If push comes to shove I choose conscience over Church teaching

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If I were married to a Jew? A lie is a lie.

It is true that I would do everything in my power to save her; but I cannot call a sin not a sin because I’m forced to protect her by lying.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a sin lol IM just saying that my conscience wouldn’t allow me to let my spouse be killed.
 
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jcrichton said:
When asked are there Jews in the house and the answer is no; that’s an omission; yet, even if outright lie a lie is a lie.
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When asked if there are Jews in the house, and you say “no” when there are, that’s a lie. Not an omission.
 
Mtdobbs said:
Could a person let their spouse be murdered, instead of misleading or lying to the Nazis? Would the Church say we must tell the truth?
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You continue to miss the point. A lie is a lie (sin a sin); what are we supposed to do with sin?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I’m not missing the point. I’m not saying it isn’t a sin. I’m just saying that some peoples well formed consciences would allow them to lie, and under those circumstances, I could imagine the culpability would be nil lol
 
Mtdobbs said:
I would argue that is more right and just to steal food to save somebody, Ergo, my conscience could possibly be clean?
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But it would not be clean if you insisted that you did not commit a sin because your conscience dictated that you were morally right.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Mtdobbs said:
Could a person let their spouse be murdered, instead of misleading or lying to the Nazis? Would the Church say we must tell the truth?
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Clever misleading that is not lying, fine. Not telling the Nazis where your spouse is, fine. Lying, no.

Though culpability is definitely diminished. I probably wouldn’t be smart enough to answer on the spot without lying.
 
una_ecclesia said:
Read the Catechism on the universal destination of goods. Read Aquinas. You are not contending with me here, you are contending with them.
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So you are saying that they are stating that sin is not a sin?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Exactly!

Knowing that God Call the husband to give his life for his wife, a Catholic husband must do everything in his power to protect the wife (family).

Yet, the issue is whether a sin is absolved by the circumstances around which the sin is committed.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I just have an issue with the idea that if the a Nazi came into your house to kill Jews, that you would be outside of your moral right to lie, but inside of your moral right to potentially murder the Nazi to save the Jewish person.

My conscience would struggle with this idea.
 
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I cannot account for the sin of others.

Do you confess your neighbor’s sin/s?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Under such extreme circumstances the culpability may well be non-existent; yet, we are not to engage sin from the perspective of nil or we may fall under the fallacy that we are indeed inculpable because we have not sinned.

The remedy is to Confess even that which we may believe that our conscience is dictating as inculpable sin.

Pride is a sin that we often fall into when we attempt to apply “freedom of conscience” as it turns to freedom to sin.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Personally I struggle with this too.
If the point of not lying is just for its own sake (ie:lying in itself is always wrong) then doesn’t this lead to like a fundamentalist mentality or even potentially neurosises with people playing “word games” to avoid telling a lie?

To me it would make more sense that lying should be wrong when or because it hurts someone or will affect them negatively.
Eg:a real estate agent who lied or withheld the truth to a potential house buyer that the place needed repairs and then “sealed the deal” while withholding that there were some repair issues.
That to me would be wrong because it would affect the person who bought the house negatively and under false premises.

I lie though sometimes about things that don’t affect negatively/hurt others though.
For example,when my elderly mother gives me a top or dress etc of hers and she will ask if I like it.
Sometimes I will lie and say yes,when it may not really be my style,because I know how much it means to her,I feel greatful that she cares about me,I know that she’s always liked fashion and wants to pass on something that means a lot to her/that she likes to me as her daughter,and I know that she isn’t the type of person that you can say to “thanks for thinking of me,but it’s not my style”.
Her feelings would be hurt,so is it really such a sin if I lie this way?
 
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