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Nicea325
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It is not a question of God giving us the Bible, just as God gives us life everyday. More important, it is a question of HOW did God gives a one volume Bible? Through His Church and it is bishops.
If the Catholic Church did not give us the Bible, then who did?
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CopticChristian
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My friends…check this link out…all I am trying to guide you to is an avoidance of encoutnering a stumbling block in your dialogue…if you continue to use the 33,000 denomination then you are going to encounter this…and if you want to waste your time trying to figure out how to answer this it is your time…It is so much hogwash…I suggest you look at the streams of thought and abandon the 33,000 denominations so that you in effect avoid this discussion unless you like saying…well…no…there is no such thing as a Catholic Denomination…it is Protestants that have denominated…and then list the streams of thought…either way you are better off staying with streams of though…do what you like…
aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2218
I come from the Aquinas, Martial Arts school of Apologetics…as you know Aquinas knew his opponents arguments better than they did and proposed answers that incorporated their arguments…so far so good…in the Martial arts you take a strength and turn it into a weakness…imagine some well meaning Protestant that comes across this site waiting to pounce with this information…I never give them the chance to use it by avoiding the 33,000 denomination argument and then they are left with useless information in their head…and it is useless…as is most of James White’s stuff…
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adf417
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I don’t even know what OHCAC stands for. I’m just looking for more of Coptics youtube videos.
:egyptian:
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David
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I might be starting to understand Coptic.
Found this page. philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
Says there are 9000 Protestant denominations
Says this too:
From these western and smaller eastern rites the encyclopedia gets 242 “Roman Catholic denominations” (year 2000 numbers). The largest is by far the Latin-rite (commonly called “Roman Catholics” by non-Catholic Christians) with 976 million members of the 994 million total members (or 98% of the total, year 1995 numbers). However, since virtually all of these western and smaller eastern rites are in union with the Pope (I am not sure of some of them), there is actually one Catholic Church, not 242 churches or denominations.
So I guess since there is only 9000 denominations then Protestant divisions is not a problem?
Peace to all
David
Guessing OHCAC = One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Found this page. philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
Says there are 9000 Protestant denominations
Says this too:
From these western and smaller eastern rites the encyclopedia gets 242 “Roman Catholic denominations” (year 2000 numbers). The largest is by far the Latin-rite (commonly called “Roman Catholics” by non-Catholic Christians) with 976 million members of the 994 million total members (or 98% of the total, year 1995 numbers). However, since virtually all of these western and smaller eastern rites are in union with the Pope (I am not sure of some of them), there is actually one Catholic Church, not 242 churches or denominations.
So I guess since there is only 9000 denominations then Protestant divisions is not a problem?
Peace to all
David
Guessing OHCAC = One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
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CopticChristian
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Yes, OHCAC is as you have said and you see the cunundrum…getting into this cesspool dialogue puts the arument into explaing that no there are not 242 denominations…the OHCAC is not a denomination…there are 22 rites and what you come to find out is that the author says…OHCAC of the USA is one denomination and the OHCAC of Brazil is another denominatioin…do you see the idiocy of this entire web page and why it is best to avoid the numbers…go back to streams of thought, I have yet to see any Protestant challenge this notion of streams of thought because it cannot be challenged…Thoughts transmit time and this is a fact of reality…reference this CA site and the magazine that used to be called “this rock”…it used to have a section called heresy of the month…and point out that thoughts of old exist today…streams of thought…
Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
“Marginals” (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
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lucky4075
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I read over the article and I think I’m beginning to understand what Coptic is saying, but I’m still confused. I dont get it- what exactly does the word denomination mean in this context? Maybe I’m not seeing something here. In my mind there are no Catholic ‘denominations’- your church is either in communion with Rome (and thus part of the OHCAC) or its not. Plain and simple. Maybe I don’t understand the exact definition of what a denomination means here? If your church is part of the OHCAC you are receiving the fullness of Truth and teaching authority from Christ. If your not part of it, well then, your not.
And yup OHCAC= one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.
And yup OHCAC= one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.
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lucky4075
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Ohhhhhhh I apologize Coptic I didn’t see this post before my previous one. I totally agree with you now! Yes that whole denomination and the ridculousness of the definition/ how its used is just another part of the countless ways the Church can be attacked. I get what you are saying now. Thanks for the info I’ll be sure to remember this.
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onemangang
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Still a little confused? We can point that all the rites are in communion with the Pope and Magisterium.
Are each individual splits of Baptist in communion with the “Original Baptist church” or some sort of ecclesial governance like a “Baptist World Alliance”
If that is even a governing body? I don’t know?If it is, and there is a common union, then I get your point!
If they have all split from the “Original Baptist church”, and are not in communion with the original (for lack of a better term), or the governance of the Baptist World Alliance ,(If it is indeed a governance:shrug
but autonomous sects separated from common union with one another, why wouldn’t each be a denomination?I just don’t follow? If you could clarify it would be great
I don’t want to make false claims or assumptions! We get enough of that towards us, and it just smacks of stupidity!
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lucky4075
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I think thats what Coptic is getting at: Protestants will see the Church as having ‘denominations’ which is inaccurate to say the least since all of the rites are in communion with the Pope and Magesterium- making us all the OHCAC. Trying to explain that to a Protestant would be difficult if you used the word ‘denomination’ to describe the various Protestant churches.Still a little confused? We can point that all the rites are in communion with the Pope and Magisterium.
Are each individual splits of Baptist in communion with the “Original Baptist church” or some sort of ecclesial governance like a “Baptist World Alliance”
If it is, and there is a common union, then I get your point!
If they have all split from the “Original Baptist church”, and are not in communion with the original (for lack of a better term), or the governance of the Baptist World Alliance ,(If it is indeed a governance:shrug
I just don’t follow? If you could clarify it would be great
I don’t want to make false claims or assumptions! We get enough of that towards us, and it just smacks of stupidity!
Its difficult enough trying to explain to Protestants what we actually believe about the Church etc, so much of it falls on deaf ears
The typical responses I get are the whole ‘it doesnt matter where I go to church because we are all Christian and love Christ’, and ‘the Holy Spirit inspires everyone when they read the Bible, so you can interpret everything the way it needs to be.’ When I ask them to ‘prove’ these positions using Scripture alone the responses get a bit far-fetched to Catholic ears.
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onemangang
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Thanks, I get what you are saying. In light of what you are saying, I can lose the term denomination! Next time The Church gets brought up in conversation and I’m told it’s invisible consisting of many denominations, I will say," There is One Truth and there are thousands of deviations from it." “You have deviated from THE TRUTH” I’m sure that will go over wellI think thats what Coptic is getting at: Protestants will see the Church as having ‘denominations’ which is inaccurate to say the least since all of the rites are in communion with the Pope and Magesterium- making us all the OHCAC. Trying to explain that to a Protestant would be difficult if you used the word ‘denomination’ to describe the various Protestant churches.
Its difficult enough trying to explain to Protestants what we actually believe about the Church etc, so much of it falls on deaf ears
Thanks for the post!
Peace and Love in Christ
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CopticChristian
Guest
I think thats what Coptic is getting at: Protestants will see the Church as having ‘denominations’ which is inaccurate to say the least since all of the rites are in communion with the Pope and Magesterium- making us all the OHCAC. Trying to explain that to a Protestant would be difficult if you used the word ‘denomination’ to describe the various Protestant churches.
Its difficult enough trying to explain to Protestants what we actually believe about the Church etc, so much of it falls on deaf ears
- The Catholic Church is not a deomination
- Protestants denominated and have denominations
- If you pursue your dialogue with the number 30,000 denominations, some Protestant has taken that to task and includes the OHCAC in their assessment.
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Eileen_T
Guest
Has everyone read the book Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church by The Right Rev. HENRY G. GRAHAM.
Bishop Graham was brought up a Calvinist in Scotland, became a minister, but found himself irresistibly drawn to Catholicism, became a priest, and eventually became a bishop. If I remember correctly, he was not a Catholic when he wrote this.
Bishop Graham was brought up a Calvinist in Scotland, became a minister, but found himself irresistibly drawn to Catholicism, became a priest, and eventually became a bishop. If I remember correctly, he was not a Catholic when he wrote this.
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CopticChristian
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You gotta wonder with all the postings about “where we got the bible”…etc…the Protestants have a similar book out you know…and I thought the truth would set you free…
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ufamtobie
Guest
Izdaari,
So you have no problem admitting that the Catholic Church Compiled the Bible, Good.
Now tell me, why would Jesus Christ give the Grace to the only existing Christian Church to compile the Bible for us and then not the Grace to guide us correctly? Izadaari, You don’t make sense.
Izdaari, The Church that compiled the Bible by the power of the Holy Spirit, is the only Church that can interpret the Bible.
The Catholic Church has the only Authority to do this, no other church that came 1500 years latter can. Amen
Matt 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock** I will build my church,** and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
What does Matt16: 18 say Above? Well, Jesus Christ does not say: you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Bible So therefore it is the Church that Guides us and again it is the only Church that interpret the Bible.
Ufam Tobie
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domandcarols
Guest
That was funny. xD
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