If the SSPX where to return to Rome this week...

[saint_rafael]

Again, you are only passing off a speculation as to whether or not it occurred. As for your statement about the percentage of the world that is on its way to hell, this is an outrageous statement. Not one of us can know the hearts of others. Sure, we can judge actions and we are to follow the Church and receive the Sacraments, but not one of us has the right to make a generalized statement as to what percentage of the population is going to heaven or hell.

You are thinking like a secularist and a worldling. You better start to learn your faith.

Our Lord does not lie:

Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. "

All the saints,doctors of the Church, and the Church herself has taught this truth throughout the ages.

 

[NicPais83]

Modern Biblical exegis is condemned and come from Hell. Those who say that Genesis is a myth, that the Bible contains stories, myths, and legends.

That O.T. and N.T. are not literal. That the Gospels are not historical. The words of Jesus are not recorded in the Gospels, that Jesus was not divine, and that Jesus and the New Testament authors held errors.

None of what you have listed here is from the Second Vatican Council or from the Vatican at all.

However, we are not required to believe that creation occurred word-for-word the way it is portrayed in Genesis (see the two stories of creation), but we are required to believe that there was an initial Adam and Eve, and we inherited Original Sin from them.

In terms of what you’re talking about, the words of Jesus not being in the Gospels, Jesus not being divine, and errors, I honestly don’t know where you get that from, since Church teaching on all of that has been constant for 2000 years. You are very hasty to condemn the whole Church for errors you claim to find everywhere, but I have the impression that you have done little to actually educate yourself on the Second Vatican Council, or what the Church actually believes. Instead, you talk about what the Church has taught for 2000 years and then make statements about how it’s not taught anymore, which is itself a blatant lie. If you are truly filled with this much anger, then I must pray for you.

 

[NicPais83]

You are thinking like a secularist and a worldling. You better start to learn your faith.

Our Lord does not lie:

Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. "

All the saints,doctors of the Church, and the Church herself has taught this truth throughout the ages.

No one denies that that is what the Lord taught. But only God can know who is damned and who is not. Making statements about the percentages of people that are damned is an outright judgement that no one in the 2000 years of Catholicism has ever taught. In the Gospels, Jesus only specifies two people that are saved/damned: Judas and the good thief. You talk about valid exegesis, but do not practice what you preach as no where in this passage can we take away what numbers are being saved. What we are taught is to receive the Sacraments and believe all that Holy Mother Church teaches. You are placing yourself as a judge on men’s souls. You have no right to judge the state of my soul, or the state of anyone else’s. You do not know what is in my heart, or the nature of my relationship to God.

 

[saint_rafael]

None of what you have listed here is from the Second Vatican Council or from the Vatican at all.

However, we are not required to believe that creation occurred word-for-word the way it is portrayed in Genesis (see the two stories of creation), but we are required to believe that there was an initial Adam and Eve, and we inherited Original Sin from them.

In terms of what you’re talking about, the words of Jesus not being in the Gospels, Jesus not being divine, and errors, I honestly don’t know where you get that from, since Church teaching on all of that has been constant for 2000 years. You are very hasty to condemn the whole Church for errors you claim to find everywhere, but I have the impression that you have done little to actually educate yourself on the Second Vatican Council, or what the Church actually believes. Instead, you talk about what the Church has taught for 2000 years and then make statements about how it’s not taught anymore, which is itself a blatant lie. If you are truly filled with this much anger, then I must pray for you.

You are very naive about these problems. That kind of Biblical Exegesis has been king in the Church in the last three decades. Pope John Paul II named Raymond Brown to the Pontifical Biblical Commission. Most the bishops defend Raymond Brown.

These teachings have been taught at every level. In workshops, lectures, and from grade school to the University.

I was taught this very Exegesis by in my Catholicism class at the University by a Catholic priest who is the pastor of the Cathedral in a diocese. Of coarse I know my faith and was not fooled by that heresy.

