If RC and Orthodox follow the same apostolic tradition

Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree with you there- that there are truly more similarities than differences. Now if only we could convince everyone else of this! The only reason I’m not Catholic right now is because I’m not entirely convinced about the role of the Pope. I do hope true reunion occurs soon though. It would take a miracle- but God can do it in spite of any of us.
 
Many of these “differences” are on par with Eastern Catholic practice.

ZP
 
adf417 said:
I keep hearing much different, both hear on CAF and in real life.
Click to expand...
Jurisdictional disputes, even when communion is broken, do not rise to the level of impacting our shared faith. The status of my church, the OCA, is in dispute; not all churches recognize us as autocephalous, but ALL churches recognize we are Orthodox and are able to commune in our churches. I realize this probably doesn’t make sense to the Catholic way of understanding hierarchy and jurisdiction, but messy as it can be at times, it’s worked for us for 2000 years.
 
I appreciate that @ziapueblo already provided a succinct response. I would reiterate my statement that the understanding of papal supremacy is the main or really only issue at question. With the exception of liturgical anomalies and puppet masses, all these “differences” were in place when our churches were in communion.
 
Actually I disagree that it’s a completely foreign concept to Catholics… it just seems like it is on the surface.

A couple examples…
Catholics can commune at SSPX Masses and even receive absolution from their priests, yet their priests are not recognized as priests in canonical good standing by Rome.
Orthodox Christians may, under fairly broad circumstances, commune in Catholic churches.

I know it’s not the same, but we obviously do see degrees of communion and unity.
 
I think those are fair points - thank you!

I was intending to speak more to the idea of unity without a head (i.e. the Pope), but regardless you make a good point with these less not so black and white examples.
 
It started with two hotheads who were acting like small children rather than leaders of the Church.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Oriental Orthodox don’t accept our definition of very same Christology, but we accept theirs- that is why they are in schism from their own choice
Click to expand...
Well, pope Paul VI and Shenouda did sign an agrement, right? So you are not correct
 
Yes, but they schismed in denial of Chalcedon. There was no anathema to their beliefs afaik.

Right now we understand that to have been caused by language barriers. Our Christology is the same. Step toward unity I hope.
 
Last edited:
Isaac14 said:
Jurisdictional disputes, even when communion is broken, do not rise to the level of impacting our shared faith.
Click to expand...
Forgive me, but I do not follow. Did not those Churches anathemize each other? If they are not in communion (formally), are they still in … communion (of faith, or how to call it) ? Their unity is not perfect, or rather their union (or union of entire Church then) is not perfect. If I understand correctly, to anathemize something/someone is to exclude them from Church (and her communion). Does anathema basically do nothing or does it actually have effect? If it does nothing in this case, I don’t think anathemas matter (ones endorsed by Ecumenical Councils would not hold any power either), but if it excludes someone from Church then Church is no longer united with individuals/groups. What is even Orthodox stance on all of this? Sorry if this seems offensive, I just sincerely do not understand, even from Eastern perspective it seems weird.
 
Hey again buddy, I finally got time for this
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I can’t find much about Western Orthodox, unlucky. They are however great example of how Orthodox Church uses unleavened bread too 🙂 so I did not delete them.

I am also not sure if in Panachida service, something similar to indulgences is not included- I might be wrong though.
 
Last edited:
Apologies- either Ukrainian Schism of ROCOR and EP or Antioch-Jerusalem disputes over jurisdiction.

edit: Not ROCOR, just Russian Orthodox Church, I messed up.
 
Last edited:
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Apologies- either Ukrainian Schism of ROCOR and EP or Antioch-Jerusalem disputes over jurisdiction.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok. No anathemas have been issued to my knowledge so I thought maybe you were talking about Oriental vs Eastern Orthodox. Although an autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church, ROCOR is not directly involved in the situation in Ukraine. Do you have a source for the claim that anathemas have been issued? As I understand it, anathemas are only declaring someone/something as outside the faith.

Temporarily breaking communion, as has been done in these cases, is meant to get the other parties (and other Orthodox churches’) attention so that the issue at hand can be addressed. This is not uncommon throughout history. Our shared faith allows us to come back together.
 
oops, my apologies, meant Russian Orthodox Church, not ROCOR… don’t understand how I messed that one up.

I mostly meant breaking Eucharistic communion, which is what I believe is part of what anathema does- because Church itself is Communion of Faithful, and Eucharist being prime Sacrament of Church from which Church draws it’s power and where She focuses it, I think it’s more than serious thing to break Eucharistic communion with someone. I might have perceived that as anathema, but now that I’ve read upon it, no such things were proclaimed. However, I still don’t think Church should hold power to sever itself just to get attention. Even so, attention of other Churches did not help resolve either of those issues yet, and Churches have been setting up rival parishes in each other’s jurisdictions (or at least in case of Russia and Ecumenical Patriarchate), which in itself would be act of schism in Catholic Law, probably something close to it in Eastern Orthodox one too.
 
From what I understand, the breaking of Eucharistic communion has nothing to do with a Churches canonical status. I’m on an email list from the OCA Church I occasionally attend and received an email about the sanctity of life put together by the canonical Orthodox bishops in the U.S. and the GOA bishop and Russian Orthodox bishop are both part of the group. I could be wrong and our Orthodox brothers and sisters could better answer this question.

ZP
 
AFAIK, Western Orthodox use leavened bread. Everything I’ve read about them suggests they do- they simply make it flat. There is no way they would be allowed to use unleavened bread.
ETA: Also, in a panikhida (memorial) service, it’s praying for the dead. We also do similar things like acts of charity in memory of the departed. We don’t have a concept of indulgences as you all do. However, there was a time when they had something relatively similar called absolution certificates, though that has since been done away with.
 
Last edited:
OrbisNonSufficit said:
They are however great example of how Orthodox Church uses unleavened bread
Click to expand...
I thought that Western Orthodox used leavened bread, although it is still flat and similar in appearance to that used by the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, it is similar in appearance but no, it is not unleavened.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
However, I still don’t think Church should hold power to sever itself just to get attention
Click to expand...
This is one of those differences in approaches between East & West that is difficult for the other to understand and appreciate. It’s not a matter of “just” getting attention, like a kid screaming, “look at me! Look at me!” It’s a very serious issue when communion is broken and due attention needs to be paid by all.
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Even so, attention of other Churches did not help resolve either of those issues yet
Click to expand...
It’s still a work in progress. We Orthodox don’t expect things to be solved instantly. We’d rather take time and deliberate. In the example you mention, there are indeed a lot of actions by both sides that are questionable and that will need to be worked through. Just don’t expect it to happen tomorrow. In time, our common faith will prevail and all will be restored. This has happened many times in the past and have been resolved.
 
Even though not directly involved in the Ukraine situation, ROCOR has also told their laity that they can’t commune in EP churches.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top