If Protestantism Is True

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I don’t want to speak on behalf of pablope (and I admit I haven’t been reading every post), but I believe his point is: “How do you know that Scripture is God’s Word?” For example, how do you know the Second Epistle to Timothy is inspired by God?
If the Catholic church has good resigning on why Scripture is God’s Word - as a Lutheran, I can’t think of any reason not to embrace that same reasoning with vigor and be glad for it.

On a personal level, as a previous Agnostic, I found the bible to be a singular book that surpasses all other in orders by an order of magnitude in it’s wisdom, charity, applicability and saliency. Based on my scientific eye it’s the penultimate book - parts of it remind me of a fractal, other parts remind me of a hologram, and yet the message is one for all time. Again, this is a personal viewpoint.
 
Hmmmm…but which authority will you accept that will accomplish this for protestants?

You can certainly state this till kingdom come…but the question that remains unanswered is…where is that authority that you will submit to?
Hi Pablope—In my post which you quoted, I was simply speaking to Ben; and he has already graciously replied to my post.

How do you mean for your user name to be pronounced in readers’ minds—Pablo PE or pab-lope?
 
Has anyone else read this book? (“If Protestantism Is True” by Devin Rose) I’m currently reading it and it has raised some very convincing points for me to really want to join the Catholic church. Granted, I started reading it because I was already interested and was looking for more information on the subject. Any suggestions of other books I should read while continuing my current plans of joining an RCIA class in September? I would also like to lead my husband this direction through use of good logic. He’s a math guy and less inclined to follow his heart and feelings over logical points. Any book suggestions that you think would be good for him would also be appreciated.
I’d put aside the word of man for a little while and read the unbiased Holy Bible. It is after all the word of the Almighty God. :love:

Start in the book of Romans and pay close attention to Ephesians2: 8-9, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.”😃
 
I’d put aside the word of man for a little while and read the unbiased Holy Bible. It is after all the word of the Almighty God. :love:
Except, Yendis, you are taking the word of some Catholic bishops from the 4th century that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God.

You would not know it any other way.

That is, the ONLY way that you know that the book of Hebrews is inspired is because some men–some Catholic men–discerned this for you centuries ago.

So you are relying on the words of men each and every time you quote, for example, the book of Hebrews.
 
Except, Yendis, you are taking the word of some Catholic bishops from the 4th century that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God.

You would not know it any other way.

That is, the ONLY way that you know that the book of Hebrews is inspired is because some men–some Catholic men–discerned this for you centuries ago.

So you are relying on the words of men each and every time you quote, for example, the book of Hebrews.
Over 1000 times The Bible claims itself to be true. Meaning, over 1000 times the scriptures claim to be the word of God. If you do not believe that the scriptures are the the word of God, you are not only not Roman Catholic, but you are not Christian. 👍

After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31). After looking at the evidence, one can say without a doubt that, yes, the Bible is truly God’s Word.

Taken from: gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html (Scripture from Bible)
 
Over 1000 times The Bible claims itself to be true.
The Koran also claims that it is true.
As does the book of Mormon.

Surely you cannot believe that just because something says it’s true that it is!

When you quote the Bible, Yendis, you are giving tacit authority to the fact that you believe the Catholic Church got it right in discerning for you that 1 Peter is inspired but that the Letter of Barnabas isn’t.

That’s the ONLY way you know 1 Peter is inspired. 🙂
 
Except, Yendis, you are taking the word of some Catholic bishops from the 4th century that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God.

You would not know it any other way.

That is, the ONLY way that you know that the book of Hebrews is inspired is because some men–some Catholic men–discerned this for you centuries ago.

So you are relying on the words of men each and every time you quote, for example, the book of Hebrews.
Notwithstanding the fact that there are no original manuscripts. So let’s not forget our debt to the monks in the monasteries…
 
After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31).
And how did you know that St. Mark wrote this? And that it is inspired?

Because the Catholic Church told you that it’s inspired.

You reject the Gospel of Thomas because the Catholic Church told you it’s not inspired.
 
