? Good news indeed! 👍
I have already started working on a thread on this. I have been told to not post such huge topics(from a dear friend who i sent my work to) and break it into smaller pieces to be more effective and i will do such. I think I will be more effective if I stick to smaller topics which will be more effective in conveying my point.
 
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Fredricks:
The word mystery is rather appropriate don’t you think. I think that everything the Bible has to say about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is sufficient. That many have added layers, I do not deny. We have not.
Can you give me a synopsis of what you teach about the Trinity - this Trinity “without added layers”?
 
On the Assumption of Mary:

The problem with showing Mary’s Assumption, (or the deaths of Mary or most of the Apostles, for that matter), in the Bible, is that the Gospel record ends before any of these events occurred. The Assumption is, however, implicit in Revelation Chapter 12 (see Queen of Heaven).

http://www.geocities.com/aprofaith/Imm_concep.jpgMary’s Bodily Assumption is also a long-standing teaching of the Ancient Churches. The celebratory festival in August dates from at least the 400s in Palestine, and had reached Gaul by the 500s. The setting of a Festival Day for a doctrine is evidence not only of a strong and almost universally-held belief in that doctrine, but also of a long-standing belief - since it is rare for Festival to be celebrated for a belief or incident for which there is not some long attestation. As a comparison, the date of December the 25th for the celebration of Christmas was set only in 354 AD by Pope Julius I.

Early references to the Assumption of Mary include Timothy of Jerusalem in around 380 AD, who wrote: “Wherefore the Virgin is immortal up to now, because He who dwelt in her took her to the regions of the Ascension,”

Gregory of Tours in 580 wrote: “Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who, we believe, was a virgin before and after childbirth, was, as we have said before, carried to Paradise preceded by the Lord amidst the singing of angelic choirs.”

Apocryphal writings detailing the Assumption have been dated back to the 200s. Although other early references are few, the fact that the Celebration of Mary’s Assumption into Heaven was not opposed in what was a highly disputatious age, argues strongly for a general acceptance and belief in the doctrine.

The fact that the Christian Community has believed from the earliest days that Mary was taken bodily into heaven can also be proved from the fact that no-one ever claimed to have her relics.

From the times of the persecutions, relics of the Saints had an immense value. Christians would often risk their lives to collect the remains of martyrs from the Arena and preserve their relics. In later days, having the body of a holy Saint in your church could make your city wealthy. St Peter’s body has the greatest church in the world built on top of it. Thomas a Becket drew enormous pilgrim crowds to Canterbury. St James drew millions to Compostella. Any Church or city that could have claimed to hold Mary’s body, or even a single bone from her finger would have at once become one of the richest and most popular places of pilgrimage in the world. In fact about 400 AD the Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. He was informed that there were no relics of Mary.

So valuable were relics that many were accused of fraudulently manufacturing them just to draw pilgrims and create wealth. Yet from the earliest days no-one has claimed to have the body of the Virgin Mary - or even as much as a single small bone. Why not? Because her body was hard to find? Not really. Plenty claimed to own part of the True Cross or even the Crown of Thorns. So why did no-one claim to have Mary’s body? There is one reason. Quite simply because no-one would have believed them. From the earliest days of the Church everyone KNEW that Mary’s body was not on earth. Every Christian knew that she had been assumed bodily into heaven. If there had been room for any argument about that fact, if there had been room for the slightest doubt, then some church somewhere would have claimed to have had Mary’s body.

www.geocities.com/aprofaith/virgin.htm
 
When do you guys contend she was Assumed, that would be the first thing i would need to know. Acts was written around 63 AD, which does talk about Mary and would have said something about it if this had occured. Revelation in the later part of 80’s AD or early 90 AD. Paul writes almost all of his letters in the 50’s and early 60’s. Peter wrote in the 60’s as well.
 
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Eden:
Can you give me a synopsis of what you teach about the Trinity - this Trinity “without added layers”?
I John 5:7
“For there are three bearing witness in heaven; the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 8:58 "‘I tell you the truth’, Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’
Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.”
John 10:38: “But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
Colossians 2:9: “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form”

We usually just quote the verses and let them stand on there own.
I am not sure what you want me to explain exactly.
 
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Fredricks:
When do you guys contend she was Assumed
The date is not certain. Here is an Orthodox understanding of what happened (which is much more detailed than Catholic sources, I think):

**The Dormition of the Mother of God. **

The Most-holy Mother of God after the Ascension of Jeus Christ continued to live on earth several years. One Christian historian says — ten years, and another — twenty-two years. Apostle John the Theologian, according to the instructions of Jesus Christ took Her into his home and cared for Her with great love as Her own son until the end of Her life. The Most-holy Mother of God became a mother to all twelve of the apostles in general. They prayed with Her with great joy and were comforted to listen to Her instructive conversations about the Saviour. When the Christian faith had spread to other lands, many Christians came from distant countries to see and listen to Her voice.

The rest is here:

www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/LG/dormition.shtml
 
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