If Our Lady wasn't perpetually virgin

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This is exactly where “the Protestant idea” of Mary as bordering on demigod comes from.
  1. There is more to God than “just me and Jesus”. That’s where the Holy Spirit comes in. If you’re trying to say that Mary is an essential part of God currently, you literally have elevated the Trinity into the Quadrinity.
It shouldn’t. If Protestants truly understood Mary’s roll, they would not have to accuse others of the misunderstanding of it.

I am not saying or trying to say that Mary is part of the Trinity. Forgive me if I made you think that. Mary is an essential part of God because She is a daughter of the Father, Mother to the Son, and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. God has taken Her amongst all women of history and made Her intimate with Him. God does not need Mary to exist, God does not need Mary at all, but, He did take Her and has elevated Her lowliness.
  1. If Mary and Joseph physically copulated, what difference does it make? Does it in any way denigrate her or her role in history as being chosen by the Almighty to bear the Messiah?
It makes the difference of Mary serving both God and Man. We are warned against this and since Mary is without sin, we know where Her priorities lie. And, I would have to say, apparently, it does make a difference because those who espouse that Mary had other children also accuse Her of being a sinner, which would alter Her role in history. The Messiah would not come through a woman who belongs to the devil.
  1. If Jesus had blood brothers (half-brothers, actually), does that denigrate Mary personally?
Yes, because She cannot serve both God and Man. She made a choice and we should look up to Her for being fully human and only human and chosing God always, without question, and without hesitation.
  1. For 2,000 years before Mary set foot on the earth, there was no “Holy Mother who loves us”. Did that affect the righteousness of Noah? Abraham? Israel? Moses? Joshua? Caleb? Gideon? David? Any of them?
They were waiting for Christ. They were waiting for the Woman who would bring Whom they were waiting for to us. We now have Her. She brought the fulfillment of all for which they waited. They were not allowed into Heaven without Jesus and they could not be allowed after Jesus until they were made perfect and understood perfectly.
  1. A “Holy Mother Church who looks over us”…does that include Protestant heathens such as myself? Or is the church supposed to be like Santa Claus?
The Church only knows who is naughty and nice through the Sacrament of Reconcilliation. Of course that means all Christians. The Church is Christ’s Bride, and while He is not physically here on Earth in His actual body, He gave authority to Her. She looks over us by telling us what Jesus wants and what is good and what is required for salvation (the objective of the Church is to make all of Her members saints). If you do not listen to your Mother, things will be difficult.
  1. Who says anything about not being able to see past a book? The basis of faith is looking past the seen and into the unseen. And if I have to look to who’s buried in the books, it would involve those who quote written traditions of early church leaders time after time. But that’s neither here nor there.
I tire of, “Where is that in the Bible?” We shouldn’t have to keep showing you all over and over and over again. ‘Rome has spoken, the case is closed’. – NOT St. Augustine.
Don’t tell me, tell it to the underground churches and those oppressed. “Your faith is amazing; you saw your family murdered for believing and yet held fast. But it was all for naught since none of you believed in these Marian doctrines. Enjoy burning for eternity, heathen.”
Don’t be errant, obtuse, or antagonistically castogating. One assumes that the things that you mention count as works. As works, this lessens their time in Purgatory, perhaps the persons involved will go straight to Heaven. Either place, they will learn the truth about Mary.
Scripture says that only two have ever entered the realm of the dead without physical death: Enoch and Elijah. If I refer to Elijah fleeing without being told to (unflattering, at minimum), would I need to ask to be forgiven on Elijah’s behalf?
What? Don’t project. Don’t derail.
Of course, by capitalizing these parts you’ve also gone into the demigod territory. But the bolded parts contradict each other anyway. How can one be tempted without being tempted?
No I have not. This is why we so badly need Mary and the Catholic Church because without them, accusations fly and misunderstandings and pride occurs. The bolded parts do not contradict each other. The devil tempted Mary into trying to sin (Her salvation was his destruction) but She was not in the least tempted to disobey God. He tried his damndest to do whatever he could to diobey God (as all sin is disobedience to the God who gave us life) but She was so repulsed by sin and had such a closeness with God, Her Lord, that there was NOTHING that the devil could do to Her or at Her to make Her want to lose that. She truly saw the devil for what it was and knew that whatever lies he said, She could only be happy with God.
 
It shouldn’t. If Protestants truly understood Mary’s roll, they would not have to accuse others of the misunderstanding of it.

