If we are bound to vote for the lesser evil. Shouldn't we all vote for the American Solidarity Party?

[otjm]

And you honestly think that imprisonment is the only solution? Not, I don’t know, treatment for their medical issues and provision of housing?

Imprisonment needs to be a part of the equation.

Google “Seattle is Dying”, a recent report by one of the television stations in Seattle. They go to (if I recall correctly) Rhode Island during the report because RI is using imprisonment a a leverage to getting addicts to clean up.

Currently Oregon has a ballot measure to remove (most) imprisonment and
spend the money on more drug treatment". The $$$ behind the ballot is George Soros.

Think about that one for a bit.

Oregon is a very liberal state, and the presumption is that if it gets passed in Oregon, then it can be spread out to other states.

As far as prison (as opposed to jail - county lockup) is concerned Oregon has a prison population of 15,000. The total of that because of drugs - 5%, meaning it is mid level and b=above drug dealers.

What happens if you remove some jail time as a leverage to get into a program?

We already have programs; someone wanting treatment can get into one. And that is going over like the proverbial lead balloon; they are addicts because of the want/need for another fix. Unless they are squeezed as part of a possible sentence to get into treatment, the vast majority have no motivation to do so. Remove the criminality of the act of being zonked out, and there is no motivation on the addict’s part to clean up, and no leverage to move the addict to treatment.

 

[otjm]

There’s a lot of us Catholics, and we should have the clout to change both parties.

There’s a lot of Catholics if you count the CINO’s.

Somewhere between 20 and 25% of Catholics attend Mass weekly;. If they voted as a block, they might be able to swing the needle in some states. There is nowhere near the power possible with those who actually try to follow Church teaching; there just are not that many bodies.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Remove the criminality of the act of being zonked out, and there is no motivation on the addict’s part to clean up, and no leverage to move the addict to treatment.

Then why did decriminalization work in Portugal?

 

[otjm]

I don’t know that decriminalization worked in Portugal, and if decriminalization works so great, I wonder why Holland has such a massive drug problem.

Having done criminal defense work, 1) I stand by my observation, and 2) if George Soros is backing it, I am not.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Remove the criminality of the act of being zonked out, and there is no motivation on the addict’s part to clean up, and no leverage to move the addict to treatment.

I don’t know that that’s true. Alcoholics Anonymous is a busy and well regarded organization. Plenty of people are clearly motivated to treat their alcoholism despite alcohol not being illegal.

 

[PeterT]

We are bound to vote for the lesser evil between candidates when both candidates have morally objectional platforms.

If that is the case, wouldn’t we all be called to vote for the American Solidarity Party because they have NO objectionable platforms and are perfectly aligned with Catholic teaching?

Not necessarily.

If the ASP were a more credible third party (with at least the same or greater amount of support as the Green Party or the Libertarian Party enjoy), then there would be more reasons and more impetus to vote for a ASP candidate. But in the U.S., the ASP is an extremely fringe third-party that can’t get on the ballot in most states and hence their candidates tend to be relegated to being “write-in” candidates.

If the ASP and their candidates want to be taken serious, they need to make the effort AND SUCCEED in having the candidates placed on actual ballots (not just be “write-in” candidates).

If the ASP can’t even achieve this very modest goal, there no reason why someone else should squander their precious vote by voting for a candidate that has basically zero chance of getting elected or even having their vote totals being listed in the actual election results.

 

[otjm]

AA tends to get them, but not until they have bottomed out.

And there are multiple agencies which get referrals from drunk drivers who get to bypass jail by going to rehab - more evidence of the use of a jail sentence to get someone into treatment.

 

[Sarcelle]

That is what I did.

Brian Carroll and Amar Patel.

 

[mythbuster1]

First, the American Solidarity Party isn’t on the ballot everywhere. Second, I know many environmentalists who have utter disregard for the threat their policies pose to human life. They will, for example, forbid developing countries from using DDT to stop the spread of malaria and other lethal mosquito-borne diseases, when they have no alternative means to do so. Many resist nuclear power even though the alternative is fossil fuel.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I really hate being the kill-joy, but let’s examine some actual facts:

The American Solidarity Party got about 22,000 votes.

To put this into perspective, Kanye West and his “Birthday Party” got THREE TiMES as many votes.

In other words, if you voted for the ASP, you had as much effect as if you posted a Tweet or yet another post on this thread. Waste of a vote.

 

[phil19034]

Formon:

Minimum wages are a fundamental platform of the socialist party.

I thought minimun wages were part of the Social Doctrine, when the Popes talk about the obligation of an employeer to pay a just wage.

The national minimum wage is not part of Catholic Social Doctrine. The concept of paying a man a just wage so he can take care of his family IS Catholic Social Doctrine.

