If the SSPX where to return to Rome this week...

[CathMass]

I was wondering if the SSPX were to return this week, would that mean that I can attend Mass at an SSPX Church as though I were going to a normal church under the diocese? Do I need to wait for some ceremony of regularization where the bishop re-consecrates the building and reconciles with the priest first and the priest renounces his sin or is it just an automatic transition? I don’t want to debate, I just want a simple answer. Use of church documents would be nice if it supports your answers.

Thanks

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I’d be curious to know, myself. I don’t think anything has to happen, but I could be wrong.

One could assume it was OK and go until told otherwise. I mean, if you’re not told by somebody in authority (like your bishop, or at least your priest) that you can’t go, yet… why not?

 

[rpp]

I was wondering if the SSPX were to return this week, would that mean that I can attend Mass at an SSPX Church as though I were going to a normal church under the diocese? Do I need to wait for some ceremony of regularization where the bishop re-consecrates the building and reconciles with the priest first and the priest renounces his sin or is it just an automatic transition? I don’t want to debate, I just want a simple answer. Use of church documents would be nice if it supports your answers.

Thanks

The questions you are are good and important.

I believe that if (when) the SSPX and the Holy See are reconciled part of the announcement will be how the normalization will proceed. Your questions will be answered in the announcement.

Remember, there are some significant issues still to be addressed. SSPX priests have been suspended.

I have some questions of my own.

In what manner will the suspensions of SSPX priests be lifted? Will it require any effort on the part of local bishops?

What about priests ordained by the excommunicated bishops, are their ordinations valid? What of the ordinations of priests who were ordained by non-excommunicated bishops?

How much authority will the local ordinary have on the SSPX priests? What will be the status of SSPX chapels that dot so many diocese; will the local Ordinary have authority over these, perhaps to close them down?

Will a local ordinary have the authority to expel SSPX priests from the diocese?

What will be the status of the SSPX parishioners who were excommunicated by Bishop Bruskewitz of Nebraska in 1996?

I am certain there are many issues.

I pray that this reconciliation will occur and that all involved will approach this with both humility and gravity.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

The thing is that the priest will have to go through a process to make their ordinations licit (they are valid). This, however could probably be done by Papal decree (I am not 100% sure of that)

Secondly, they will have to be given faculties to say Mass and perform some of the other sacraments in each diocese by the Bishop. This could be a long process, if approved at all, in certain diocese.

Saying that, there is an SSPX chapel close to where I live and I have no plans to go there. My parish offers the EF Mass daily if I were to go to one.

 

[laudamus_te]

These “what if” scenarios are an exercise in futility, because it’s not going to happen.

 

[EddieArent]

The obligation of Sunday is fulfilled by assisting in a Catholic liturgy. The Traditional Liturgy of 1962 is a Catholic Rite. 2+2=4. You can attend, now.

 

[JuanCarlos]

It would be in Rome’s best interest to “immediately” declare attending the SSPX Churches are OK. If Rome says “You’re not allowed to attend until we say so” that would probably cause ill-will in the already volatile SSPX crowds.

 

[Timothysis]

It would be in Rome’s best interest to “immediately” declare attending the SSPX Churches are OK. If Rome says “You’re not allowed to attend until we say so” that would probably cause ill-will in the already volatile SSPX crowds.

So, it’s not enough for the sspx to tell the Pope how things should be, you feel the need to “inform” the Holy Father yourself?

Well, the reconciliation isn’t going to happen anyway, so I guess it doesn’t really matter WHO tells the Pope what he should do.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Would you not agree that the state of “schism” (for lack of a better word to describe the unique position of the sspx) shouldn’t last a millisecond longer than it has to?

 

[ethelzguy]

These “what if” scenarios are an exercise in futility, because it’s not going to happen.

On this, we are in total agreement.

 

[Timothysis]

Would you not agree that the state of “schism” (for lack of a better word to describe the unique position of the sspx) shouldn’t last a millisecond longer than it has to?

I agree that the state of “schism” should be ended if and when the Holy Father and those officials in Rome decide that it should be ended, not when anonymous posters on an internet site decide.

 

[rpp]

Would you not agree that the state of “schism” (for lack of a better word to describe the unique position of the sspx) shouldn’t last a millisecond longer than it has to?

