If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[jofa]

reteeks21 - I think you avoided the points I was making in my post by focusing on my “the church did better than Jesus” statement which (I thought everyone would recognize) was not meant seriously, but only as comparative in percentages. No one can do “better” than Christ. Feel free to actually comment on the substance of my post if you’d like…
Peace, In Christ,
jofa

 

[butasforme]

are many of you familiar with the early Church fathers? they are a great resource for understanding what the early Christians believed, particularly those closest to Christ and his apostles. check it out:
Early Church Fathers

 

[awantz]

Could I possibly inquire to what that was?

The priest was rude to me, because I am not Catholic.
They say that after infant babtism the child is saved.
Confession is a requirement.
I’m sure there are other things, but I am in pain right now and I can’t think.

 

[meandean]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **

Note: The first thread titled, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?” was closed because it had exceeded the maximum amount of posts (1,000). Continue your remarks on this topic, here.

well jimmy, heres why… i don’t want to be. from the outside, looking in, there is to much controversy about the catholic church and its doctrines. i don’t believe anyone or anything can save you except christ,and him alone.now i realize the council of trent has just damned me to hell, but thats okay, because i know that it is by faith in christ that i know i am saved. so for you to be catholic is okay with me, i’m not even gonna try to change you, even if i could, i wouldn’t, its your choice and i’ll honor that.i believe that i became a member of christs church the moment i came to the cross,and heard the message of salvation, that he died for me, and rose again, and i accepted his gift and placed my trust in him.and now i follow him.

 

[MelanieAnne]

well jimmy, heres why… i don’t want to be. from the outside, looking in, there is to much controversy about the catholic church and its doctrines. i don’t believe anyone or anything can save you except christ,and him alone.now i realize the council of trent has just damned me to hell, but thats okay, because i know that it is by faith in christ that i know i am saved. so for you to be catholic is okay with me, i’m not even gonna try to change you, even if i could, i wouldn’t, its your choice and i’ll honor that.i believe that i became a member of christs church the moment i came to the cross,and heard the message of salvation, that he died for me, and rose again, and i accepted his gift and placed my trust in him.and now i follow him.

Many protestant/evangelical/non-denominational Christian churches have as one of their doctrines that anyone who is a member of another faith is going to hell. I heard them say so, I’ve heard pastors preach on the subject and I’ve seen classes taught on that very subject. Just out of curiosity, is the faith that you are describing as “Christ’s Church” one of those?

One of the reasons that I AM a Catholic is because of the Catholic Church is not the sort of Calvinistic, exclusionary religion found in many Protestant denominations. I find that sort of thinking very “un-Christian”. Just my opinion of course, but to my mind, Jesus came to draw us to Him, not to push certain folks away for one reason or another.

Of course “controversy” is also rather subjective. There is a lot of “controversy” about “doctrines” of the Catholic Church that are not actually doctrines of the Catholic Church at all. So without knowing what those “controversies” are, it’s hard to discuss them.

 

[meandean]

Many protestant/evangelical/non-denominational Christian churches have as one of their doctrines that anyone who is a member of another faith is going to hell. I heard them say so, I’ve heard pastors preach on the subject and I’ve seen classes taught on that very subject. Just out of curiosity, is the faith that you are describing as “Christ’s Church” one of those?

One of the reasons that I AM a Catholic is because of the Catholic Church is not the sort of Calvinistic, exclusionary religion found in many Protestant denominations. I find that sort of thinking very “un-Christian”. Just my opinion of course, but to my mind, Jesus came to draw us to Him, not to push certain folks away for one reason or another.

Of course “controversy” is also rather subjective. There is a lot of “controversy” about “doctrines” of the Catholic Church that are not actually doctrines of the Catholic Church at all. So without knowing what those “controversies” are, it’s hard to discuss them.

are you assuming that i am protestant because i’m not catholic? you see melanie, i said i placed my trust in christ, so why are you accusing or attacking the protestant faith?why would it make your blood boil because i choose not to be catholic and simply place my trust in christ?

 

[MelanieAnne]

are you assuming that i am protestant because i’m not catholic? you see melanie, i said i placed my trust in christ, so why are you accusing or attacking the protestant faith?why would it make your blood boil because i choose not to be catholic and simply place my trust in christ?