I am not saying or trying to say that Mary is part of the Trinity. Forgive me if I made you think that. Mary is an essential part of God because She is a daughter of the Father, Mother to the Son, and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. God has taken Her amongst all women of history and made Her intimate with Him. God does not need Mary to exist, God does not need Mary at all, but, He did take Her and has elevated Her lowliness.
The last sentence makes perfect sense. The real question is to what extent has her lowliness been elevated? At bare minimum, we’re talking about someone that apparently found favor with God Almighty to be chosen to bear the Messiah. That in itself bears out that she was a pretty special woman, but that’s not the issue. I don’t know anyone that would deny that there was something special about Mary.

But really we’re down to splitting hairs. Among those who found favor throughout the Old Testament, who was the most favored? Could we determine that by the importance of their mission?
It makes the difference of Mary serving both God and Man. We are warned against this and since Mary is without sin, we know where Her priorities lie. And, I would have to say, apparently, it does make a difference because those who espouse that Mary had other children also accuse Her of being a sinner, which would alter Her role in history. The Messiah would not come through a woman who belongs to the devil.
The work of the Almighty had already advanced during the course of recorded human history regardless of who the person chosen for the mission was. King David was regarded as the ultimate fulfillment of the king of Israel until the Messiah, and yet he committed grievous sins.

Meantime, her role in history wouldn’t be compromised by what she did after the fact. Noah was found righteous enough to be chosen to be spared during the flood, yet his post-ark life doesn’t seem to be the model of holiness. Abraham was found righteous enough to be chosen as the ultimate patriarch, yet he still found enough lack of faith to have a child with Hagar. Moses was chosen to lead Israel to freedom and the promised land, but was excluded from entering for rebellion. Gideon was chosen to deliver Israel, yet still set up a golden idol. Samson was chosen to deliver Israel, but allowed his Nazirite vows to be stolen by a whore.
Yes, because She cannot serve both God and Man. She made a choice and we should look up to Her for being fully human and only human and chosing God always, without question, and without hesitation.
What can we say about Ruth? She wasn’t promised to bear the Messiah; in fact, she wasn’t even promised that God would be with her. She was from Israel’s enemy and going back destitute with her mother-in-law.
They were waiting for Christ. They were waiting for the Woman who would bring Whom they were waiting for to us. We now have Her. She brought the fulfillment of all for which they waited. They were not allowed into Heaven without Jesus and they could not be allowed after Jesus until they were made perfect and understood perfectly.
If Jesus had been raised from a rock (after all, John the Baptist did say that God could raise up sons of Abraham out of stones), would we revere the stone? People were waiting for the Messiah, not the mother.
The Church only knows who is naughty and nice through the Sacrament of Reconcilliation…
Not going there.
I tire of, “Where is that in the Bible?” We shouldn’t have to keep showing you all over and over and over again. ‘Rome has spoken, the case is closed’. – NOT St. Augustine.
Since the Bible is the only common ground of doctrine between Catholics and Protestants (since Protestants reject the catechism), I believe finding something in there might be a worthwhile endeavor.
Don’t be errant, obtuse, or antagonistically castogating. One assumes that the things that you mention count as works. As works, this lessens their time in Purgatory, perhaps the persons involved will go straight to Heaven. Either place, they will learn the truth about Mary.
I wish we could know the truth about Mary here and now. Not for the sake of “I told you so”, but because I’d really like to know. But, like the meaning of life, it will wait until I’m dead and eaten by buzzards.
What? Don’t project. Don’t derail.
It’s a legitimate question.
No I have not. This is why we so badly need Mary and the Catholic Church because without them, accusations fly and misunderstandings and pride occurs. The bolded parts do not contradict each other. The devil tempted Mary into trying to sin (Her salvation was his destruction) but She was not in the least tempted to disobey God. He tried his damndest to do whatever he could to diobey God (as all sin is disobedience to the God who gave us life) but She was so repulsed by sin and had such a closeness with God, Her Lord, that there was NOTHING that the devil could do to Her or at Her to make Her want to lose that. She truly saw the devil for what it was and knew that whatever lies he said, She could only be happy with God.
Accusations, misunderstandings, and pride existed long before Martin Luther lived. It was there before Mary lived. It probably started with Cain, who a wise man once referred to as “inventing sarcasm as well as murder”.