I don’t want to speak on behalf of pablope (and I admit I haven’t been reading every post), but I believe his point is: “How do you know that Scripture is God’s Word?” For example, how do you know the Second Epistle to Timothy is inspired by God?
If I take that question as serious it would call in to question on you being Roman Catholic since the RCC holds that the OT and NT is inspired Scripture. These questions are those of one who rejects Christianity altogether or that of atheist or agnostic. Casting doubt in God’s Word is the lie of Satan . Always remember that. Your question very much reminds of me the serpent in Gen 3 who deceived Eve in to eating the forbiding fruit by causing doubt of God’s Word. Thats not a good thing. :confused:
 
Indeed. Those Catholic monks in Catholic monasteries. :signofcross:
I do find it ironic when some protestants support their arguments with sources other than the bible – like Yendis just did (pointing you to www.gotquestions.org).

“I believe scripture alone is the standard for our faith. And if you don’t believe me, just read this website, or this professor, or this book that some man wrote, etc…”

I thought, from a protestant perspective, we were supposed to be able to just read the bible and decide on our own what it all means… we don’t need the church, we have the bible!!
 
I don’t want to speak on behalf of pablope (and I admit I haven’t been reading every post), but I believe his point is: “How do you know that Scripture is God’s Word?” For example, how do you know the Second Epistle to Timothy is inspired by God?
But those are questions that atheist and agnostics and those who reject Christianity ask. These are not professings Christians should be asking considering we already agree on at least 66 books and only disagree on the apocrypha. It is a very big turn off when I see stuff like that . I can answer that very easy but I dont like having to do so towards another professing believer. Questions like those cast doubt on God’s Word and is not something to joke around with or even proper to be asking when it is assumed we agree that Scripture is inspired. 🤷
 
If I take that question as serious it would call in to question on you being Roman Catholic since the RCC holds that the OT and NT is inspired Scripture. These questions are those of one who rejects Christianity altogether or that of atheist or agnostic. Casting doubt in God’s Word is the lie of Satan . Always remember that. Your question very much reminds of me the serpent in Gen 3 who deceived Eve in to eating the forbiding fruit by causing doubt of God’s Word. Thats not a good thing. :confused:
Okay, Chafer. Before you became a believer, how did YOU know that the Bible was God’s Word? Were you like the serpent…?

Asked another way, at what point were you told Scripture was God’s Word, and when did you start to believe it, and why?
 
If I take that question as serious it would call in to question on you being Roman Catholic since the RCC holds that the OT and NT is inspired Scripture. These questions are those of one who rejects Christianity altogether or that of atheist or agnostic. Casting doubt in God’s Word is the lie of Satan . Always remember that. Your question very much reminds of me the serpent in Gen 3 who deceived Eve in to eating the forbiding fruit by causing doubt of God’s Word. Thats not a good thing. :confused:
For Catholic (and Orthodox and Oriental and Assyrian) we have no problem with affirming the Scripture as Word of God, because we resolve to two sources: The Apostolic Succession and the Tradition.

But from Sola Scriptura reasoning, those Tradition and authority of Apostolic Succession are profitable, and since it cannot be directly asserted in the Scripture, is fallible.

This creates a problem: When the Scripture is not yet canonized, you need authority that work within sola scriptura method to doctrinally assert that this book and not that one, is part of Scripture. But you not have yet a bundle of books called Scripture with Old and New testament.

Thus logically speaking, the book you now regard as Scripture, is a fallible collection of infallible books.
The probability that the books inside that collection are actually not Word of God will always be there.

Thus the question regarding canon:
Does the canon can be considered doctrine? By the canon it means that these and only these books are to be regarded as scripture, infallible word of God, distinct from different books even if they are most profitable.

And, the question that public revelation is definitely closed, isn’t it part of doctrine? Is it important for salvation to affirm this?
But is this definite teaching that public revelation ended with the last apostle contained in the scripture? Why draw the line with the last apostle?
If it not important for our salvation, then the question that further revelation in par with the current scripture is impossible to reject.

Like other poster said, confessions, traditions, catechisms, are profitable but not infallible.
These two questions, I believe, is more than profitable, it is very important. Are these mere fallible but profitable tradition, or something we can give assent of faith?

If these two questions are only fallible-although profitable tradition, we cannot rule out new revelation, such as the additional Mormon scripture.
 
The Koran also claims that it is true.
As does the book of Mormon.

Surely you cannot believe that just because something says it’s true that it is!

When you quote the Bible, Yendis, you are giving tacit authority to the fact that you believe the Catholic Church got it right in discerning for you that 1 Peter is inspired but that the Letter of Barnabas isn’t.