I’m not accusing, assuming or attacking anything or anyone. I did ask a question, and I did note my own experience. That I did so does not constitute an attack. Nor did it make my “blood boil”.

I find it odd that anyone would read so much into something. You don’t need to answer the question of course, but if you’re going to hypothesize, kindly refrain from attributing what you imagine to me.

If you’re going to accuse anyone of the sort of things you have written, you should be prepared to delineate specifically what those attacks, assumptions, accusations, etc. truly are. I am responsible for what I write, but I cannot be responsible for what you imagine to be true.

 

[Swan]

Even if you feel that way, who are we (or you or the Catholic Church) to deny someone the opportunity to join in worshipping the Lord and receiving his sacraments - last time I checked those were His sacraments, not ours. The Episcopal Church provides those rejected by many other faiths the opportunity to commune with the Lord and other Christians and to get some spiritual guidance on these issues. Can the Catholic Church or some of the more fundamental denominations say as much? 2 Corinthians 5:10 states: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.” Christ will judge us for our thoughts and words and sins in this world - not anyone else. As is said in 2 Timothy 4:2: “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.” It is hard to “reprove, rebuke, and exhort” and patiently teach those we exclude from the body of the Faith.

Finally, for many it is hard to take seriously the judgements of Catholic Church leaders, when for years they systematically covered-up (and by their omission tacitly condoned) many instances of pedophilia by priests. How can someone accept judgmental attitudes from a group whose hands are far from clean? Matthew 7:2-5 declares, “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” I think this verse can apply to many clergymen, faiths, and Christians.

Romans 10:13 " For whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I don’t believe that this excludes the sinner. The church is the perfect place for all that are not perfect!

I agree. Didn’t Jesus say that the well did not need a docor?

 

[MelanieAnne]

I agree. Didn’t Jesus say that the well did not need a docor?

Yes, I’ve often heard it said that the church is not a “museum for Saints” it’s a “hospital for sinners”.

 

[Salamander]

This link pretty much sums up the reasons:

bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm

Some may find this lengthy, but, you did ask, afterall.

bible.ca/catholic-questions.htm Oh, and this one too…

 

[Jimmy_B]

The three-legged stool is the Magisterium (the teaching office of the Church), Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I guess the Episcopalians deceided to leave out the teaching office and go with their reasoning, right? Sometimes we reason wrong. I will continue to go with the teaching office of the Church that Jesus founded. By the way, I noticed you didn’t respond to my post. Was there a reason you were ignoring it or did you not see it?

 

[Memaw]

I wouldn’t agree with that. I do believe that the RCC became apostate and that is why the great schism happened and that’s why the reformation happened. I think the RCC is increasingly irrelevant and she is way too legalistic for most people.

Also, the arrogance of claiming to be the one true church, Petrine doctrine, that no one has salvation outside the RCC, infallible papacy, transubstantiation, etc, contribute to rejection of the RCC. There are better ways.

I think you need to study history, The RCC is 2.000 years and still teaching the same true doctrine giving it from Jesus Christ. In the 500 or so years since the protestant reformation, the protestant denominations have divided and divided until there are approx. 40,000 different ones and growing. They ran with the Bible and now they can’t even agree as to what it says. So much for self interpretation. When your denomination has been around for 2,000 years, teaching the same truths that Jesus taught, come back and we’ll talk about it. In the meantime, I suggest you learn to read the Bible in a truthful and prayerful way. You might just recognize HIS Church in the Catholic Church. Oh and try to leave behind those old and tired accusations.

 

[Memaw]

Let me begin by saying that there are many many many things about the Roman Catholic Church that I greatly admire and respect, and in many ways, I think I would be very happy to become a Roman Catholic. That said, there are several reasons that I do not.

