If Our Lady wasn't perpetually virgin

  • Thread starter Thread starter adstrinity
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

adstrinity

Guest
Then how do you reckon Her hymen broke? Do you think that even though She was still sealed while She became pregnant, it was during delivery that she lost it? Are you of the opinion that it was like a light leaving, letting her remain intact, but later, if you hold to She isn’t still a virgin, it was broken the regular way? Do you think it was cut open before she gave birth?

I know virgin births today are rare (no joke, things can happen), but, how does a baby get out? Wouldn’t the woman need to be cut first? For those who do not believe the BVM is still a virgin, how have you thought about this?
 
Then how do you reckon Her hymen broke? Do you think that even though She was still sealed while She became pregnant, it was during delivery that she lost it? Are you of the opinion that it was like a light leaving, letting her remain intact, but later, if you hold to She isn’t still a virgin, it was broken the regular way? Do you think it was cut open before she gave birth?

I know virgin births today are rare (no joke, things can happen), but, how does a baby get out? Wouldn’t the woman need to be cut first? For those who do not believe the BVM is still a virgin, how have you thought about this?
I do not understand the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity as a matter of being physically intact. I see it as a teaching that protects the unique Personhood of our Lord and the unique role of Our Lady in the Mystery of the Incarnation.

Although physical details are not insignificant, the Virtue of virginity is not primarily about physical details except in a small, legalistic view of the matter.

Our Lady’s virginity comes under the heading of the VIRTUE of virginity, not the mere biological condition. Augustine says that "although virginity resides in the flesh, yet it is a spiritual thing, which a holy continency fosters and preserves.

The teaching on virginity is also tied in with the corruptibility of the flesh. The flesh that gave flesh to Our Lord is deemed to have been preserved from corruption.
 
Our Lady was perpetually virgin ~ before and after are easily understood. It is during the birth of Jesus that is the greatest mystery. However as Catholics it is part of the pertetual virginity of Mary and the doctirne ~ or we would not call Mary “ever” virgin. Here are two great links to read more about it.

totus2tuus.blogspot.com/2008/02/dogma-of-perpetual-virginity-of-mary.html

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=102

Our Blessed Mother’s virginity during the birth of Jesus is (in my opinion) the ignored aspect of Mary’s virginity, misunderstood and often times incorrectly explained. Prehaps because it is (in some respects) more profound than the mystery of the Annunciation.

It must be remember that Our Lady was perpetually virgin ~ before…during…after…EVER Virgin.
 
The continence of the hymen is not the physical proof of virginity. Hymens can be broken in other ways besides sexual intercourse, such as accident, medical exam, etc. It is sexual intercourse that renders a virgin no longer a virgin not the mere breaking of her hymen.
 
Is it official Roman Catholic dogma that Mary was a perpetual virgin? What is the spiritual significance of this teaching? Marriage in the Lord is a glorious thing… and it is used as a parallel between Christ and the universal church.
 
Is it official Roman Catholic dogma that Mary was a perpetual virgin? What is the spiritual significance of this teaching? Marriage in the Lord is a glorious thing… and it is used as a parallel between Christ and the universal church.
So, you’ve never heard of large Catholic families? 😉 Of course marriage is a glorious thing. It was instituted by Christ himself and is a sacrament of the Church. That does not mean, however that everyone MUST be married. There is no mandate from the Lord that everyone be married. In fact, the Apostle Paul wished everyone could be like him and not take a wife, in order to do the work of the Lord unhindered.

Mary perpetual virginity is connected intimately with Christ, her Son. It teaches us something about him, which is why it is important. None of the teachings of the Church about Mary are solely about her or even primarily about her, they are about Christ–his nature, his meaning, his mission, etc.

What Mary’s perpetual virginity tells us is that Jesus was not just another Jewish boy of a nice Jewish mother. He is the very Son of God, and Mary’s body, like the Ark of the Covenant is the place in which he dwelt, was conceived. And like the AofC nothing and no one else but God had possession of it or of Mary because she was set aside as the pure vessel of God.

The consecrated life is not unbiblical nor unnatural it is the state in life God sometimes chooses for those he wishes to serve him with all their being for his purposes.
 
…Again from the Marian Library at the University of Dayton:

**THE THEOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF MARY’S VIRGINITY **

"The theological significance of Mary’s virginity would seem to lie in her total self- giving to God and in her total fruitfulness as a result of that self-giving.