If you try to tempt someone but they’re not tempted in the least by it, is it temptation or just a bad idea?
 
So would that be a “yes” or “no” ?
Go back and read the post. It’s ALL laid out - IF you take the time to read it all.
I’m not a prisoner of the faulty man-made theory of Sola Scriptura like you are.

I answered your question elvisman. Post # 142
And a beautiful Non-answer it was.

Ahhhh, there is none so blind as she who refuses to see.

I think I’ve proven my point!
👍
 
adstrinity;4312043]😦 If you don’t see where Mary comes in, and this goes for you, too, Leeann, then this is exactly why Mary is so important. When Mary is taken out of the equation, the answer becomes a skewed Jesus, I’d like to reffer to Him as, “Mesus,” because he is they hybrid of, “Jesus & Me,” thinking. When Mary is invovled in this, one realizes that there is more to God than just me and Jesus. When one desecrates Our Blessed Virgin Mother, one starts coming up with erronious theology such as, She & Joseph had sex, Jesus had blood brothers, if we don’t have a Holy Mother who loves us, we don’t have a Holy Mother Church to look over us, and then the worst offense, having faith in what a book says, but, not being able to see past that book, though we are told that blessed are they who don’t see. O LORD WHAT FOOLS THESE MORTALS BE!
Where do you get the idea that sex between husbands and wives would be some kind of desecration or that Jesus had blood brothers?
When one loses Mary, one loses who Christ truly is. One simply cannot know who Jesus is without knowing Mary. One who loses Mary or doesn’t know Her, puts Jesus into their own understanding of getting His human nature through the Virgin Mary without understanding just how human He really is.
These statements here are some of the most unbiblical statements a person could ever make. If this were true why don’t we see such statements like this in the Scriptures?
If you love Christ Jesus, please ask Him for forgiveness of the things you’ve said about His Mother, please ask Him to introduce you to His Mother.
There is no sin in denying what you say about Mary for the mere fact the Scriptures never command such loyalty and devotion to her.
As a last comment, Mary, we know, was tempted by the devil. The Bible says so, She was just always able, by the grace of God, to say no, and to have such a revulsion to sin that She was not in the least tempted by it. She was the Perfect Woman fit for a King.
Do you have chapter and verse for this claim?
 
Again, I’m familiar with this doctrine. I don’t believe that it’s essential for salvation; I can’t find any scriptural backing for it no matter who it is that’s making the statements. I don’t see “The greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul; love your neighbor as yourself; and believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin married to the Holy Spirit who was free of any type of sin from birth.” I don’t see “I tell you the truth, criminal, that today you will be with me in Paradise for believing in me as Messiah. But you’ll still be scourged with whips of flame for all eternity if you don’t believe that the woman down there at the foot of the cross is and always has been a virgin.”
Haven’t you ever considered that the dogma of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity may have something more to do than with your salvation? 🤷
 
Haven’t you ever considered that the dogma of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity may have something more to do than with your salvation? 🤷
Of course. I also have considered whether it has anything to do with the salvation of others.
 
Where do you get the idea that sex between husbands and wives would be some kind of desecration or that Jesus had blood brothers?
Sex between husbands and wives is not desecration in any way. This, however, does not have to do with St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary, who didn’t have sex.
These statements here are some of the most unbiblical statements a person could ever make. If this were true why don’t we see such statements like this in the Scriptures?
Exactly my point.

The Bible did not give birth to Jesus
There is no sin in denying what you say about Mary for the mere fact the Scriptures never command such loyalty and devotion to her.
Please pray harder.
Do you have chapter and verse for this claim?
Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12:15-17.
 
adstrinity;4320646]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where do you get the idea that sex between husbands and wives would be some kind of desecration or that Jesus had blood brothers?
adstrinity;
Sex between husbands and wives is not desecration in any way. This, however, does not have to do with St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary, who didn’t have sex.
It would be unbiblical for them not to engage in sexual relations. Secondly, their engaging in sex would doing nothing to impact the incarnation or His ministry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
These statements here are some of the most unbiblical statements a person could ever make. If this were true why don’t we see such statements like this in the Scriptures?
adstrinity;
Exactly my point.
The Bible did not give birth to Jesus
True. However it is only in them that tell us of His coming and how it came to be. Without them we would know nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
There is no sin in denying what you say about Mary for the mere fact the Scriptures never command such loyalty and devotion to her.
adstrinity;
Please pray harder.
We don’t need to pray about this but study the Scriptures and follow what they teach. They do not teach any kind of devotion to Mary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Do you have chapter and verse for this claim?
adstrinity;
Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12:15-17.
Major problems using these passages for Mary.
 
It would be unbiblical for them not to engage in sexual relations. Secondly, their engaging in sex would doing nothing to impact the incarnation or His ministry.
“Unbiblical”? Seeing as how St. Joseph and the BVM didn’t read or rely on the Bible, I’m sure they didn’t know that they were being unBiblical by not having sex.

It’s a moot point because they didn’t have sex and there’s no reason to think they had.
True. However it is only in them that tell us of His coming and how it came to be. Without them we would know nothing.
This cannot be proved.
We don’t need to pray about this but study the Scriptures and follow what they teach. They do not teach any kind of devotion to Mary.
You need to pray to ask Jesus for understanding, and to apologize for dismissing His Mother.

Furthermore, one needs to pray before studying the Bible. The Scriptures say that the Church is the pillar and truth. If the pillar and truth teaches a devotion to Mary, then by God, you have devotion to Mary.
Major problems using these passages for Mary.
Only if one tries to define them regarding Sola Scriptura.
 
adstrinity;4320872]
Originally Posted by justasking4
It would be unbiblical for them not to engage in sexual relations. Secondly, their engaging in sex would doing nothing to impact the incarnation or His ministry.
adstrinity
“Unbiblical”? Seeing as how St. Joseph and the BVM didn’t read or rely on the Bible, I’m sure they didn’t know that they were being unBiblical by not having sex.
We know from Mary’s reponse to the angel that she certainly did know something of the OT.
It’s a moot point because they didn’t have sex and there’s no reason to think they had.
You have to assume this against all the evidence to the contrary. It would be not only unbiblical but unheard of for a woman and man to remain virgins in marriage. God created men and women to procreate in a marriage relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
True. However it is only in them that tell us of His coming and how it came to be. Without them we would know nothing.
adstrinity
This cannot be proved.
Sure it can. We have the written gospels for example and not much is said about Christ outside of them in secular writings. Christianity has always been a faith of the written Word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
We don’t need to pray about this but study the Scriptures and follow what they teach. They do not teach any kind of devotion to Mary.
adstrinity
You need to pray to ask Jesus for understanding, and to apologize for dismissing His Mother.
Please show me where the Lord Jesus commanded His followers to pray to His mother?
Furthermore, one needs to pray before studying the Bible. The Scriptures say that the Church is the pillar and truth. If the pillar and truth teaches a devotion to Mary, then by God, you have devotion to Mary.
I understand your church teaches this but they are not deriving this doctrine and practice from the Word of God. It is the teachings of men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Major problems using these passages for Mary.
adstrinity
Only if one tries to define them regarding Sola Scriptura.
Not so. There are even Catholic scholars who have problems with these passages being about Mary.
 
We know from Mary’s reponse to the angel that she certainly did know something of the OT.
The OT does not the Bible make.
You have to assume this against all the evidence to the contrary. It would be not only unbiblical but unheard of for a woman and man to remain virgins in marriage. God created men and women to procreate in a marriage relationship.
There is no evidence to the contrary. There is the truth and those who oppose it.

It would have been unheard of for a woman and man to remain virgins in marriage, it’s disgusting and not what God commanded. Mary was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. St. Joseph was Her most chaste spouse. In actuality, they never consumated the marriage because She was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. In this way, they were not contractually married. Seeing as how God came into the Virgin Mary Herself to produce offspring and bear fruits in this way, Mary had no need to physically give birth to anybody else, and She was not called to do so. She remained a virgin throughout Her life. St. Joseph had other children, so, his lineage did not depend on Our Blessed Virgin Mother’s womb.
Sure it can. We have the written gospels for example and not much is said about Christ outside of them in secular writings. Christianity has always been a faith of the written Word.
No, it can’t. We have what is written now. We cannot go back in time and see if Catholocism and Her offspring would still have grown without having the benefit of Her Writtings.
Please show me where the Lord Jesus commanded His followers to pray to His mother?
I keep asking you to pray to Jesus. Thricely I have asked you to please pray to Jesus to give you humility and pardon regarding His Mother. I have not asked you or told you to pray to His Mother. Justasking, if you can not understand what I write, why should anybody think you can understand what is written in the Bible? The Bible was put together by better Catholics than I.
I understand your church teaches this but they are not deriving this doctrine and practice from the Word of God. It is the teachings of men.
The Church teaches this because it is the truth. The Bible agrees with the Church (1 Tim 3:15).
Not so. There are even Catholic scholars who have problems with these passages being about Mary.
It doesn’t matter. The Catholic Church has said so. There is the truth and those who oppose it.
 
I keep asking you to pray to Jesus. Thricely I have asked you to please pray to Jesus to give you humility and pardon regarding His Mother. I have not asked you or told you to pray to His Mother.
If you love Christ Jesus, please ask Him for forgiveness of the things you’ve said about His Mother, please ask Him to introduce you to His Mother.
This is way out of line and I am very surprised and dismayed that you have not been called out by a fellow Catholic on these statements. I pray that I have just missed the post by fellow Catholics saying that such statements are not called for or correct.

The above statements from you have been over the top! I honestly don’t believe that I have said anything wrong believing that Mary and Joseph had a blessed “normal” marriage. Would it be better for me to believe that Mary was blessed except when it came to having a loving intimate marriage??

The Peace of the Lord be with you!
 
Please show me where the Lord Jesus commanded His followers to pray to His mother?
Ummm . . . is this enough Biblical evidence for you that we are asked to pray for one another? We ask Mary to pray** for**** us because – even though you think she is dead, she is more alive than you and I are – as are all of the saints in heaven. St. Paul says that we are more radically joined together than the finger is to the hand.
Prayer to Mary and the saints is
not
worship – it is petition, just as if you asked me to pray for you.**

3 John 1:2
1 John 5:16.
James 5:13-16.
Philemon 1:6.
2 Thessalonians 3:1-2.
1 Thessalonians 5:25.
Colossians 4:12.
1 Thessalonians 1:2.
1 Thessalonians 3:10.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12.
1 Timothy 2:1-4.
2 Timothy 1:3.
Colossians 4:2-4.
Philippians 1:9-11.
Ephesians 6:18-20.
Ephesians 3:16-19.
Ephesians 1:16-19.
2 Corinthians 13:9.
2 Corinthians 13:7.
Romans 10:1.
Romans 15:31-32.

I understand your church teaches this but they are not deriving this doctrine and practice from the Word of God. It is the teachings of men.
**Men who are guided by the Holy Spirit into ALL truth - as Jesus promised. (John 16:13-15) **
That is the legacy Jesus left.

As a Protestant, the only legacy you have is rebellion against Jesus’ Church, born of pridefulness . . .
 
elvisman;4321605]Ummm . . . is this enough Biblical evidence for you that we are asked to pray for one another? We ask Mary to pray** for**** us because – even though you think she is dead, she is more alive than you and I are – as are all of the saints in heaven. St. Paul says that we are more radically joined together than the finger is to the hand.
Prayer to Mary and the saints is
not
worship – it is petition, just as if you asked me to pray for you.**

3 John 1:2
1 John 5:16.
James 5:13-16.
Philemon 1:6.
2 Thessalonians 3:1-2.
****
1 Thessalonians 5:25.
Colossians 4:12.
1 Thessalonians 1:2.
1 Thessalonians 3:10.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12.
1 Timothy 2:1-4.
2 Timothy 1:3.
****
Colossians 4:2-4.****
Philippians 1:9-11.
Ephesians 6:18-20.
****
Ephesians 3:16-19.
Ephesians 1:16-19.
2 Corinthians 13:9.
2 Corinthians 13:7.
Romans 10:1.
Romans 15:31-32.
**Men who are guided by the Holy Spirit into ALL **truth - as Jesus promised. (John 16:13-15)
Jesus and His apostles also warned that there would false teachers who would come into the church and decieve many. This is what you must be on guard against. That’s why this topic is so important. If there is no support in Scripture that Mary was a perpetual virgin then what should we call it?
 
Ummm . . . is this enough Biblical evidence for you that we are asked to pray for one another? We ask Mary to pray** for**** us because – even though you think she is dead, she is more alive than you and I are – as are all of the saints in heaven. St. Paul says that we are more radically joined together than the finger is to the hand.
Prayer to Mary and the saints is
not
worship – it is petition, just as if you asked me to pray for you.**
Is that just officially canonized saints who are “more alive”? How about righteous men that aren’t officially canonized? If my grandfather was an upstanding man who is not recognized as such by the church and I pray to him, is that Scriptural or is that ancestor worship?
**Men who are guided by the Holy Spirit into ALL **truth - as Jesus promised. (John 16:13-15)
That is the legacy Jesus left.