1. The Lutheran Church, for all its foibles and failings, formed me in the faith and nurtured me with Word and Sacrament. I have encountered God in profound ways in the Eucharistic Meal, and in the preached Word, and to become Roman Catholic, I would have to cease believing that what I was fed at the Altar in that Lutheran Church was truly the body and blood of Christ. This I cannot do.
2. I have spent many years studying Church history, and have paid particular attention to the history leading up to various schisms. While I do not think that breaking from the Church is generally ideal, I see in all of these schisms (whether the Great Schism, or the Lutheran Reformation) a hardness of heart and arrogance-- on BOTH sides. Therefore, while I see the state of disunity as sinful, I believe there to be shared responsibility in the decisions which led to such a state.
3. Papal infallibility. This is related to the previous reason. One of the things I do appreciate about Lutheranism, is the fact that it acknowledges the reality of tensions inherent in the Christian life. The struggle to live the life of faith, the struggle to understand those mysteries beyond our understanding, the struggle to discern God’s will. Lutherans acknowledge that the Church has both a human and a Divine character-- and that on this side of the kingdom-- it will continue to be a struggle. Sure, I’d love for everything to be black-and-white, but that’s not my experience of the world. It’s messier than that.
4. Music. No kidding. This is perhaps not the best reason for my remaining a Lutheran, but as a musician, I pray best through music, and I find it hard to concentrate in spoken masses, and frustrated with trite hymnody. I know this is a gross generalization, and I am sure that some Roman Catholic Churches have a wonderful musical tradition, but when I was living in Europe, I attended dozens of Roman Catholic Churches (which I prefer to more Protestant denominations, when a Lutheran or Anglican church isn’t around), and in a year, I only attended one church with any congregational singing, and it was a Spanish version of something like Kum-ba-ya accompanied by guitars.

As a rule, we Lutherans are have a high respect for music, with a wonderful musical tradition- the German Chorales, Bach’s organ music, great hymnody. People in Lutheran Churches are willing to actually sing robustly-- whether they hymnody, or the sanctus, or the angus dei.

Perhaps this seems too superficial of a reason, but it certainly makes a difference in how I encounter God in the context of worship, so I think that it is not insignificant.

Seems to me that your more interested in yourself, what makes you feel good, than you are at worshiping God in the Truth. There can only be ONE true Church, Jesus prayed HIS Church would be one. We go to Mass to worship Our Lord and if in the “State of Grace”, to receive Him in Holy Communion. If you really want to receive Our Lord, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, you have to have the valid ordination of the Priesthood, which Lutherans do not have. I suggest you to watch the program called “Journey Home”
on EWTN Catholic Cable network. It comes on Monday nights at 7 pm CST. The Catholic Church has the fullness of the Faith, why settle for less.

 

[Memaw]

Jay - you claim you live according to HIS word, but Jesus (Him) never specifically mentions abortion or homosexuality in the Bible. Since He is silent on these matters, how do you know what Jesus would think about those practices? Are you clairvoyant? Who is the HIM whose word you are living by?

If withholding sacraments from the people who need it the most (homosexuals and those facing the awful choice of abortion) is not bigotry, what is it? Spite? Do you think homosexuals choose to be that way? That has to be the hardest type of lifestyle, and they are obviously in need of spiritual support, yet many that share your views turn their backs on them. How Christ-like is that?

It saddens and sickens me that the supposed “One True Church” is more interested in forcing its views on all outsiders than showing compassion for those who most need it. Jesus Christ was the most compassionate of men, yet His supposed Church kicks out the very people who need Him most!!! You are so interested in pointing fingers and assigning blame that you lose sight of the tortured souls that you are trying to place outside the body of the Church.

Jesus was very specific about his requirements for salvation; John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” That is the real criteria for membership in the body of the Faith, not beliefs about abortion, homosexuality, or whether you have to wear long pants to church in the summer.

Indeed, the Word of God has some very Hard teachings, one of which is that, as stated in Matthew 6:14, one has to forgive other’s transgressions in order to be forgiven by God. It is sad that many are too busy condemning others to give much thought to understanding or forgiving them.

God Bless!

Someone has sold you a really sad bill of goods. Same old lies that have been going on for many years. I have to wonder if some people have ever heard of the Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor. Don’t “learn” what the Catholic Church teaches from her enemies, go to the Church herself to learn what she teaches.

 

[Primrose]

I am finding Catholism attractive the further on in my Christian walk I go. I’ve been a born again Christian for 6 years.

