If the church was in hiding ...

[ParkerD]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Parker Parker Parker, what is a person to do. Think what you are saying. In Corth 2:1-10 Thats all Paul talks about. That the wisdom and plan of God is revealed for the Pattern of Gods Secret hidden to others, but NOW IS REVEALED TO THE CHURCH.

Now Parker think Paul was a great scholar in Jewish faith, he admitted he didn’t see it either, Now his eyes are opened. Think Parker what happend when Paul was blind, God sent a Disciple to him to LAY HANDS ON PAUl, then his eyes were opened more ways then one. Lay of hands (like Holy Orders Parker) You can’t miss that.

But back to that scripture Pauls tells them point blank God reveals his plan to the Church. No more secrets Parker. Its all there. You have to admit that Church was the Catholic Church. Thats why it has all of the truth. The fullness of the truth. Please don’t tell me that you do not agree that Paul was part of the Catholic Church Parker. That is why all truth has to come from there. Paul just told you. If the CC does not accept it as truth its not the truth.

And if you believe the the scriptures are indeed the word of God then you must trust what Paul said. The Catholic Church has the truth revealed to it from God. The Holy Spirit is just another part of the Trinity in action Parker.

The bible tells you we do not have that Power of the Holy Spirit to define scripture. GO TO THE CHURCH it has the truth. If I am lying Parker why when it comes to sacraments etc the Catholic church is the same everywhere. It has to be Parker to be ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC. He can not be many. Only One. And there is only one teaching in the CC. No other church can say that. It is another point why it has to be the true Church.

Rinnie,
Paul is talking to the members of the church in Corinth in 1 Corinthians 2. He never implies that the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to stay with leaders of the church if they dispute doctrines. He emphasizes that man’s wisdom is not sufficient.

Sorry, but I don’t agree that Paul was a part of the Catholic Church. It is clear to me that he was not. His writings are not like the catechisms at all. I do trust what Paul said. I love his writings, though I agree with Peter that some of them were “hard to understand” for some people.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

How are Paul’s writings not like “the catechisms”?

 

[ParkerD]

1)where is that in the Bible? those whom He trusts.

1. Parker, do you believe in the Trinity doctrine?
2. do you believe that the CC is the One that compiled the Bible?
3. do you believe that the Mother of God was assumed into Heaven?
4. do you believe that Holy Mother of God appeared in various places throughout the world?

waiting your answers.

Hi, Wisdom Seeker,
Trust is implied in the relationships described in Matthew 24:45-47 and in Matthew 25:14-30. One who receives the priesthood becomes a “servant” of God but then must act in a way to be trusted, or the trust is gone and the servant relationship is gone.

1. Not quite in the same way as most Catholics, but Three Persons, One Substance, yes.
2. Not exactly, since the compiling had to begin at the time of Christ and the apostles initially, and that was done by the Jews who believed in Christ, including Luke. But priests became involved in that process, yes.
3. I certainly believe Mary went to heaven.
4. Not in the way you mean. I think people can dream a lot of things, and imagine a lot of things they want to imagine. I don’t think Mary gets involved in showing signs to people.

 

[ParkerD]

How are Paul’s writings not like “the catechisms”?

Unless a catechism quotes directly from the Bible (KJV), then I find them to be far more difficult to understand, more dogmatic, more fear-based, and less spiritually moving than the Bible, by quite a ways. But to each their own.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Unless a catechism quotes directly from the Bible (KJV), then I find them to be far more difficult to understand, more dogmatic, more fear-based, and less spiritually moving than the Bible, by quite a ways. But to each their own.

Um, a catechism is supposed to be dogmatic, it’s not supposed to be like the Bible, nor is it supposed to be spiritually moving…

I’m curious as to what you mean by “fear-based”. This is the first time I’m hearing this.

From this, I don’t think you understand what a catechism is.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,
Paul is talking to the members of the church in Corinth in 1 Corinthians 2. He never implies that the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to stay with leaders of the church if they dispute doctrines. He emphasizes that man’s wisdom is not sufficient.

Sorry, but I don’t agree that Paul was a part of the Catholic Church. It is clear to me that he was not. His writings are not like the catechisms at all. I do trust what Paul said. I love his writings, though I agree with Peter that some of them were “hard to understand” for some people.

Okay Parker now you have to back up what you say. Now you show me writing of Pauls that goes against the CCC. Thats all I ask, Fair is fair. Just one! Thanks Parker. Will be looking forward to your response.

P.S. By the way It was Jesus who said he gurarnteed to stay with the leaders of the Church not Paul. And he has been true to his word. The Church is still here and his leaders are still teaching the word just as the Apostles taught them.

