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Isa_Almisry
Guest
And how is Rome the yard stick of every religion? The Church florished in Jerusalem, Antioch and elsewhere before it made it to Rome.Two things:
Since Rome is the ‘Yard Stick’ of every religion in existence, how will one know WHEN it is wrong, unless one measures Rome AGAINST Rome?
Since “Rome is wrong” means Christ lied, what is the point of ANYTHING else?
As for Rome AGAINST Rome, Pope Leo agains Pope Honorius (on Monotheletism), Pope Leo III against Pope Leo IX (on reciting flioque), Pope John VIII against Pope Nicholas I (on St. Photios and others), Pope Innocent III against Pope Leo I (on the ranking of patriarchates), etc… There is plenty of data.
Christ didn’t lie, but He has been misrepresented.
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Deconi
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Deconi
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What does ANY religion profess?
See Rome for the proper view and the destiny of humanity.
Are you arguing FOR me as to Rome measuring itself? All your Papal ‘disputes’ have their conclusions…umm…IN Rome!
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VociMike
Guest
Wouldn’t it be reasonable to then ask, if that same place is wrong, where do you go?
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Uh, no.What does ANY religion profess?
See Rome for the proper view and the destiny of humanity.
Are you arguing FOR me as to Rome measuring itself? All your Papal ‘disputes’ have their conclusions…umm…IN Rome!
Leo v. Honorius: Constantinople II
Leo III v. Leo IX: Leo III posted the original Creed in Rome, Leo IX sent his legate who “excommunicated” those who would not recite filioque, in Constantinople.
John VIII v. Nicholas: Constantinople IV (880) undid Nicholas’ robber council at Constantinople (870).
Innocent III v. Leo I: Innocent did adopt in Rome what the Church did in Constantinople I and Chalcedon. Eugene affirmed it at Florence.
And lets not forget the papal dispute of the great western schism, started in Rome, went to Avignon, solved at Constance. Except for Siena, the popes later found it expedient to declass that council, and go with Vatican I instead.
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Isa_Almisry
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I wouldn’t know. We don’t have that problem.
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dessert
Guest
If Rome is wrong, where do you go?
I think Rome has never been more right!
The Catholic Church is becoming more authentic, getting it’s roots back so to speak.
Liken to an authentic recipe for a very good wine, use the best grapes and the right **real ingredients **not imitation flavorings, the real herbs the real fruit.
It is also putting it’s coat back on, and why is this because it had taken it off and had it on inside out. The Catholic church is putting it’s coat on right not inside out as persuaded, may invite all to join, no matter what. And when you put your coat back on right the stuff on the outside will fall off, because you have shook it first.
Because the new Pope, Pope Benedict XVi has shaken the coat anew and wants to go the Roman road.
I think Rome has never been more right!
The Catholic Church is becoming more authentic, getting it’s roots back so to speak.
Liken to an authentic recipe for a very good wine, use the best grapes and the right **real ingredients **not imitation flavorings, the real herbs the real fruit.
It is also putting it’s coat back on, and why is this because it had taken it off and had it on inside out. The Catholic church is putting it’s coat on right not inside out as persuaded, may invite all to join, no matter what. And when you put your coat back on right the stuff on the outside will fall off, because you have shook it first.
Because the new Pope, Pope Benedict XVi has shaken the coat anew and wants to go the Roman road.
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Hesychios
Guest
It does not follow.Rome cannot be wrong unless Christ lied!
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Deconi
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I’m waiting for the part where you say there’s a truth / conclusion, from all your citations, that is currently unknown to Rome or OUTSIDE of Rome. (Rome you understand means The Catholic Church, as the OP implies) Even Orthodox measures itself against Rome and recent progression of understanding begins to find Orthodox
wanting; contraception issues, divorce…etc.There are Popes in our history who do not have “Saint” before their monickers and with good reason. However, even with our retro-specs, we can see and understand that despite their ‘sinful nature’ (as some did have) we would not be ‘here’ but for them, as God utilizes whatever decisions they made freely to not only continue to Guide His Church, but teach us the difference between Divine and fallibility, something that sadly, Orthodox failed to grasp and ‘departed’ in schism.
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abcd
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You can read true history in the library or you can read catholic history as interpreted by the catholic church.
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Deconi
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Many make that mistake.
The Church is more concerned with illuminating what is to come!
It is the reseacher or enquirer who ‘interprets’ history and compares it to The Catholic Church because it has the history to support it.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Rome does NOT mean the Catholic Church, and the OP does NOT imply it is. I should know, I’m the OP. There’s a reason I put it in Non-Catholic Religion (sic) and not Apologetics.
No, we can and do get by without thinking of Rome. Don’t think that our conversations with you (particularly in the West), are those we have amongst ourselves (particularly in the East).
do you mean progression of doctrine? that’s your creation, not ours.and recent progression of understanding begins to find Orthodox
Contraception issues: it has been pointed out the near total lack of patristrics in HV, and the state of the Latins in following it. I won’t go on a tangent on this.
As for hypocrisy that pulses through the annulment scheme…
Go down the list of issues at the schism: the Orthodox stand on the side of the Fathers on them (addition of the filioque, banning married priests, etc.). Each of Rome’s positions were/are innovations. sorry, you wandered off the reservation.
We know the differene between the Church’s infallibility and the hierarchy and primacy. which is why we are still in the Catholic Church (and the OP means Orthodox Catholic).
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flyersfan1088
Guest
You apparently don’t follow this Father
St. Optatus of Milevis writing in 367A.D.
You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head-that is why he is also called Cephas- of all the Apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do other Apostles proceed individually on their own; and anyone who would set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner…I but ask you to recall the origins of your chair, you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of Holy Church.
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dessert
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Well the Holy Father has taken off the coat and shaken it real hard to get all the “bugs” out, the hanging on threads, the coat tails of ones hanging on with a pinky and just skipping along and not wanting to get aboard. He has put the coat back on without even a glich of noticability but when some want to jump back on they are in for a surprise because it has a new lining and the old threads have been cleaned off and he never got out of his chair once. I think I also see his hands and you know what he is wearing, boxing gloves.
And he is going to put the new wine into some new wine skins not back into the old wine skin.
And he is going to put the new wine into some new wine skins not back into the old wine skin.
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abcd
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abcd
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Actualy I find more confusion in Rome than ever. The pope says that Muslims will be saved even if they deny Christ. He says all will be saved. All you have to do is be good. the Pope says he will shorten your time in Purgatory if you go to Lourds this year.
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flyersfan1088
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Huh? What on earth are you talking about?
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Metaron
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Not one some issues; I heard that somr Orthodox are ok with contraception, and others are not. How do you get the Absolut Truth in Orthodoxy? If I’m wrong, tell me please. And I respect the Orthodox, they’re wonderfully nice and Christian people. My ex-Anglican buddy is going Orthodox.
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Metaron
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Huh???
Who on Earth told you those lies?- Status