If there is no set authority?

[Texan_in_DC]

If there is no set authority, than whom should we trust in scripture teaching.

For the most part both Catholics and Protestants read the same bible, with the same versus, ect…

But the truth is that we both have different ideas of what the bible teaches us. And within the Protestant churches each church teaches something a little bit different.

My question to all protestants is if we have no set authority, than whom should we believe, the Baptist preacher down the street, the non denom minister who confesses that they are just a bible believing church, the methodist, the church of christ, or what about those Mormons that all claim are not christian yet are really nice people who have big loving families?

If there is no authority, than how does one choose to believe the Mormon or Jehova Witness that knocks on my door, or the Baptist group who invites me to a bannana split social at their church?

And finnally wouldnt it be reasonable that Jesus did indeed set up a way thay we could have that authority so that I could fall back to a Church that is as strong as a rock, a church that I could rely on no matter what culture I come from?

It seems to me that the Catholic Church is the only reasonable way when you sit down and really look at all the facts.

 

[bhlincoln]

Texan in DC:

If there is no set authority, than whom should we trust in scripture teaching.

My question to all protestants is if we have no set authority, than whom should we believe, the Baptist preacher down the street,

You bring up a great question that I bring up to Protestants all the time. Never have I gotten a straight answer. I cover answers to this question in detail on my site at these links if anyone is interested:

protestanterrors.com/#5
protestanterrors.com/#22
protestanterrors.com/#23

BH

 

[carol_marie]

That’s why I found it so confusing to be a Protestant. I studied the Bible on my own & tried to decide what was true & then tried to find a church that matched my beliefs. Often Protestants will admit that the church they go to isn’t 100% correct - but close enough is good enough. I know that’s what I always felt. The trouble with ME being the authority - which is basically what a person does - the trouble w/ that is I don’t know Greek - I don’t know Hebrew - how am I supposed to know just what the Bible writers meant? Now a Protestant will say that the Holy Spirit guides them to the truth… but gosh that “Holy Spirit” must be confused because it obviously guides some to the Mormon Church - some to the Baptist Church - some to the Lutheran Church etc.

How does THAT make sense?

 

[BrianH]

"It seems to me that the Catholic Church is the only reasonable way when you sit down and really look at all the facts."

1.1 Billion reasonable people?

900 million unreasonable people?

I can tell you that you could replace Catholic Church in this sentence with LDS, COC, JW…I suppose I have heard them all.

Let me try this approach, I would say that Jesus and others set the example. Tell me what you think

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? *
**
Mat 22:29* *Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. *

**Jhn 5:39 ** Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Act 17:11 *These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. *

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now this is easily countered by people who would point to the parts of scripture which speak to authority in the church. That would branch off into a discussion about the scope of the authority…. I recognize that. That is why this discussion is so multi-faceted. If you hold that Christ set up one central organization to interpret scripture…very little could disuade you from the perspective.
BrianH

 

[Corpus_Cristi]

"It seems to me that the Catholic Church is the only reasonable way when you sit down and really look at all the facts."

1.1 Billion reasonable people?

900 million unreasonable people?

I can tell you that you could replace Catholic Church in this sentence with LDS, COC, JW…I suppose I have heard them all.

Let me try this approach, I would say that Jesus and others set the example. Tell me what you think

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? *
**
Mat 22:29* *Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. *

**Jhn 5:39 ** Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Act 17:11 *These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. *

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now this is easily countered by people who would point to the parts of scripture which speak to authority in the church. That would branch off into a discussion about the scope of the authority…. I recognize that. That is why this discussion is so multi-faceted. If you hold that Christ set up one central organization to interpret scripture…very little could disuade you from the perspective.
BrianH