 

[ParkerD]

Okay Parker now you have to back up what you say. Now you show me writing of Pauls that goes against the CCC. Thats all I ask, Fair is fair. Just one! Thanks Parker. Will be looking forward to your response.

P.S. By the way It was Jesus who said he gurarnteed to stay with the leaders of the Church not Paul. And he has been true to his word. The Church is still here and his leaders are still teaching the word just as the Apostles taught them.

Rinnie,
You are so completely kind. I think that is more important than a religion. I hope you understand how grateful I am to you for your kindness.

Romans 6:4-5 shows that Paul wrote, “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”

Those verses are clearly talking about baptism by burial in the water (immersion). That is how Christ was baptized. Paul was likening baptism to burial, and coming out of the water to “resurrection” or “newness of life.” Making the covenant of baptism by being immersed in the water (not as an infant, but as a believing person who knows what they are doing) is clearly what Paul taught.

But, Rinnie, you are such a sweet person just as you are. The Holy Spirit must be guiding you most of the time. This can happen. Timing is part of the process of growth and change that Christ offers, and the timing is His, not man’s. You are totally fine with what you and your family have, at this time in your lives. God bless you always.

 

[placido]

Placido,
Malachi was a prophet, but evidently you don’t think so.

That is not a question of not accepting Malachi as a prophet. That is a question of you and I having differing understandings of tithing. You consider tithing more as a way of asking for God’s favors, while I consider tithing as unconditional gift.

I had thought you were being sincere.

… and after reading my heart … Parker came to a conclusion that I am not sincere. Great, that was one more example of you being judgmental.

Now that you’re basically saying, “anyone who doesn’t agree with me is being judgmental”

judgmental means “making judgments, especially critical ones, about other people’s conduct”.
So, you have just judged me to be “not sincere” simply because I disagree with what you say.
I have seen you pass judgment on all who disagree with Mormonism, accusing them of not “following the Holy Spirit” or “not praying sincerely”. You claimed to have some hidden knowledge that even the Pope can’t get because you judged him not to be sincere and honest enough.

then you can make accusations and ask questions until you’re blue in the face, or whatever. Sorry–you lost my trust. Bye.

That is a long discredited cop-out trick.
BTW, I am not here looking for your trust. All I did was start a thread (in a Catholic Answers Forum) to refute the baseless and delusional believe that Christ’s Church went into hiding in the first century, only to be restored by a false prophet and fiction-writer, Joseph Smith, in June 1829.

placido

 

[placido]

Romans 6:4-5 shows that Paul wrote, “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”

Those verses are clearly talking about baptism by burial in the water (immersion). That is how Christ was baptized. Paul was likening baptism to burial, and coming out of the water to “resurrection” or “newness of life.” Making the covenant of baptism by being immersed in the water (not as an infant, but as a believing person who knows what they are doing) is clearly what Paul taught.

Rinnie, you know like I do that Parker is mistaken. We know he will have a taught time trying to prove the improbable. He won’t find and quote single official Catholic Church document showing that the CC forbids immersion and/or adult baptism. However, he is free to continue displaying his lack of understanding of catholic doctrine, discipline and practice.

placido

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Rinnie, you know like I do that Parker is mistaken. We know he will have a taught time trying to prove the improbable. He won’t find and quote single official Catholic Church document showing that the CC forbids immersion and/or adult baptism. However, he is free to continue displaying his lack of understanding of catholic doctrine, discipline and practice.

placido

True, and there’s quite a bit supporting the Catholic and Orthodox practice of baptizing infants and pouring (in addition to immersion), both Biblically and from documents in the ancient Church.

 

[fbl9]

FBL9,
I am very familiar with the Bible, and yes the Bible does agree with personal revelation, always. I am familiar with my church teachings, and they agree also. Often personal revelation is about “how can I best serve at this moment in time?” God can answer that question, if there is a “best thing to do” at that moment.

I have never felt boxed in by church teachings or by the Bible. I want what God wants for me. I am completely comfortable with His will in my life.

And i as a catholic never felt boxed in by the Church’s teaching,so you will need to rethink your stance once again.
Do you consider your beleif in the doctrine of “translated” beings personal revelation.?
Are all of your church’s founder,Joseph Smith,personal revelations found in scripture?

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

And i as a catholic never felt boxed in by the Church’s teaching,so you will need to rethink your stance once again.
Do you consider your beleif in the doctrine of “translated” beings personal revelation.?
Are all of your church’s founder,Joseph Smith,personal revelations found in scripture?