My uncle was taught thatt Jesus dis not literally walk on water. It was a symbol or methaphor. This came from a Catholic teacher in official classes for the diocese in the diocesene offices themselves.

The word of God in the Bible has been under attack and destroyed by the Churchmen in the last decades.

 

[pnewton]

but not one of us has the right to make a generalized statement as to what percentage of the population is going to heaven or hell.

It is part of the “remnant” mentality to remain as elite as possible. Almost everybody is going to hell. Only the special ones hold fast to the “true” Catholic tradition. What rafael fails to realize is that most of us here sees through his continual begging of the question. We understand that he is interpretting what Tradition is in what he views as a more superior way that Pope Benedict understands Catholic Tradition. Like Fellay and LeFervre, since they were not discerned to be pope, they have to set themselves up above him in order to remain elite.

 

[NicPais83]

You are very naive about these problems. That kind of Biblical Exegesis has been king in the Church in the last three decades. Pope John Paul II named Raymond Brown to the Pontifical Biblical Commission. Most the bishops defend Raymond Brown.

These teachings have been taught at every level. In workshops, lectures, and from grade school to the University.

I was taught this very Exegesis by in my Catholicism class at the University by a Catholic priest who is the pastor of the Cathedral in a diocese. Of coarse I know my faith and was not fooled by that heresy.

My uncle was taught thatt Jesus dis not literally walk on water. It was a symbol or methaphor. This came from a Catholic teacher in official classes for the diocese in the diocesene offices themselves.

The word of God in the Bible has been under attack and destroyed by the Churchmen in the last decades.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_E._Brown

And you say a lot of things without any type of support to back up your claims.

In terms of whether or not you were actually taught what you say, I cannot debate that since I wasn’t there. I am sorry if that was the case, since that is just plain heresy. However, that is not the teaching of the Church now, nor was it ever. To claim that that is now official Church teaching is an innaccurate generalization born out of ignorance. I am in no way naive about the issues in the American Church today, and I spend a lot of time researching and learning what the Church teaches. You, on the other hand, do not seem to actually try and find out what the Church does teach. By the way, which University were you at, because there are a large number of heterodox universities in the US. You cannot take what you heard at one and claim it is Church teaching without discovering for yourself if it is or not.

 

[saint_rafael]

It is part of the “remnant” mentality to remain as elite as possible. Almost everybody is going to hell. Only the special ones hold fast to the “true” Catholic tradition. What rafael fails to realize is that most of us here sees through his continual begging of the question. We understand that he is interpretting what Tradition is in what he views as a more superior way that Pope Benedict understands Catholic Tradition. Like Fellay and LeFervre, since they were not discerned to be pope, they have to set themselves up above him in order to remain elite.

That the vast majority of people end up in hell is a truth taught by the Church and her saints. If people on this thread studied the writings of the saints, they would wise up and try to do everything to save their own soul.

The Magisterium of the Church is not a secret. It is available to everyone. It is the infallible teachings of the Coucils, Popes and bishops in union with the Popes.

The real problem that you people fail to acknowlede is the every Catholic and Pope can be measured up the Magisterium.

In the case of Pope Benedict, anyone can take his teachings and writings and compare them to the prior teachings of prior Popes. In most cases they agree, but in the case of the modern Popes such as Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict, some of their decisions, actions, and writngs do not agree with the Magisterium. There is a contradiction between them and the past Popes.

 

[saint_rafael]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_E._Brown

And you say a lot of things without any type of support to back up your claims.

In terms of whether or not you were actually taught what you say, I cannot debate that since I wasn’t there. I am sorry if that was the case, since that is just plain heresy. However, that is not the teaching of the Church now, nor was it ever. To claim that that is now official Church teaching is an innaccurate generalization born out of ignorance. I am in no way naive about the issues in the American Church today, and I spend a lot of time researching and learning what the Church teaches. You, on the other hand, do not seem to actually try and find out what the Church does teach. By the way, which University were you at, because there are a large number of heterodox universities in the US. You cannot take what you heard at one and claim it is Church teaching without discovering for yourself if it is or not.