I’m not quite sure about praying to Mary and the saints as I feel I have a relationship with God and Jesus. I do understand that as you pray to Jesus as your intersessor that that is what Catholics pray to Mary and the saints. I’m open minded.

I pray in tongues but when I broach the subject with Catholic friends they look at me as if I have two heads. I know there is a charismatic section to the catholic church.

 

[Memaw]

I am finding Catholism attractive the further on in my Christian walk I go. I’ve been a born again Christian for 6 years.

I’m not quite sure about praying to Mary and the saints as I feel I have a relationship with God and Jesus. I do understand that as you pray to Jesus as your intersessor that that is what Catholics pray to Mary and the saints. I’m open minded.

I pray in tongues but when I broach the subject with Catholic friends they look at me as if I have two heads. I know there is a charismatic section to the catholic church.

Prayers for your journey! I hope you have someone helping you with your studies that can answer you questions.
Catholics pray to Jesus first and foremost. Don’t listen to anyone that tells you we put Mary and the Saints ahead of Jesus, thats just not true. Mary is His Mother and at the foot of the Cross, he gave her to us as our Mother. Talking, (praying) to Mary is no different than talking to your own Mother. She understands. We honor her for being the Mother of Our Savior. No one can love her more than Jesus did. I have never been involved in a charismatic group so I can’t say to much about that. I think it was a big thing in the 70s but has sorta settled down since then.

 

[jofa]

I tend to be a charismatic Catholic and I assure you the charismatic movement within the Catholic Church is growing. One of the best (most orthodox) Catholic universities, in my opinion, is Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio (I went there) and it is SO charismatic. We pray in tongues and have monthly “Festival of Praise”. That’s where I went through a Baptism of the Holy Spirit which was the first time I prayed and worshipped in tongues.
As for the question of veneration of the Virgin Mary: Well, is it possible for any human to honor Mary more than the honor God HEAPED on her by making her the mother of the CHRIST!!!
May the Holy Spirit be your guide on your faith journey!
jofa

 

[catholiconce]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **

Note: The first thread titled, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?” was closed because it had exceeded the maximum amount of posts (1,000). Continue your remarks on this topic, here.

I did not realize all protestant were alcholic and have had several marriages. How judgemental. Can you list on a percentage basis the number of each. ? Why the hatred? Why not spend more time worshiping the Lord and less time attacking others?

 

[jofa]

Hi catholiconce-
I understand your outrage re: that post you referred to. I think that he is speaking of his personal experience not of statistics, etc. - although I could be wrong.
I’m interested in knowing, if you feel like sharing, what the reasons were that caused you to leave the Catholic Church?
If you wouldn’t mind answering, could you also let me know if you believe you understood the teachings of the Church (before you left) and how the Church used scripture to support those teachings? I admit the few X-Catholics I’ve known have left for non-doctrinal reasons and that is not uncommon, so I understand how Catholics can start to assume it’s usually frivilous stuff and the people who leave didn’t know their faith to begin with. I personally have not met an X-Catholic that knew/understood the Church’s teachings before leaving Christ altogether or leaving for a non-Catholic denomination. That being said, I expect there are those who simply don’t agree with the interpretations of scripture that the Church teaches.
Anyway, I’d appreciate you’re (name removed by moderator)ut and experience on this issue if you are up to it!
In Christ,
jofa

 

[5pintLutheran]

Well, as you can see by my login name that I’m Lutheran (duh), so I guess you can say that I’m halfway or 3/4 the way to Rome, lol. Lemme see…

The real reason for me not being Roman Catholic…

1. Don’t agree with the sacrifice of the mass, even though I believe in the real presence (One sacrifice for all).
2. Can’t see concrete evidence for Purgatory in scripture, even though it’s been explained to me before.
3. Asking the saints for prayers. We don’t really know if they
   hear us or not.
4. Justification doctrine seems to be a little off to me, even though
   it’s been kindof explained to me.
5. Doctrine of Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix, etc…

That’s all I can think of right now. I know that some of these things probably haven’t been properly explained to me, but I’m still learning. Pax. :coffeeread: