If the Eucharist is truly Jesus

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Scripture never says that all, or even most, of those who sought healing either from Our Lord or Peter were in fact healed, only that it happened sometimes. And Our Lord point blank refused on at least a few occasions to perform miracles - for example for Herod.

Remember Christ’s words to Thomas about the importance of being willing to believe without seeing? And his emphasis on forgiving the paralytic’s sins above and beyond the physical healing he did, which only came afterwards?
Acts5:16; The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

It says ALL healed. Not some, or most.

Matthew 12:15 also says that Jesus healed ALL that were ill…
 
Acts5:16; The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

It says ALL healed. Not some, or most.

Matthew 12:15 also says that Jesus healed ALL that were ill…
Like ALL of Judea went out to see John the Baptist preach (matt 3:5)? To a man woman and child with absolutely no exceptions? No guards stayed at their posts at city gates or borders? No sick people stayed in their beds? No unbelievers decided not to give him the time of day?

Like ALL have sinned - except that Jesus and Mary very clearly did not?

If Jesus literally healed ALL that were ill then why did sick people keep coming to see Him afterwards? Surely a literalistic interpretation of ‘all’ means even the sick ones who were not physically present were also cured.
 
Whilst Jesus did heal people it was for the glory of God. Jesus didn’t heal everybody, he made saint Paul suffer for example.
 
Like ALL of Judea went out to see John the Baptist preach (matt 3:5)? To a man woman and child with absolutely no exceptions? No guards stayed at their posts at city gates or borders? No sick people stayed in their beds? No unbelievers decided not to give him the time of day?

Like ALL have sinned - except that Jesus and Mary very clearly did not?

If Jesus literally healed ALL that were ill then why did sick people keep coming to see Him afterwards? Surely a literalistic interpretation of ‘all’ means even the sick ones who were not physically present were also cured.
Matthew 12:15 Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. A large crowd followed him, and he healed all who were ill.

No, this means that from the large crowd that followed him, he healed ALL who were ill, of the crowd.

Acts 5:12-16…ALL the sick that were brought, were healed…

Easy to understand that…
 
I understand that Jesus did not heal everybody. I never intended for anybody to think I thought that Jesus should heal every single person on planet Earth.

I did mean that faithful people, who have tremendous faith and belief in him, who come to him for healing, and do not receive anything but death, why is it?

I understand that Jesus never said anybody would be healed when receiving the Eucharist…

For years all faithful Catholics said “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the words and I shall be healed”

I am guessing they realized that no one was being healed so that had to say “my SOUL shall be healed” because who can argue with that?
 
I understand that Jesus did not heal everybody. I never intended for anybody to think I thought that Jesus should heal every single person on planet Earth.

I did mean that faithful people, who have tremendous faith and belief in him, who come to him for healing, and do not receive anything but death, why is it?
They received eternal life. They will receive BODILY resurrection and physical existence for all eternity. They received and will receive the polar opposite of death, in fact, even if at the time they were or are not healed of physical ailments. If that’s not good enough for you but you must have your rewards and signs and wonders on earth as well, then you are no better than Herod.
I understand that Jesus never said anybody would be healed when receiving the Eucharist…
For years all faithful Catholics said “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the words and I shall be healed”
I am guessing they realized that no one was being healed so that had to say “my SOUL shall be healed” because who can argue with that?
Jesus never said that everyone would be physically healed full stop. Anyone who reads ‘I shall be healed’ and thinks it means physical healing for all who ask is under a serious delusion. And, frankly, is treating God like a vending machine as I said earlier.
 
The point here is this. Touching Jesus with faith healed her. The same people do when they go to Mass and touch the Lord begging for his healing.
Yes but my point is that Jesus touched countless people in His lifetime who wanted to be healed and most were not but we are told about the ones who were healed. Touching Jesus or the Eucharist with faith and wanting to be healed doesn’t always bring about a healing. Plus what about the one who’s ear got cut off when they came to arrest Jesus and He healed his ear, that man wasn’t a believer before that moment, he came to arrest Jesus. 🤷 There’s more involved in who God chooses to heal other than just touching Jesus or the Eucharist and having faith. 🤷 Sometimes Jesus also healed with just His word, like the one who asked Jesus to heal his sick child at home and Jesus told him his son would live and when the man got home his son was healed. No touching was involved there, He didn’t even see him let alone touch him but he was healed by His word. With your reasoning, everyone who reads God’s word and believes should have a miracle but that’s not true either, it doesn’t work like that. Some can be healed by just reading the Bible but most are not. 🤷
 