I never said that this type of Biblical Exegesis is the official teaching of the Church. It is not. It is heresy.

My point is that in the last decades, many in the Church are not teaching the official Church teachings on the Bible, but are teahing these errors.
Many Catholics has been taught heresy and heterodoxy instead of the truth. Just one of many example of an apostasy from traditional Church teaching.

 

[NicPais83]

I never said that this type of Biblical Exegesis is the official teaching of the Church. It is not. It is heresy.

My point is that in the last decades, many in the Church are not teaching the official Church teachings on the Bible, but are teahing these errors.
Many Catholics has been taught heresy and heterodoxy instead of the truth. Just one of many example of an apostasy from traditional Church teaching.

Your logic does not follow in the least. You admit that this is not authentic Church teaching, and you admit that it is heresy. But this logic does not lead to the conclusion that there is an apostacy, which is Protestant theology. The logical conclusion is that people must be instructed on proper Church teaching. If Dan goes home from 2nd grade and tells his parents that he was taught that 2 + 2 = 17, that would be wrong and they would take steps to correct that. The logic doesn’t follow that this is therefore representative of a “new math.”

 

[NicPais83]

That the vast majority of people end up in hell is a truth taught by the Church and her saints. If people on this thread studied the writings of the saints, they would wise up and try to do everything to save their own soul.

The Magisterium of the Church is not a secret. It is available to everyone. It is the infallible teachings of the Coucils, Popes and bishops in union with the Popes.

The real problem that you people fail to acknowlede is the every Catholic and Pope can be measured up the Magisterium.

In the case of Pope Benedict, anyone can take his teachings and writings and compare them to the prior teachings of prior Popes. In most cases they agree, but in the case of the modern Popes such as Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict, some of their decisions, actions, and writngs do not agree with the Magisterium. There is a contradiction between them and the past Popes.

The Church does NOT teach that the vast majority of people will end up in hell. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. The Church teaches that we obtain the graces necessary for salvation through reception of the 7 Sacraments and adhering to the teachings of Holy Mother Church. The Church teaches that we should spread the faith to save souls. The Church teaches that we should not feel assured of our salvation, nor should we speculate on anyone else’s salvation, but that we should help each other live in a manner that Christ taught, namely through reception of the Sacraments, prayer, faith, and good works.

 

[saint_rafael]

Your logic does not follow in the least. You admit that this is not authentic Church teaching, and you admit that it is heresy. But this logic does not lead to the conclusion that there is an apostacy, which is Protestant theology. The logical conclusion is that people must be instructed on proper Church teaching. If Dan goes home from 2nd grade and tells his parents that he was taught that 2 + 2 = 17, that would be wrong and they would take steps to correct that. The logic doesn’t follow that this is therefore representative of a “new math.”

I said that Biblical Exegesis is just one exmple of dozens of other problems that show there is apostasy.

Here is some more examples:
The Church went from having 65,000 seminarians in this country in the 60’s to having just over 4,000 today.

about 80% of Catholics do not believe in the real presense in the Eucharist.

It is not Protestant theology. You don’t know Church history. Half of Europe apostatized and started the Protestant religion.
During the Arian heresy and apostasy, evey Catholic Bishop was Arain. Even Pope Liberius fell to the Arian heresy. St. Athanasius had the courage to hold the true faith and rescued the Church.

There can be and there has been many apostasies in the history of the Church. However, he have the promise from God that there will never be a total complete apostasy in which the gates of hell prevail.

 

[NicPais83]

I said that Biblical Exegesis is just one exmple of dozens of other problems that show there is apostasy.

Here is some more examples:
The Church went from having 65,000 seminarians in this country in the 60’s to having just over 4,000 today.

about 80% of Catholics do not believe in the real presense in the Eucharist.