Cardinal Ratzinger has made some comments on the denial of the virginity of Mary:

The world-view that would force us psychologically to declare the virginal birth an impossibility clearly does not result from knowledge, but from an evaluation… Now we can say that the real reason behind the reasons against the confession of Mary’s virginity lies not in the field of a historical (exegetical) knowledge, but in the presuppositions of a world-view… Contrary to the usual presentation the real dispute occurs not between historical naiveté and historical criticism, but between two preconceptions of God’s relationship to His world…The affirmation of Jesus’ birth from the Virgin Mary intends to affirm these two truths: (1) God really acts - realiter, not just interpretative, and (2) the earth produces its fruit - precisely because He acts. The Natus ex Maria virgine is in its nucleus a strictly theological affirmation that bears witness to the God who has not let creation slip out of His hands. On this are based the hope, the freedom, the assurance, and the responsibility of the Christian.

St. Jerome writes: “For me, virginity is consecrated in the persons of Mary and of Christ.”

With St. Ambrose we see some of the theology of Mary’s virginity:

Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected. From this you may take your pattern of life, showing, as an example, the clear rules of virtue: what you have to correct, to effect, and to hold fast…What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? …For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing in words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have good will towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue… This is the likeness of virginity, for Mary was such that her example alone is a lesson for all… How many kinds of virtues shine forth in one Virgin! The secret of modesty, the banner of faith, the service of devotion, the Virgin within the house, the companion for the ministry, the mother at the temple."

Sometimes the dogma’s of the Church are mysteries ~ and they need to unfold in our lives…not the type of mysteries we need to solve. Have faith ~ pray to Mary ~ the mystery will begin to unfold.
 
I read on here that it is not Roman Catholic dogma to embrace Mary as co-redeemer. Are we saying that it is Roman Catholic dogma that Mary was a perpetual virgin? Is it Roman Catholic dogma that Mary was without sin too? I just want to know the official magestrium answers in regards to Mary.
 
I read on here that it is not Roman Catholic dogma to embrace Mary as co-redeemer. Are we saying that it is Roman Catholic dogma that Mary was a perpetual virgin?
It is one of the Marian Dogmas, yes. It was held as true by the early church fathers AND by the majority of Protestant reformers. It is only within the last couple hundred years (maybe not that long), that people have denied it.

Now, before you ask if it is in the Bible, would you want your mother’s sex life openly discussed?
 
It is one of the Marian Dogmas, yes. It was held as true by the early church fathers AND by the majority of Protestant reformers. It is only within the last couple hundred years (maybe not that long), that people have denied it.

Now, before you ask if it is in the Bible, would you want your mother’s sex life openly discussed?
Openly discussed = Bad

Defined as revealed dogma = Good

?

😛
 
It is one of the Marian Dogmas, yes. It was held as true by the early church fathers AND by the majority of Protestant reformers. It is only within the last couple hundred years (maybe not that long), that people have denied it.

Now, before you ask if it is in the Bible, would you want your mother’s sex life openly discussed?
I do not want to distort or misrepresent official Roman Catholic dogma. It is my understanding that all Roman Catholics must believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin because it is dogma. However, catholics are free to choose or reject Mary as co-redeemer with Christ since it is not dogma. How about Mary being without sin? Is this dogma all Catholics must believe?
 
I do not want to distort or misrepresent official Roman Catholic dogma. It is my understanding that all Roman Catholics must believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin because it is dogma. However, catholics are free to choose or reject Mary as co-redeemer with Christ since it is not dogma. How about Mary being without sin? Is this dogma all Catholics must believe?
Yes, there are 4 Marian dogmas:
  1. Theotokos (Council of Ephesus, 431)
  2. Perpetual virginity (Council of Trent, 1545-1563)
  3. Immaculate Conception (1854)
  4. Assumption (1950)
 
I do not want to distort or misrepresent official Roman Catholic dogma. It is my understanding that all Roman Catholics must believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin because it is dogma. However, catholics are free to choose or reject Mary as co-redeemer with Christ since it is not dogma. How about Mary being without sin? Is this dogma all Catholics must believe?
Some people do not like the co-redemptrix title, and no, Catholics are not bound to believe it as dogma.

We must believe she was a perpetual virgin (had no relations before or after Christ’s birth). We must believe that while she could have chosen to sin (as we all can) she never did and, as she was presrved from Original Sin at her conception (The Immaculate Conception) she was sinless her entire earthly life.
 
Openly discussed = Bad

Defined as revealed dogma = Good

?

😛
I was opening your smiling visage would make an appearance.

It is my position that this was known to the Apostles but not recorded in Scripture out of respect for her. Once she left this world, and I hold that she died after Acts was written, the Apostles could teach it to others. Thus, the early Church Fathers would hold to the view as well.
 
Actually, the statement I made was a Ralphism, not a truism of the CHurch.
 
Even so…I thought it somewhat…unfair/interesting/inequitable.
I had a response to your post that you deleted. once you did that, I followed suit. I actually see your point, but there is more to it than that.
 
I had a response to your post that you deleted. once you did that, I followed suit. I actually see your point, but there is more to it than that.
I would like to hear your take on it…if you wish to PM me I’d like to understand the “more”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top