Actually, if you’ve ever been evangelized by an LDS, then you’d know that they’re conversion is totally based on subjectivism and not trusting your knowledge, but trusting feelings. No, the Catholic Church wouldn’t go with any of those because for one, we’re the oldest church, like, ever. That’s one clue for you. Another thing, for centuries, the church has never needed to prove it’s authority to ANYONE using ANYTHING because EVERYBODY knew about it. Those heretics in the early church, in the early centuries, they all knew the authority that the Church had, and they went against it, but they were all defeated by time because the kingdom of God is not a kingdom of talk, but of POWER. The only time someone’s succeeded at leading mass people out of the church was during the protestant reformation when Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, those guys, they led people out of the church by first being convinced and then actually convincing others that the church HAD no authority. Although blindly carrying some of their Catholicism with them, they concluded that Catholic Church authority was a joke and that it took away from the “authority” of Scripture as the “sole rule of faith”, which it isn’t by the way. The Church has the authority to interpret scripture in the way that it was meant to be interpreted because it’s the ONLY thing that makes sense, and if you’d like to argue that, you can’t use ANYTHING to back up that a bunch of denominations all interpreting the scriptures differently on matters of who can be saved, how we’re justified to BE saved, and other matters like that, makes any more sense than we do, because in truth, 2 churches is still one too many. Christ founded one, men founded tons.

God bless

• JMJ JHS

VIVEINSPIRITUSEMPER

 

[Corpus_Cristi]

Besides, if there’s no set authority, then everybody’s wrong because the Catholic Church is the one who took the books of the Bible and slapped the thing together. (Minus 7 books from the OT), you guys only have what we put there.

 

[George_Waters]

bhlincoln:

You bring up a great question that I bring up to Protestants all the time. Never have I gotten a straight answer. I cover answers to this question in detail on my site at these links if anyone is interested:

protestanterrors.com/#5
protestanterrors.com/#22
protestanterrors.com/#23

BH

Why do you care BH? Didn’t you say “Once I know that religion is false, I don’t care much about comparing their views after that.”? Yet you have an entire site dedicated to doing that. Just my $.02.

Peace,

George

 

[Wildkit]

If you have a problem with scripture, it says very clearly in Matt 18: 15 – 18 what course of action you should do If you have a problem of sinful matters, go to the Bible to settle! So what is the question?

No,…of course not, I am kidding on a parody by Tim Stables I believe,……take your question to the priest/prelates,….the CHURCH!

In Matt 16:19, Jesus gives the keys – authority to Peter,….not all the Apostles or someone else. Jesus is speaking to Peter and gives the infallible authority on earth. Bishops rule and speak in step with Peter,….but what ever Peter says,….that is with the authority from God.

Just as with the Chair of Moses where people went to clarify matters of scripture in the OT, we have the same instructions today,……but some of us have become smarter and just know better. Yet in Matt 18:3-4, Jesus remarks that to enter the kingdom of God, you must become like little children. In a different way, we need to submit our intelligence from all the rants and raves (I think today it is called proof texting) and people who know better than the instructions Christ gave to his people on Earth. What I find so amazing sometimes is why is this so difficult?

 

[BrianH]

George Waters:

Why do you care BH? Didn’t you say “Once I know that religion is false, I don’t care much about comparing their views after that.”? Yet you have an entire site dedicated to doing that. Just my $.02.

Peace,

George

Mistaken Identity George.
BH

 

[BrianH]

Corpus Cristi:

Besides, if there’s no set authority, then everybody’s wrong because the Catholic Church is the one who took the books of the Bible and slapped the thing together. (Minus 7 books from the OT), you guys only have what we put there.

I think God “slapped” it together. In these parts, God and Catholicism are used synonymously, you get my point, and in my parts the two CAN be synonymous.
BrianH

 

[Della]

If you hold that Christ set up one central organization to interpret scripture…very little could disuade you from the perspective.
BrianH

You mean Bible verses interpreted by people with no authority to do so according to what they already want to believe as opposed to the very Church Christ himself founded? No thank you. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

Private interpretation doesn’t work in the formulating of doctrine and dogma and never will work because Christ didn’t establish a group of Lone Rangers, but a corporate Body. And what body can do anything apart from its head? None. A decapitated body is a dead thing with no power to do anything.

 

[bhlincoln]

George Waters:

Why do you care BH? Didn’t you say “Once I know that religion is false, I don’t care much about comparing their views after that.”? Yet you have an entire site dedicated to doing that. Just my $.02.

Peace,

George

George,
When I said “that religion” I was referring to Islam. My site is dedicated to correcting misguided Protestants.