It is not Protestant theology. You don’t know Church history. Half of Europe apostatized and started the Protestant religion.
During the Arian heresy and apostasy, evey Catholic Bishop was Arain. Even Pope Liberius fell to the Arian heresy. St. Athanasius had the courage to hold the true faith and rescued the Church.

There can be and there has been many apostasies in the history of the Church. However, he have the promise from God that there will never be a total complete apostasy in which the gates of hell prevail.

Once again, you throw numbers at me without any references. Do not presume that I do not know Church history as all you are doing is throwing trivia at me in order to convince me of your superiority. Again, I feel the only thing to do for you is to pray for you.

 

[saint_rafael]

The Church does NOT teach that the vast majority of people will end up in hell. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. The Church teaches that we obtain the graces necessary for salvation through reception of the 7 Sacraments and adhering to the teachings of Holy Mother Church. The Church teaches that we should spread the faith to save souls. The Church teaches that we should not feel assured of our salvation, nor should we speculate on anyone else’s salvation, but that we should help each other live in a manner that Christ taught, namely through reception of the Sacraments, prayer, faith, and good works.

How many Catholic practice their faith? Not many. Mass attendance is 23% Over 75% of Catholics do not go to Mass every Sunday. That is Mortal Sin, that leads directly to hell.

Again, you try to make Jesus out to be a liar. He was clear in Matthew 7 that few are saved. That include everyone. Catholic and non-Catholic.

I said nothing about any individual, but pointed out the truth of the saints, that most go to hell. I don’t know the percentages. No one does. We can make an estimate, but it does not matter, because those who are saved are few in number.

 

[saint_rafael]

Once again, you throw numbers at me without any references. Do not presume that I do not know Church history as all you are doing is throwing trivia at me in order to convince me of your superiority. Again, I feel the only thing to do for you is to pray for you.

These numbers are widespread and famous. All the articles and stats have said the same thing over the years. Many Catholics know these stats by memory.

Here’s some references:

unavoce.org/articles/2003/interview_with_ken_jones.htm

catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/statistics.htm

**
I never said anything about superiority. This is about truth. The modern world and modern mind rejects truth. I am trying to get Catholics to see the truth, too see reality. Catholics need to wake up and open their eyes to the reality around them about the world and Church.**

 

[rpp]

This thread is really off topic.

 

[pnewton]

This thread is really off topic.

Apologists for the SSPX often have this effect.

 

[Daniel_Benedict]

Have any of you fellow catholics read about The Warnings from Beyond. tldm.org/news4/WarningsFromBeyond.1of3.htm A group of exorcists in Switzerland by the power of heaven and The blessed Virgin were able to obtain info on Lefevre and how his motive will be the eventual outcome. If you are a traditional Catholic and havent read this yet, i reccomend you read it as soon as possible and even if you arent Catholic please look into it. St. Pio once said that people dont realize the damage their doing to their soul by depriving it of spiritual readings(not exact words)

 

[pnewton]

Have any of you fellow catholics read about The Warnings from Beyond. tldm.org/news4/WarningsFromBeyond.1of3.htm A group of exorcists in Switzerland by the power of heaven and The blessed Virgin were able to obtain info on Lefevre and how his motive will be the eventual outcome.

You might want to double check the rules if you are going to post here:

Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

 

[rpp]

Have any of you fellow catholics read about The Warnings from Beyond.

It is against forum rules to post about or discuss unapproved apparitions.

 

[Daniel_Benedict]

whoops… sorry. Well anyway, im just happy we have a very Holy Pope who has braught tradtion back. Thank you Trinity! for a visionary pope who is traditional and also has very inspirational writings. Our youth needs this kind of example and Im hoping he does invite SSPX back and am quite caertain he will.

Thanks for correcting me brothers and sisters in the One and Only True Faith. Fraternal Correction is very important.