Alright so here’s my miraculous story of the Eurachist and the forth quarter. I’m a practicing Jew, but this miracle I will keep with me always.
Around two years ago I just started learning about the Catholic church. What I already knew was when to sit and when to stand in church, about the Eucharist and going to confession before you receive, and most of the holidays. What I didn’t know yet, were the little things that happen on the side, like, that there’re also consecrated hosts kept in the tabernacle. Back then I thought that Jesus was in there kinda like G0d used to dwell in the Temple - but I didn’t know that there were consecrated hosts in there until after mass when I addressed the Priest - wait for it lol 😃

At that night the church was extraordinarily crowded, and I was sitting on the right side in church somewhat in the middle of the pews at the end of my pew so that I could look when the host would change during the consecration. So, that night our Priest who also used to be my confessor and Dean of our city, said the Eucharistic prayer and he broke the host two times. There were two extraordinary ministers standing up there next to the altar next to him. They took communion. However, one of the ministers then brought another bowl with hosts from behind and mingled those hosts with the hosts there were already consecrated. Then they took the entire mix of (what I thought were) consecrated and non-consecrated hosts and filled three bowls with them for three lines of people receiving either Jesus or a piece of bread. Not knowing that those hosts had of course also been consecrated at an earlier time, I thought to myself:
“What a bummer! Now this idiot comes and mingles other hosts that weren’t on the altar with the consecrated hosts. How are we to differ which host is consecrated and which isn’t since they all look the same? Now I don’t know if I receive Jesus or just a piece of bread!”

So I was lining up at my pew to receive the Eucharist thinking that I wouldn’t even know what I would receive at the end of the line. I was so disappointed that I was almost about to cry in that line. I was so looking forward to go to mass and now this. And what happened then I will never forget. I kneeled down, closed my eyes, and when the Priest said “The body of Christ!” I looked up and I saw… a piece of a host that was angular. I immediately realized it was the forth quarter of the host that the Priest had broken during the consecration on the altar. I saw this piece and I knew it was him. Receieving that angular and forth piece of the host that the Priest had broken was the only means G0d had available at that time to make me trust that I would receive Jesus, since it had a different form than the other round hosts that couldn’t be trusted.

Now, if you’re good at statistics you can estimate how great the chances were that I out of all people received that one piece of the consecrated host that was left over in the bowl from which my Priest distributed the Eucharist.

Of course - after mass this problem had to be addressed 😃
So I waited for the Priest who out of all people used to be our Dian that night, to leave the sacristry. And I told him: “Excuse me, father, but this can’t be. Tonight I was lucky, but the others don’t know wheather they receive Jesus or just a piece of bread if you mingle hosts after the consecration. You should mingle them before you consecrate the hosts!”
He was totally shocked and immediately explained to me that those hosts came from the tabernacle and that nothing that wasn’t consecrated would ever see a tabernacle from the inside. “Makes sense” I thought to myself. I then apologized to him, and he never begrudged me, but rather helped me learn more about the church.
 
Alright so here’s my miraculous story of the Eurachist and the forth quarter. I’m a practicing Jew, but this miracle I will keep with me always.
Around two years ago I just started learning about the Catholic church. What I already knew was when to sit and when to stand in church, about the Eucharist and going to confession before you receive, and most of the holidays. What I didn’t know yet, were the little things that happen on the side, like, that there’re also consecrated hosts kept in the tabernacle. Back then I thought that Jesus was in there kinda like G0d used to dwell in the Temple - but I didn’t know that there were consecrated hosts in there until after mass when I addressed the Priest - wait for it lol 😃

At that night the church was extraordinarily crowded, and I was sitting on the right side in church somewhat in the middle of the pews at the end of my pew so that I could look when the host would change during the consecration. So, that night our Priest who also used to be my confessor and Dean of our city, said the Eucharistic prayer and he broke the host two times. There were two extraordinary ministers standing up there next to the altar next to him. They took communion. However, one of the ministers then brought another bowl with hosts from behind and mingled those hosts with the hosts there were already consecrated. Then they took the entire mix of (what I thought were) consecrated and non-consecrated hosts and filled three bowls with them for three lines of people receiving either Jesus or a piece of bread. Not knowing that those hosts had of course also been consecrated at an earlier time, I thought to myself:
“What a bummer! Now this idiot comes and mingles other hosts that weren’t on the altar with the consecrated hosts. How are we to differ which host is consecrated and which isn’t since they all look the same? Now I don’t know if I receive Jesus or just a piece of bread!”