BH

 

[George_Waters]

bhlincoln:

George,
When I said “that religion” I was referring to Islam. My site is dedicated to correcting misguided Protestants.

BH

I know whom you were referring to; I am just surprised by your lack of consistency. Why do you care what Protestants believe when they have as many doctrinal errors as Islam? Why not care about correcting all misguided souls?

Peace,

George

 

[BrianH]

George Waters:

Why do you care what Protestants believe when they have as many doctrinal errors as Islam?

Oh my…goodness.

 

[shockerfan]

BrianH:

If you hold that Christ set up one central organization to interpret scripture…very little could disuade you from the perspective.
BrianH

One way a person could be dissuaded from personal interpretation being sufficient is to realize that there is reportedly over 33,000+ different denominations of Christians.

Would you not admit the following:

1. Truth is singular. We can’t all be right.
2. The reason for the large number of Christian denominations is primarily due to differing personal interpretations of the “truth”
3. Do you think Christ wants “Christians” to be so splintered and not in unity?

Thanks.

 

[shockerfan]

Oh my…goodness.
[/quote]

BH,

Your calm and demeanor is impressive.

SF

 

[BrianH]

shockerfan:

One way a person could be dissuaded from personal interpretation being sufficient is to realize that there is reportedly over 33,000+ different denominations of Christians.

Would you not admit the following:

1. Truth is singular. We can’t all be right.
2. The reason for the large number of Christian denominations is primarily due to differing personal interpretations of the “truth”
3. Do you think Christ wants “Christians” to be so splintered and not in unity?

Thanks.

1. I agree
2. I agree
3. That is a very loaded question for me. I do not think that
   Christ wants that. I do not think the Catholic church looks much like what Jesus taught(not to rile anyones feathers here) and having studied the history of the Christian church that the claims about Peter are historically provable…and in my view are actually historically disprovable(you know, Im not even sure that is a word…). I think when push comes to shove, you guys have A LOT of …valid and solid points. contrary to what someone contended, I do seek the truth. One thing, if Christ wanted the unity and set up his church for that…did the gates of hell prevail?
   We can make that rhetorical for now…rest assured I will as always continue to ponder the veracity and accuracy of the Catholic claims. I am not dismissive.

Thank you for your nice comments. There is no way…I am sure…that your name means you are a Wichita State Shocker fan…I have my school district licensure from WSU.
BH

 

[TheRaiders]

I have read up, and there is plenty of proof that Peter was the head of the Church from the beginning, both Scripturally and historically. Just curious, what’s at stake for you if I am right? Isn’t it comforting for you to ponder that Jesus may have set up one true Church, and through the Trinity’s infinite power, kept it true for 2000 years?
Otherwise, if God didn’t (He did), what good is the Bible which was put together by that Church?
Also, God has performed many signs and wonders since His ascention that have guided us along the way. It would be incomprehensible to me that God would not warn people like Mother Theresa, Dorothy Day, Saint Francis de Sales, or and of the holy men and women and Saints that they are following a Church that was irrelevant after the 12 passed away.
Yes, I do think Jesus works great things through Protestant sects. I think it is a compromise who benefits from Christians being outside the protection of the Church. On one hand, Jesus has a way of keeping people Chrisitian, even if they aren’t Catholic. On the other hand, the Devil has so much more power to mislead when the Christians can’t agree.
Catholic’s debate a lot but nobody can say the Apostle’s Creed with a straight face if they truly reject what’s in it.

 

[BrianH]

What is at stake if you are right?
I would say…
my belief that Christianity should look like the NT described it.
That is not intended flippant, it is…what I truly think.
Your post is eloquent and the pizza is ready
BH

 

[bhlincoln]

George Waters:

I know whom you were referring to; I am just surprised by your lack of consistency. Why do you care what Protestants believe when they have as many doctrinal errors as Islam? Why not care about correcting all misguided souls?

Peace,

George

I’d love to see all misguided souls converted. However discussions with muslims have repeatedly proven to be illogical and go absolutely no where because of it. Immediately throwing out unfounded, illogical claims like “Scripture was doctored” make conversations a waste of time.

Protestants on the other hand already claim to want to follow Christ, and discussions with them are easier and more logical in most cases. So I focus in that area for now.

BH