While there might seem like no difference, there is.

Rerum novarum called for married men to be able to earn wages to support his family. In the United States (for example) companies used to pay married workers more than single workers. They did this because the married worker needed to support a family, while the single worker did not.

This was also a way for the employer to earn additional employee loyalty.

However, there was a lawsuit (I think in the 1970s) that challenged this and made it illegal for marital status & parental to directly influence wages.

The fact that married workers are no longer eligible for a “marriage raise” has forced two wage incomes.

Reason: before - when a man got married, his boss would give him a raise because he now had to support another person (his wife) and then it wasn’t uncommon to get additional raises (even if small) for each child.

But now, in a single income household, the working parent is financially penalized when he marries and each time he has kids.

So the minimum wage doesn’t help when the minimum wage for single person is the same for a married person with children.

What we need to bring back is allowing employers to give cost of living increases when a worker gets married and when a worker has children. It is unjust - from a Catholic point of view - to treat the single worker the same as the married worker with kids.

I pray I’m making sense.

 

[Sarcelle]

Frankly speaking, I don’t care about a waste of my vote.

I will not vote for either Democrats or Republicans. I am truly disgusted and angered by both of them.

I will vote according to my conscience and I will vote for a party that is more closely aligned with the Church.

 

[pnewton]

Waste of a vote.

The Catholic Church allows the option, along with the option of not casting a ballot on that race.

 

[Fets]

All of the data isn’t in yet. But, one exit poll found that among all people who worshipped at least weekly 61% voted for Trump. That’s all people, including evangelical Protestants etc.

So, yeah, sadly they don’t vote as a bloc. I’d be intrigued to see the numbers come out for us Catholics though.

 

[Fets]

I voted for the American Solidarity Party. And it is the third time I’ve voted for President, and I have yet to vote for a Republican or Democrat for President.

The American Solidarity Party was a certified write-in in 31 states, in addition to the 8 that they were on the ballot on. So, we don’t have their total of votes yet. Without Covid, they might have got on the ballot in many more states. Collecting signatures is often required, and you have to do that in-person, not online.

As has been pointed out, Catholics are free to waste their votes, or not vote at all. Obviously the Church is perfectly fine with monarchy as a form of government, in which people do not vote. Just because the 2 party system is entrenched here, doesn’t mean we have to be ‘logical’ or ‘in the real world’ when considering our vote.

Is the Church influenced by how many people follow Distributism? Or how many people abstain from contraception? The Church sets the bar high. I don’t think the Church accepts flawed realities in society very often. So, I’m not going to accept the flawed reality of governmnet in the country I was born in.

 

[otjm]

I’d be intrigued to see the numbers come out for us Catholics though.

The difficulty with “Catholic” numbers is that the polls rarely (with the exception of CARA) distinguish between “I was baptized” and “I go to Mass weekly”.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

So, I’m not going to accept the flawed reality of governmnet in the country I was born in.

I can see that.

 

[JMMJ]

I pray I’m making sense.

You aren’t. That is ridiculous. We live in different times now. Thank goodness.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

What we need to bring back is allowing employers to give cost of living increases when a worker gets married and when a worker has children. It is unjust - from a Catholic point of view - to treat the single worker the same as the married worker with kids.

From a practical point of view, does this make sense? Who would you hire if you were an employer: married men? Married men or women? Single men? Single men or women?

If I were an employer trying to maximize profits, I know what I would do! I would only hire single men or women and then get rid of them as soon as they got married. Illegal? Sure, but that doesn’t stop employers from getting rid of older workers or any other class of worker they want–they just have to be a teensy bit careful.

My parents were married secretly in 1936. Why secretly? Because if my mother announced that she had gotten married she would have lost her job. Do we want to return to these conditions?

And of course if I got $20 an hour as a married person and $15 an hour as a single person–for the same exact job–wouldn’t that encourage marriages of convenience and / or fraud? What happens to the idea of equity–equal pay for equal work?

It seems to me that a lot of posters have lost touch with reality. This is not the Kingdom of God or anything like it. You can create a fantasy world and economy all you want. You can refuse to vote for the two main parties, but in the end one of them is going to win, and you are simply allowing your neighbors to choose for you.

 

[Sarcelle]

You can refuse to vote for the two main parties, but in the end one of them is going to win, and you are simply allowing your neighbors to choose for you.

I agree with most of your points and I do agree with above up to a point.

Voting for a third party will allow your neighbor to choose for you. This is short term thinking. We have to think long term. The more people vote third party, the less dominance the two major parties will have. In time we can get away from this two party domination. It will take time but we have to take the first step and take action now.

In the end we vote with our conscience as a guide and to me the Solidarity party is the party for me.