That’s the ONLY way you know 1 Peter is inspired. 🙂
That was the early church friend. The Koran was over 600 years after Christ. The Book of Mormon was written around 1980 (I forget the exact date).🤷

If you don’t believe the Bible to be true, you don’t trust him to be real. 😦
 
That was the early church friend. The Koran was over 600 years after Christ. The Book of Mormon was written around 1980 (I forget the exact date).🤷
So are you saying that just because something says it’s true, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is true, correct?
If you don’t believe the Bible to be true, you don’t trust him to be real. 😦
I believe, just like you, that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, because the Catholic Church discerned for me, and for you, what belonged in the Bible. That’s the ONLY way you know what is inspired, Yendis.
 
Okay, Chafer. Before you became a believer, how did YOU know that the Bible was God’s Word? Were you like the serpent…?

Asked another way, at what point were you told Scripture was God’s Word, and when did you start to believe it, and why?
I grew up within a professing Christian family though I was not born or raised up in Protestantism. I dont generally speaking disclose details in public unless it is a close friend in private. I always held it was God’s Word even when I considered myself in a state of unbelief. It was through my verse by verse reading of Scripture which lead me to believe it was Divine in orgin rather than mere words of men. I saw a very consistant message of God to man and his need of eternal salvation. It was it’s good use of historical details within Scripture that proved itself at least as a historical record for me and using history books to compare things on it to important related details and it’s prophecys relating to Jesus Christ Himself relating to his first coming . The case of the prophecy of Cyrus before he was born hunderds of years that was made. Scripture is a very much a supernatural product of God. It had nothing to do with the church saying is inspired but rather the contents of Scripture itself. It is a matter of faith that Scripture is a revelation of God to man. The responsibility of the church is to be a wittness of it due to the internal evidence found in Scripture. If Scripture is not God’s Word than Christianity altogether is therefore not true. If one does not believe Scripture is inspired that person might as well be an atheist or agnostic or one who rejects theism. Scripture is special as it is the product of divine inspiration unlike the so called writings that Mormons, Muslims , Adventist and others have. I dont need a so called burning bosom to know that Scripture is true but it is a faith based on evidence. Scripture itself right in Gen 1:1 affirms and declares the existance of God Himself. That is assumed in to a fact. God does not argue for his existance there but states it as true.Would a professing believer in Jesus try and say that God is using a circular argument for His existance ? The proper Christian position is that Scripture is divine revelation and inspired by God with this presuposition when reading it. I see the only choice to be either to accept Scripture as being inspired God’s Word or to reject Christianity altogether. To cast doubt on Scripture is inviting a person to reject the Christian faith point blank. Hope you understand what I am saying. Even if I was Roman Catholic in my beliefs I would be very distrubed by the questions that was being asked.
 
IThe proper Christian position is that Scripture is divine revelation and inspired by God with this presuposition when reading it. I see the only choice to be either to accept Scripture as being inspired God’s Word or to reject Christianity altogether. To cast doubt on Scripture is inviting a person to reject the Christian faith point blank. Hope you understand what I am saying. Even if I was Roman Catholic in my beliefs I would be very distrubed by the questions that was being asked.
The question being posed is not to “cast doubt on Scripture”, Chafer.

The question being posed is to get you to understand that when you accept Scripture as inspired, what you are doing is acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church.

For it was the Catholic Church that discerned for you, from over 400 early Christian writings, what was* theopneustos *and what was not.

That’s the ONLY way you know that Hebrews is inspired but that the Shepherd of Hermas isn’t.

Because of the authority of the Catholic Church. 🤷
 
The question being posed is to get you to understand that when you accept Scripture as inspired, what you are doing is acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church.
Like I said, whatever reasoning that Catholic church has for the Scripture being the word of God, I accept.

But it could be logical to acknowledge the authority of the early Catholic church while doubting later Catholic church based on it’s subsequent behavior.

And even among both-lungs of the Catholic church, there’s no firm agreement on what books are in the bible - the East having more and different.
 
We can put it in another way. How does one know Jesus existed by reading the Bible? After all it could have been a book full of made up stories. So who wrote it?

Im sure with due diligent research one can go back and find out the answer. The last thing one must do is believe in the Bible because someone said it is true. How did that person know? It will lead eventually to the Church.

Try it:thumbsup:

MJ
 
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