So I was lining up at my pew to receive the Eucharist thinking that I wouldn’t even know what I would receive at the end of the line. I was so disappointed that I was almost about to cry in that line. I was so looking forward to go to mass and now this. And what happened then I will never forget. I kneeled down, closed my eyes, and when the Priest said “The body of Christ!” I looked up and I saw… a piece of a host that was angular. I immediately realized it was the forth quarter of the host that the Priest had broken during the consecration on the altar. I saw this piece and I knew it was him. Receieving that angular and forth piece of the host that the Priest had broken was the only means G0d had available at that time to make me trust that I would receive Jesus, since it had a different form than the other round hosts that couldn’t be trusted.

Now, if you’re good at statistics you can estimate how great the chances were that I out of all people received that one piece of the consecrated host that was left over in the bowl from which my Priest distributed the Eucharist.

Of course - after mass this problem had to be addressed 😃
So I waited for the Priest who out of all people used to be our Dian that night, to leave the sacristry. And I told him: “Excuse me, father, but this can’t be. Tonight I was lucky, but the others don’t know wheather they receive Jesus or just a piece of bread if you mingle hosts after the consecration. You should mingle them before you consecrate the hosts!”
He was totally shocked and immediately explained to me that those hosts came from the tabernacle and that nothing that wasn’t consecrated would ever see a tabernacle from the inside. “Makes sense” I thought to myself. I then apologized to him, and he never begrudged me, but rather helped me learn more about the church.
May I ask why you are now Jewish if you believe you received the body of Christ? I guess I don’t quite understand how that works.
 
May I ask why you are now Jewish if you believe you received the body of Christ? I guess I don’t quite understand how that works.
The question as to why G0d wanted me to believe back then that I truly received Jesus is indeed the very and only question that is left open. One day I will receive the answer though. Since back then so many things have happened and changed that I don’t want to get into, and today I wouldn’t even enter a church anymore. G0d could have led me directly to the Synagogue, but he didn’t. Instead I went through almost two years of church first. Why this is so I don’t know. I’m a Jew and not a Christian. The church was never meant for me. I can, however, understand Christians. Something that perhaps not many Jews can say about themselves without having had a lot of experience with Christians.
 
I understand that Jesus did not heal everybody. I never intended for anybody to think I thought that Jesus should heal every single person on planet Earth.

I did mean that faithful people, who have tremendous faith and belief in him, who come to him for healing, and do not receive anything but death, why is it?
They do not receive death, but everlasting life. You’re focusing too much on temporal blessings, friend. To receive eternal life is to receive the wiping-away of every tear at the end of time, and the healing of every infirmity. Do you believe that the pain of these 70-80 years on Earth will be anything compared to the Glory that is to be revealed in Eternity?
For years all faithful Catholics said “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the words and I shall be healed”
I am guessing they realized that no one was being healed so that had to say “my SOUL shall be healed” because who can argue with that?
“I shall be healed” and “my soul shall be healed” are equivalent. The soul is the deepest personal essence of a person. We are body as well as soul, yes, but the healing we seek for is spiritual first. Those who are spiritually healed do not count physical infirmities as anything worth complaining about.

There are a few key texts here; the Samaritan Woman at the well, and St. Paul:

*John 4:13-14 Whoever drinks this water will be thirsty again; but no one who drinks the water that I shall give will ever be thirsty again: the water that I shall give will become a spring of water within, welling up for eternal life. *

That woman misunderstood Jesus’ promise of water, thinking it was physical. He promises heavenly water to slake the soul forever. With one or two strict exceptions (Malchus), Christ’s healing miracles were done for a limited time - notice that they cease half-way through each of the Gospels. They were done only that His name would spread abroad and many would come to seek His teaching, doctrine, and authority. Once that was accomplished, He began to speak of taking up crosses daily (how could that be so if He promised immediate healing to all the faithful?).

*Acts 9:15-16 ‘Go, Ananias, for this man is my chosen instrument to bring my name before gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel; I myself will show him how much he must suffer for my name.’ *

Note that St. Paul specifically existed to suffer for Christ’s glory. This is a common occurrence, after the narrative of Acts switches from Peter to Paul. We all exist in this imperfect world. Don’t be tempted to look for material blessings firstly or primarily, for that road leads to faithlessness, which leads to Hell.
 