Hi fbl9,

Just to give you a hint: you should frame your question as, are all of Joseph Smith’s revelations found in the Bible? For Mormons, “scripture” not only means the Bible, but the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants. Also, remember that we all use the same words to mean different things (at times). This is why, for example, it doesn’t make sense to quote Bible verses that say that God is one to a Mormon, because they will agree! For them, God is one in will, purpose, and intent, but not also substance. So, they can say that God is One, though meaning something different that what we mean. So on that note, a typical Mormon response to your question is that yes, many of Joseph Smith’s “revelations”/“restorations” are found in the Bible, because they interpret these verses differently.

And I agree, I have never felt boxed in by our Catholic Faith. It truly is a breath of fresh air! Maybe I’ll go to St. Patrick’s this week for Vespers or Adoration…

 

[ParkerD]

And i as a catholic never felt boxed in by the Church’s teaching,so you will need to rethink your stance once again.
Do you consider your beleif in the doctrine of “translated” beings personal revelation.?
Are all of your church’s founder,Joseph Smith,personal revelations found in scripture?

I never said anything about anyone else feeling “boxed in”. I only said I didn’t feel so.
No.
No.

 

[placido]

Just a quick question for you ParkerD…How do you know if your personal revelations are from the true spirit?Do check in the bible? No reference here to translated beings. Do you check your church teachings? If so then you are being boxed in by your church.iow only believe what we tell you.

It is very simple and easy to see that Parker was deceived by an unholy spirit so much so that he believes the true faith is to be restored in the last days, while the Bible tells us the opposite: “The Spirit clearly says that in LATER TIMES some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.” (1 Timothy 4:1).
Yes, the Bible is on target: at the “later times” came the “Later-Day saints”.

placido

 

[ParkerD]

Hi, all,
I thought it would be pertinent to this thread to share a couple of articles by the following links, dealing with the subject of early church apostolic succession and the bishop of Rome:

cogwriter.com/sixtus.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

Have a pleasant day, all. This world is a fascinating place to be.

 

[rinnie]

Hi, all,
I thought it would be pertinent to this thread to share a couple of articles by the following links, dealing with the subject of early church apostolic succession and the bishop of Rome:

cogwriter.com/sixtus.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

Have a pleasant day, all. This world is a fascinating place to be.

Hi parker As much as I disagree with you on your views of my faith, I must also say that you are following the RCC teaching in many many ways. And that is by your patience and kindness towards others. You are a great example in Gods plan in loving your brother etc.

As we both know everyone can and will write many things about the RCC. But like Jesus said my People will know me. God left us the Church and it is still here after 2000 years. That in itself should show everyone something. It has to be the Church that Jesus left for us because of History, SS, oral teachings. BUt the real reason is it has all of the sacraments. Jesus left them as outward signs so we can know for sure. And we have everyone.

THere are many things that JS taught that go against the teachings of the bible. I really believe that you cannot see that at this time. BUt I also know that in time you will see it. I pray that God can reveal it to you because of 2 sacraments for sure. Confession. and Communion. Only because these 2 Sacraments give so so much extra grace in Peoples lives.

Communion is like that great meal you get certain time’s of the year (thanksgiving, Christmas, but it is food for your soul. And you can receive it everyday.

Confession is getting rid of the clutter. Since I take it you are a guy it would be how you would feel after cleaning out your garage and getting out all of the clutter. You dread doing it but afterwards you feel so wonderful.

I know you have a good heart Parker and hope someday I can say to you. Welcome Home to Rome. But I have also learned its in Gods time not mine. (I do have a problem with that When I meet him we will have to discuss this) But I know he works in ways that only he understands. So you take care, and please keep studying our faith. Even if you disagree with it, Just keep checking it out. More people have become Catholic trying to tear down the Church then defending it. Look at Paul he is the greatest example. God’s plan is in action everyday. I can see that. God Bless you and keep you and I hope you learned those verses you were supposed to study Take care Parker.

 

[ParkerD]

Hi parker As much as I disagree with you on your views of my faith, I must also say that you are following the RCC teaching in many many ways. And that is by your patience and kindness towards others. You are a great example in Gods plan in loving your brother etc.

As we both know everyone can and will write many things about the RCC. But like Jesus said my People will know me. God left us the Church and it is still here after 2000 years. That in itself should show everyone something. It has to be the Church that Jesus left for us because of History, SS, oral teachings. BUt the real reason is it has all of the sacraments. Jesus left them as outward signs so we can know for sure. And we have everyone.

THere are many things that JS taught that go against the teachings of the bible. I really believe that you cannot see that at this time. BUt I also know that in time you will see it. I pray that God can reveal it to you because of 2 sacraments for sure. Confession. and Communion. Only because these 2 Sacraments give so so much extra grace in Peoples lives.

