Edwin,
I thought the purpose of the Church was to change the world, not to be changed by the world.
Yes, this is the attitude of the OHCAC in regards to the others. But I’m not sure if the others have a similar attitude about the OHCAC. It will probably vary considerably.
Love it! Saving this nugget on my Word Document of Apologetic Pearls of Wisdom! :bowdown:
At least at this point, I don’t think this would be a fair assessment of the LCMS.
The Lutheran synods are pretty much lining up on either side of a rather sharp divide over women’s ordination & homosexual marriages, separating the liberal synods such as ELCA and the conservative (or confessional) synods such as LC-MS, WELS, ELS etc.
(1**) I regard most doctrines as metaphors.** As mortals, we really can't understand this vast and awesome universe, and we yearn to do so. So, we devise theologies based mainly on myths that help us make sense of this world and our relationship to it. I have no problem with this. Humans need it. However, when any church begins to say that it alone is the one, true church, that its dogmas are infallible - that's when I have a problem. Sounds much less than humble to me.
(2) **Religious faith is a lot like art or music.** We don't ask: is that art true or is that music true? We judge it in large measure by what it does to and/or for us. Most doctrine, in my view, is not so much a matter of truth, which is beyond our human understanding, but do such dogmas provide us with courage, kindness, compassion, confidence, faith, bope and especially love? Creeds were written mainly to identify and ostracize 'heretics'. Even St. Thomas Aquinas said that heretics should be executed! Dogmatic thinking - we have the truth and you don't! - led to several centuries of conflict and even sectarian killing. It still is at the root of much bigotry and arrogance today.
(3) **Most mainline Protestants I know - and most Catholics, too. for that matter - don't regard their particular church as superior to all others**. Protestants, in fact, are apt to change denominations quite easily - when they move, for example. This has much more to do with other factors than doctrine. It is determined more by friendliness. location, church program, preaching, music, times of worship, facilities, parking, etc.Often Presbyterian neighbors invite a Methodist family, new in the area, to their church, and the Methodists become Presbyterians. Not a major change. In Canada, for example, there are no Methodists, no Congregationalists and few Presbyterians. Why? The Methodist, Congregationalist and majority of Presbyterian churches merged to become the United Church of Canada. Most mainline Protestants I know are very ecumenical, very slow to judge the religious faith of others. We need this spirit within Catholicism. I had hoped that John XXIII succeeded in doing that, but we seem to have slipped since Vatican II - the hierarchy, not the people.Why? What do we have to gain from reading them? How do you know they are telling the truth?
According to LifeWay Research, those who switch to a new church are looking for a church based on the church’s beliefs/doctrine, preaching, and the authenticity of church members/pastor.
My own ‘findings’ re church changing would include the following:
If a person goes from Catholic to mainline Protestant, factors include marriage and the desire for a more liberal faith (both theologically and often on such issues as role of women, marriage of clergy, birth control question, attitude toward gays, etc.),
If a person goes from Catholic to evangelical Protestant, factors include marriage, evangelistic success of neighbors, friends or evangelical relatives, worship style (dynamic preaching, rollicking music, informality), authoritative Biblical method. aggressive friendliness.
If a person goes from one Protestant church to another, it often doesn't mean much, as they do that all the time. It may be influenced by everything from appeal of preacher, choirs, and youth program to facilities, location, and parking. I have known a Presbyterian who was baptized in a Lutheran Church, confirmed in a Methodist Church, now a Presbyterian, who has a sister in the UCC (United Church of Christ) and a brother in an Assembly of God.
Doctrine rarely plays a role, except that a dynamic evangelical preacher, quoting the Bible, can be quite appealing and fill a church.**I would say that would depend upon what denomination of Protestant one is.!
As for Lutherans, I think this depends upon the denomination within Lutheranism. The ELCA, for example, is generally quite liberal, truly mainline Protestant, while the Wisconsin and Missouri synods would not be so. Consider Bachman, for example, who is from a fundamentalist form of Lutheranism (one that, by the way, sharply condemns Catholicism in its historical documents).
It probably is true that Lutherans are much more likely to remain Lutheran if they move from one community to another. They are a more confessional church, resembling in many ways Catholicism when it comes to worship patterns. The Lutheran liturgy reflects the Mass in numerous respects.
I was raised in an area which had almost no Lutherans so it was not a major player there. In the midwest, in states like Pennsylvania, and elsewhere it is a major player, the third largest Protestant grouping in the US after Baptists and Methodists. It is rare to find Lutherans in northern New England and throughout parts of the South. Where Germans and Scandinavians settles, that's where Lutherans are.
You will, however, find Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians and various other churches full of people who may have been other Protestants elsewhere. This would apply to some Baptists (ABC) and Disciples of Christ, too. They tend to look upon one another as part of the same family. Episcopalian focus on prayerbook liturgy with its special appeal, making them a bit more like Lutherans in that Episcopalians are travel a distance to seek out an Episcopal Church when they move.
I'm speaking from rather widespread experience and not from studies which could possibly contradict some of this. In this area (northeast) many Catholics have become Protestants, and even many more have become essentially cafeteria Catholics who attend Easter and Christmas. Others have become simply unchurched now. Mainline Protestantism has suffered considerable leakage, also. Evangelical Protestantism seems to be the one group that has grown, picking up from both Catholicism and mainline Protestantism. I respect all faiths myself, but worry that evangelical Protestantism is based more upon narrow dogma and raw emotion than deep and educated spirituality. On the other hand, 'different strokes for different folks'. I'll let God do whatever judging needs to be done., My own guess is that in heaven all religious faiths will be well-represented. Love of God and love of one another - and lives lived accordingly - is the crux of the gospel and not dogmas and church affiliation.
God bless those of every creed, color, culture and country. Let us work to make religion a bridge and not a barrier.I disagree, but in any event, if a person changed for “marriage” or “authority” reasons, those can be “doctrinal” reasons as well.
This is an interesting statement given that I often hear the response from protestants on this board that Catholics need to stop treating protestants as if they are all alike. It seems that you are saying there is some legitimacy to viewing Protestantism as one large sect as opposed to several mini-sects.
You probably hear it most from Lutherans and Anglicans, where doctrine and liturgy are central.
I’m not really sure what your saying here… Both people have conflicting ideas… So you should weigh each carefully and make the best decision you can. I just didn’t want anyone to make a decision without hearing the BEST of both sides. Catholics often play the relativism card and it drives me nuts.