It is possible that that is the real purpose of this deadline. Reading between the lines it is really a final choice.

The SSPX rejects this, I think there is a strong possibility that the SSPX will be declared to be officially in schism. On the other hand, if they accept this and reconcile with the Holy See, the details may be taken care of at warp speed (at least by Church standards).

Praying for reconciliation.

 

[saint_rafael]

All the posts and blogs are saying the same thing, that SSPX might “return” or “come back home”.

Well I have news for you folks, they are already inside the Church. They are Catholics.

The deal between Rome and the SSPX is for canonical regularization. Whether they are regularized or not, they will always remain Catholics with the traditional faith.

I trust the judgement of Bishop Fellay and I hope his discerns God’s will at this moment in time. This might be the time to strike a deal and push for tradition.

The SSPX could also decide that the apostasy and crisis is still to big for regularization and wait for a future Pope.

What a moment in history, if Pope Benedict decides to make the ex-communications void and justice is given to Lefebvre and his fight for the faith.

 

[Timothysis]

All the posts and blogs are saying the same thing, that SSPX might “return” or “come back home”.

Well I have news for you folks, they are already inside the Church. They are Catholics.

The deal between Rome and the SSPX is for canonical regularization. Whether they are regularized or not, they will always remain Catholics with the traditional faith.

I trust the judgement of Bishop Fellay and I hope his discerns God’s will at this moment in time. This might be the time to strike a deal and push for tradition.

The SSPX could also decide that the apostasy and crisis is still to big for regularization and wait for a future Pope.

What a moment in history, if Pope Benedict decides to make the ex-communications void and justice is given to Lefebvre and his fight for the faith.

Oh, brother. First, if they reject this offer then they will probably be declared in “official schism,” which opens up a whole new can of worms. Yeah, they’re catholics, but if they reject the offer, look out!

Secondly, you say they could wait for a future Pope. If they won’t humble themselves now, what makes you think they’ll do so in the future? Once again, we see the arrogance of the Church meeting them instead of them meeting the Church mentality. Rome decides what is right, not the sspx.

Lastly, nothing has been said about the excommunications being lifted. You still fail to realize that the Archbishop’s excommunication had nothing to do with the status of the sspx but disobedience. How can one who was excommunicated by his own actions and died unrepentant have an excommunication removed after death? - And please don’t bring up Joan of Arc; it is NOT the same thing.

 

[saint_rafael]

Oh, brother. First, if they reject this offer then they will probably be declared in “official schism,” which opens up a whole new can of worms. Yeah, they’re catholics, but if they reject the offer, look out!

Secondly, you say they could wait for a future Pope. If they won’t humble themselves now, what makes you think they’ll do so in the future? Once again, we see the arrogance of the Church meeting them instead of them meeting the Church mentality. Rome decides what is right, not the sspx.

Lastly, nothing has been said about the excommunications being lifted. You still fail to realize that the Archbishop’s excommunication had nothing to do with the status of the sspx but disobedience. How can one who was excommunicated by his own actions and died unrepentant have an excommunication removed after death? - And please don’t bring up Joan of Arc; it is NOT the same thing.

The SSPX are not in a formal schism now and they haven’t been in a schism for twenty years, so how can they be in a schism by rejecting an offer? That makes no sense. The only thing is that they will not be regularized.

There will be a fututre traditional Pope who is not infected with modernism and was not part of the whole Vatican II mess and has no attachment to the 60’s or the new theology.

The four bishops of the SSPX have been ex-communicated by Pope John Paul II. If they are to be regularized, Pope Benedict has to lift those ex-communications.

There are many saints who have been ex-communicated in the history of the Church.

I pray that they be regularized, and I hope that Rome does not stab them in the back like they did the FSSP.

 

[Timothysis]

The SSPX are not in a formal schism now and they haven’t been in a schism for twenty years, so how can they be in a schism by rejecting an offer? That makes no sense. The only thing is that they will not be regularized.

If they reject the offer, they will, most probably, declared to be officially in “schism.” They are not in “schism” now, but may be if they reject the offer.

There will be a fututre traditional Pope who is not infected with modernism and was not part of the whole Vatican II mess and has no attachment to the 60’s or the new theology.