They received eternal life. They will receive BODILY resurrection and physical existence for all eternity. They received and will receive the polar opposite of death, in fact, even if at the time they were or are not healed of physical ailments. If that’s not good enough for you but you must have your rewards and signs and wonders on earth as well, then you are no better than Herod.
No reason to compare me with a child murderer for simply asking questions, that is kind of drastic.
Jesus never said that everyone would be physically healed full stop. Anyone who reads ‘I shall be healed’ and thinks it means physical healing for all who ask is under a serious delusion. And, frankly, is treating God like a vending machine as I said earlier.
I would think that anyone who reads or says “I shall be healed” would be expecting some sort of healing, yes. That doesn’t make me deluded, at all.
 
They do not receive death, but everlasting life. You’re focusing too much on temporal blessings, friend. To receive eternal life is to receive the wiping-away of every tear at the end of time, and the healing of every infirmity. Do you believe that the pain of these 70-80 years on Earth will be anything compared to the Glory that is to be revealed in Eternity?
I probably do focus to much on the temporal. I try to remind myself that Jesus kept repeating his kingdom was not of this world, but I read the Bible a lot and the things I read just are not matching up if everything is to be taken as meaning ‘after death’…
“I shall be healed” and “my soul shall be healed” are equivalent. The soul is the deepest personal essence of a person. We are body as well as soul, yes, but the healing we seek for is spiritual first. Those who are spiritually healed do not count physical infirmities as anything worth complaining about.
I would not think those two sayings were equivalent, because if I am dying of cancer I would take healing my body quite differently than forgiving my sins or healing my soul.
There are a few key texts here; the Samaritan Woman at the well, and St. Paul:
*John 4:13-14 Whoever drinks this water will be thirsty again; but no one who drinks the water that I shall give will ever be thirsty again: the water that I shall give will become a spring of water within, welling up for eternal life. *
That woman misunderstood Jesus’ promise of water, thinking it was physical. He promises heavenly water to slake the soul forever. With one or two strict exceptions (Malchus), Christ’s healing miracles were done for a limited time - notice that they cease half-way through each of the Gospels. They were done only that His name would spread abroad and many would come to seek His teaching, doctrine, and authority. Once that was accomplished, He began to speak of taking up crosses daily (how could that be so if He promised immediate healing to all the faithful?).
*Acts 9:15-16 ‘Go, Ananias, for this man is my chosen instrument to bring my name before gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel; I myself will show him how much he must suffer for my name.’ *
Note that St. Paul specifically existed to suffer for Christ’s glory. This is a common occurrence, after the narrative of Acts switches from Peter to Paul. We all exist in this imperfect world. Don’t be tempted to look for material blessings firstly or primarily, for that road leads to faithlessness, which leads to Hell.
Point made.
 
No reason to compare me with a child murderer for simply asking questions, that is kind of drastic.
You’re thinking of the wrong Herod, my friend. The baby-killer died when Jesus was young, enabling the Holy Family’s return from Egypt. It was the son of that Herod, also named Herod, who wanted to see a miracle when the adult Jesus was brought before him. Jesus of course did not oblige. Sorry for any confusion.
I would think that anyone who reads or says “I shall be healed” would be expecting some sort of healing, yes. That doesn’t make me deluded, at all.
Jesus many times emphasised the necessity of suffering - of taking up one’s cross, drinking one’s cup and so on. Very pointedly when Peter tells Him not to go to Jerusalem to suffer and die. Most pointedly of all when He accepts His own Passion as the Father’s will.

This is all totally inconsistent with the idea of universal earthly healing of physical ills, just as it was with the idea of the Messiah as a military hero who would chuck out the Romans from
Israel and usher in earthly peace. Both were notions that Jesus had to disabuse people of from time to time.

Perhaps ‘deluded’ was too strong a term, but I think there is plenty in Scripture to disabuse people of the idea that Christ came to bring universal physical healing.
 
No one has influenced my thinking. Just from living, watching and learning.
Just saying that because the purpose of the Eucharist has never been to physically heal people. Neither did Christ come for that reason.
 
The question as to why G0d wanted me to believe back then that I truly received Jesus is indeed the very and only question that is left open. One day I will receive the answer though. Since back then so many things have happened and changed that I don’t want to get into, and today I wouldn’t even enter a church anymore. G0d could have led me directly to the Synagogue, but he didn’t. Instead I went through almost two years of church first. Why this is so I don’t know. I’m a Jew and not a Christian. The church was never meant for me. I can, however, understand Christians. Something that perhaps not many Jews can say about themselves without having had a lot of experience with Christians.
I, too, am confused.