Communion is like that great meal you get certain time’s of the year (thanksgiving, Christmas, but it is food for your soul. And you can receive it everyday.

Confession is getting rid of the clutter. Since I take it you are a guy it would be how you would feel after cleaning out your garage and getting out all of the clutter. You dread doing it but afterwards you feel so wonderful.

I know you have a good heart Parker and hope someday I can say to you. Welcome Home to Rome. But I have also learned its in Gods time not mine. (I do have a problem with that When I meet him we will have to discuss this) But I know he works in ways that only he understands. So you take care, and please keep studying our faith. Even if you disagree with it, Just keep checking it out. More people have become Catholic trying to tear down the Church then defending it. Look at Paul he is the greatest example. God’s plan is in action everyday. I can see that. God Bless you and keep you and I hope you learned those verses you were supposed to study Take care Parker.

Rinnie,
Thanks again for your kindness and kind wishes. I appreciate that. I do have communion (using bread and water, which my sons have authority to administer to the congregation) and confession (to God, who certainly hears them with all the love He offers) in my life, and am extremely grateful for both.

I am supposing you noticed I had responded to your last question with the example about baptism by immersion as taught by Paul. I am supposing you also are aware that Paul taught that a bishop should be “the husband of one wife…” (1 Timothy 3:2)

It sounds to me like your dad would have made a great bishop! Maybe he is preparing to be one now, in the spirit world, and is helping many people come unto Christ. He must be a wonderful person, to have such a kind daughter as you.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie,
Thanks again for your kindness and kind wishes. I appreciate that. I do have communion (using bread and water, which my sons have authority to administer to the congregation) and confession (to God, who certainly hears them with all the love He offers) in my life, and am extremely grateful for both.

I am supposing you noticed I had responded to your last question with the example about baptism by immersion as taught by Paul. I am supposing you also are aware that Paul taught that a bishop should be “the husband of one wife…” (1 Timothy 3:2)

It sounds to me like your dad would have made a great bishop! Maybe he is preparing to be one now, in the spirit world, and is helping many people come unto Christ. He must be a wonderful person, to have such a kind daughter as you.

No Parker trust me never a bishop for Papa. It would for sure be Pope My right hand Parker my Dad looked exactly like John Paul 11. Believe it or not his last name started WOJ and his family came from the same town in Poland as the Pope. He Dad and Mom indeed came from the Ole Country and it is possible there could have been distant blood there.

But all kidding aside Parker again The Pope and Bishops are united in Marriage. To Christ. THey choose to serve him and him only. That is what Holy Orders is, they give up the sacrament of Marriage for the sacrament of Holy Orders. Ironically the same as Paul also did. Only because Parker this is the Order God called them to. THey heard his voice and they accepted the call.

All that scripture is saying that not only Bishops we all must conduct ourself in a way that is pleasing to God. I think you may be under the impression that all Catholic’s cannot marry. That is not true Parker its just what order God calls you to. Roman Catholic Priest’s are called as Paul to not marry. But that is just a discipline Parker. Look how it also says Wives must also be a good example.

 

[rinnie]

Also Parker I forgot. Baptism, You have to remember what John said it is just not about the water. Remember when John was there and said I baptise with water but here is one comming who I am not fit to even strap his sandles. And low and behold Parker who came around the Corner Jesus CHrist.

And John was like wow, You want Me to Baptise you, I am not fit. Because I only use water but you have the Power the power Parker was the HS. And what did Jesus say, at that moment Paker he said let it be done.

And what happend after that Parker was the most beautiful thing ever written in the bible. When John poured the water over Jesus and he came up the DOVE came down. THat was the Power Parker the HS. And God spoke and said this is my Son, I am very very proud of him. ANd that is when the heavens were opened and Baptism as we know it became what it is today. That is why John said I only baptise in water but one will come who Baptises in the Spirit.

That is what Baptism is to us Parker. Not water but it is the Power of the Holy Spirit that enters our soul. Pretty cool stuff Huh!

ANd thats the Trinity in action Parker. The Father working through the Son and the entering of the HOLY SPIRIT. One Bread, One Body, One God, One Church. One faith.

That is why we believe that there is ONE GOD who revealed himself in 3 persons. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is why you cannot come to the Father without going through the Son. Because they are all one in being! Pretty cool huh!

Hey gotta roll bud it’s my 28th aniversary today. How did I make it to 28 years.

2 ways Parker.

1. The grace of God.
2. Neither one of us wanted custody of the kids

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Interestingly, if we look further down in 1 Timothy 3, using the same interpretation that Parker is using here, deacons are supposed to be the husbands of one wife as well. Yet deacons (non-convert) in the LDS church are generally 12-13 year old boys.