Ah yes, the Holier Than The Pope stance…by the way, the documents of Vatican II are in line with traditional Church teaching. If you disagree, take it up with Pope Benedict XVI. His problem with Vatican II, like John Paul II, was in the way things were mis-implemented. He is working on that even as we speak.

The four bishops of the SSPX have been ex-communicated by Pope John Paul II. If they are to be regularized, Pope Benedict has to lift those ex-communications.

Only those who appeal to the Pope will have their excommunications lifted. The Archbishop, being dead, may have a hard time asking to be reconciled. Knowing the mindset of Bishop Fellay, I seriously doubt that it will happen.

There are many saints who have been ex-communicated in the history of the Church.

Name three…and no, Joan of Arc does not count.

I pray that they be regularized, and I hope that Rome does not stab them in the back like they did the FSSP.

Now there’s a forgiving attitude. Sheesh…

 

[saint_rafael]

If they reject the offer, they will, most probably, declared to be officially in “schism.” They are not in “schism” now, but may be if they reject the offer…

That is ridiculous and makes no sense. They reject an offer as part of a negotiation and they are declared schismatic? on what grounds? They are Catholic and will remain so because they hold the faith and believe in Petrine primacy. If they have never been in schism, they will not be become schismatic in the future.

Ah yes, the Holier Than The Pope stance…by the way, the documents of Vatican II are in line with traditional Church teaching. If you disagree, take it up with Pope Benedict XVI. His problem with Vatican II, like John Paul II, was in the way things were mis-implemented. He is working on that even as we speak.

Catholics should read the opening address of Pope John XXIII in which he said “this is not a dogmatic council”. It was a pastoral council, which means it was the first of its kind and was not protected by the Holy Spirit. I wouldn’t be suprised if it is scrapped and written off the records in this century.

Only those who appeal to the Pope will have their excommunications lifted. The Archbishop, being dead, may have a hard time asking to be reconciled. Knowing the mindset of Bishop Fellay, I seriously doubt that it will happen.

That is ridiculous. The Pope can lift the ex-communication of any person living or dead.

Ex-Communication does not automatically mean damnation or has anything to do with judgement because God alone judges the dead and in the case of unjust Church actions, they would enter heaven if they merit it.
The Pope can declare Lefebvre’s ex-communication void.

St. Athanasius, Blessed Mary MacKillop, St. Lucifer of Cagliari, St. Hippolytus of Rome are example of Catholics who were ex-communicated.

 

[ProVobis]

I agree that the state of “schism” should be ended if and when the Holy Father and those officials in Rome decide that it should be ended, not when anonymous posters on an internet site decide.

But you just stated:

the reconciliation isn’t going to happen

so who’s made the decision already?

 

[saint_rafael]

voiceofcatholicradio.com has a sermon by SSPX Catholic priest, Fr. Adam Portugal talking about “Rome’s Ultimatum”.

It’s under the “special events” link on the left in the “sermons” section of that page.

voiceofcatholicradio.com/catholicradiowebpage.htm

Here’s the link for the actual sermon:
voiceofcatholicradio.com/080622.6th_suday_after_pentecost,fr_portugal_rome_s_ultimatum.mp3

 

[NicPais83]

There will be a fututre traditional Pope who is not infected with modernism and was not part of the whole Vatican II mess and has no attachment to the 60’s or the new theology.

The four bishops of the SSPX have been ex-communicated by Pope John Paul II. If they are to be regularized, Pope Benedict has to lift those ex-communications.

I pray that they be regularized, and I hope that Rome does not stab them in the back like they did the FSSP.

These are rather bold statements for you to make about the Vicar of Christ. You are making a generalized judgement about the Popes we currently have and the Popes that we will have. I find it interesting that you seem to know the mindset of a future Pope, in particular.

As for the Pope Benedict XVI lifting excommunications, the Pope does not have to do anything of the sort. If the Pope decides to lift them, that is his call to make as Pope. But he is not bound to lift any excommunications if he feels that they were justified. You are placing conditions on the Supreme power of the Vicar of Christ, which you are not in a position to do.

As for stabbing the FSSP in the back, you cannot make such an accusation without at least giving some type of proof. You claim that the SSPX is within the Church, and it is true that they are not in formal schism, at least at the moment. But attacking the Magesterium of the Church, claiming that the Church back-stabs, and questioning the theology of the Pope does not help to win support to your cause.