How is it that you received the Eucharist when you only “just started learning about the Catholic church”? :confused:
 
You’re thinking of the wrong Herod, my friend. The baby-killer died when Jesus was young, enabling the Holy Family’s return from Egypt. It was the son of that Herod, also named Herod, who wanted to see a miracle when the adult Jesus was brought before him. Jesus of course did not oblige. Sorry for any confusion.
I am proud that I got the wrong Herod. 😊
Jesus many times emphasised the necessity of suffering - of taking up one’s cross, drinking one’s cup and so on. Very pointedly when Peter tells Him not to go to Jerusalem to suffer and die. Most pointedly of all when He accepts His own Passion as the Father’s will.
This is all totally inconsistent with the idea of universal earthly healing of physical ills, just as it was with the idea of the Messiah as a military hero who would chuck out the Romans from
Israel and usher in earthly peace. Both were notions that Jesus had to disabuse people of from time to time.
Perhaps ‘deluded’ was too strong a term, but I think there is plenty in Scripture to disabuse people of the idea that Christ came to bring universal physical healing.
And again, I never said that he was bringing ‘universal’ healing. I even pointed out that I knew that everybody couldn’t be healed because that would mean people would live forever, if they were healed every time they got sick. However, I said I would like to just see one person, in a wheelchair, or an amputee, grow back a leg or something…

It appears in 1 Corinthians chapter 11:30…that some people have even died for receiving unworthily…I am not exactly sure why ‘some’ die but others abuse the Eucharist and live jolly old lives…thats another concern…it appears in that verse to effect us ‘bodily’…surely if it can kill us bodily, it would be able to heal us bodily as well…
 
You and everyone is healed everytime you receive the Eucharist (hopefully in the state of grace :eek:). How do you know that people haven’t been healed when they recieve it? A perfectly healthy person may have very well been ill if it wasn’t for the Eucharist, ever thought about that? Even if you don’t see, and if they are still physically sick, their souls are still perfectly cleansed and Jesus and their souls become one perfect union. Just how the earthly food is food for our bodies; the Eucharist is food/life for the soul. Jesus said in John 6:53, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” Hope that helps and increases your faith in the Eucharist :D!!! If you have doubt in the Eucharist and think it is just bread then don’t treat it like real bread. What I mean by this is actually treat like you are receiving Jesus, BECAUSE YOU ARE, so bow to Him before you receive and then kneel down and receive Him in the mouth. You will find after doing this your faith will be increased, you will understand better! 🙂
 
You and everyone is healed everytime you receive the Eucharist (hopefully in the state of grace :eek:). How do you know that people haven’t been healed when they recieve it? A perfectly healthy person may have very well been ill if it wasn’t for the Eucharist, ever thought about that? Even if you don’t see, and if they are still physically sick, their souls are still perfectly cleansed and Jesus and their souls become one perfect union. Just how the earthly food is food for our bodies; the Eucharist is food/life for the soul. Jesus said in John 6:53, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” Hope that helps and increases your faith in the Eucharist :D!!! If you have doubt in the Eucharist and think it is just bread then don’t treat it like real bread. What I mean by this is actually treat like you are receiving Jesus, BECAUSE YOU ARE, so bow to Him before you receive and then kneel down and receive Him in the mouth. You will find after doing this your faith will be increased, you will understand better! 🙂
That’s a good point! Who knows how many people have been healed of things before any symptoms occurred and before they even knew they had it. 😉
 
Dear Hypothesis…read John 6: 53-58
The Eucharist’s most important function is to incorporate us into the mystical body of Christ.In this way we become not only a member of Jesus’ mystical body but we also become more like Christ.This is the only way a human will be risen up on the last day just as the Father rose Jesus after his death.
Now you seem to reduce the role of the Eucharist to mere physical healing.What is more important?the healing of the flesh or the healing of the soul?Most of the time after healing a person Jesus would say “Your sins are forgiven”.Why did he have to say that when the person presented with a physical illness or problem?
I pray you reconsider your position on the Eucharist and keep aside your wrong “feelings” about it and see the Eucharist for what it Truely Is.And you will need to pray alot to God and pray the rosary if you wish to be reconciled with the reality of Christ in the Eucharist.
goodluck!😉
 
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