As a Protestant, the only legacy you have is rebellion against Jesus’ Church, born of pridefulness . . .
I’d love to know how many Catholics came to Jesus after hearing a Protestant. Billy Graham, the Salvation Army, various charities, etc.
 
Jesus and His apostles also warned that there would false teachers who would come into the church and decieve many. This is what you must be on guard against. That’s why this topic is so important. If there is no support in Scripture that Mary was a perpetual virgin then what should we call it?
And there HAVE been false teachers and they exist today. There are thousands of Protestant sects that are alive and and as I said, born of pridefulness and rebellion. They teach partial truth but do not present the fullness of the gospel - as does Jesus’ pilgrim Church - the Catholic Church.

What you fail to see is that Jesus also assured us that the gates of hell wouldn’t prevail against his Church (Matt. 16:15-19)
 
Is that just officially canonized saints who are “more alive”? How about righteous men that aren’t officially canonized? If my grandfather was an upstanding man who is not recognized as such by the church and I pray to him, is that Scriptural or is that ancestor worship?.
You can’t be faulted with having the hope that your loved ones are in heaven. I have that same hope for my father and other family members and friends. To ask them for intercession would not be out of bounds and the Church doesn’t teach that is.
I’d love to know how many Catholics came to Jesus after hearing a Protestant. Billy Graham, the Salvation Army, various charities, etc.
**Probably many. That doesn’t make the messenger right.
Many people came to God after a nightmare of drugs, alcohol and despair.

I have great respect for men like Billy Graham. He preaches Jesus to a lot of people who don’t know him - and he does it without being an anti-Catholic like so many others. He truly believes in the brotherhood of all Christians, as do I.
**
I pray for Billy though, that he along with all of my separated brethren would realize the fullness of the Christian faith that is the Catholic Church.
 
This is way out of line and I am very surprised and dismayed that you have not been called out by a fellow Catholic on these statements. I pray that I have just missed the post by fellow Catholics saying that such statements are not called for or correct.

The above statements from you have been over the top! I honestly don’t believe that I have said anything wrong believing that Mary and Joseph had a blessed “normal” marriage. Would it be better for me to believe that Mary was blessed except when it came to having a loving intimate marriage??

The Peace of the Lord be with you!
Like Martha’s sister Mary, our Blessed Mother chose “the better part” for the sake of the kingdom. Mother Theresa couldn’t have served our Lord and his Church and humanity with such undivided love and faith if she had been married. Her offspring were spiritual in nature, as are the other offspring of Mary who was given to us as a mother (the New Eve) by Jesus from the cross (Jn 19:26-27). The Catholic Church has perceived Mary in this capacity since apostolic time. Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John (c. A.D.110) is the first Church Father to allude to Mary as the New Eve. Like the great matriarch of Israel, Sarah, Mary had only one child of promise who was born free from the bondage of slavery, slavery of sin. Her other offspring are the adopted sons of God who do his will by renouncing sin and disobedience to God.

Then the dragon became angry with the ‘woman’ and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring (Jn 19:26-27), those who keep God’s commandments (Jn 2:5) and bear witness to Jesus.
Revelation 12, 17

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed.”
Genesis 3, 15


As the New Eve and Mother of the Church, Mary could not have given birth to children conceived in original sin by the seed of Joseph. Her seed is of the Holy Spirit. For the purpose of her Divine Maternity, Mary was preserved free from the stain of original sin. Her womb was sanctified. The gate was to remain closed (Ezek 44:2-3). The espousal between Mary and the Holy Spirit was mystical. Joseph’s role was that of a guardian and step-father to Jesus. The Almighty did not impose himself on Mary and use her as a form of “incubator”.

A garden enclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Song 4, 12

"For if Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus, and yet Jesus says to his Mother, ‘Woman, behold thy son,’ and not, ‘Behold you have this son also,’ then He virtually said to her, ‘Lo this is Jesus, whom thou didst bear.’ Is it not the case that every one who is perfect lives himself no longer, but Christ lives in him; and if Christ lives in him, then it is said of him to Mary, ‘Behold thy son Christ.’ "
Origen, Commentary on John, 1:6 [A.D. 232]


Deus tibi benedicas :signofcross:
 
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