M
mikew262
Guest
While maybe not meaning too, you tend to come across sometimes as condescending, as if giving a lecture to us wrong thinking folks.
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2
- Status
M
mikew262
Guest
Yes, Jesus IS the Truth, at least within Christianity. The Catholic Church does not have the monopoly on that Truth. It has it’s own interpretation of the Truth, but so does many other Christian denominations. I think most agree on some very basic truths surrounding Christ; he is the Son of God, that he died for our sins and that he arose from the dead. These are the foundations of Christianity, and what makes one a Christian, if he/she believe these foundations. IMO, whether you worship Christ as a Catholic or a Baptist is purely secondary. Until many more folks realize this, we will continue to have these petty squabbles between the various Christian “slices”.
M
mikew262
Guest
M
mikew262
Guest
I agree with your sentiment.
M
Memaw
Guest
I know some of you folks on here are Catholic but I just do not understand your attitude toward your Catholic Faith. While it would be very nice to all set around the campfire, holding hands singing Kum Ba Yah, I just don’t think thats what Jesus would want us to do. He said to go out and TEACH all Nations what I have TAUGHT you. Why do you think HE founded a Church, yes one Church, to teach what He taught them. I do not have any anger, hatred or dislike for those of other faiths. I do NOT think I am better than they are. I have my life struggles too. But If I don’t know anything else, I do know that the Catholic Church is the True Faith and I would want all I know and Love to know that too. and have the same opportunities of Grace that I have. The 7 Sacraments, the Mass and Holy Eucharist. Confession and Absolution for our sins. We can all still LOVE Our Lord with all our heart and have all HE has given us thru HIS Church too. While I am HAPPY they know and LOVE Jesus, I want so much more for them. Why can’t we all hope for the fullness of truth that Jesus has to offer us. It is HIS gift, not ours. Its what HE wants. If many non -catholics would just strip away the blinders, I think maybe more of them would see that and come home. Everything I have written on this or any other thread, I have written with love for my fellow man wither Christian or not. I do not apologize for being a strong, faithful Catholic. I wish the same for everybody.I thank God I was born a Catholic and don’t have to go thru all the struggles some do. I am also thankful for having had the opportunities I have had to learn, and there is still so much more to know. Its a lifetime adventure. God Bless. Memaw
J
joe370
Guest
Everything I have written on this or any other thread, I have written with love for my fellow man wither Christian or not. I do not apologize for being a strong, faithful Catholic. I wish the same for everybody. I thank God I was born a Catholic and don’t have to go thru all the struggles some do. I am also thankful for having had the opportunities I have had to learn, and there is still so much more to know. Its a lifetime adventure. God Bless. Memaw
Amen brother!!!
Amen brother!!!
G
guanophore
Guest
I agree it is hard to make the distinction in English. However, when we ask our brothers and sisters to intercede for us we don’t “ask at” them. It is a request for intercession. I hope we don’t pray “at” God either. Such a conception reminds me of the Pharisee in the temple who talked “at” God.**In Genesis 2Moses 20:5 and in Book of Revelation (what’s the short of that? book) Chapter 15 Verse 4 and 5:13b and on many other places, such as Math 4:10 we have the word – as we might find it in
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20050511_en.html**
as well (I hope).
In the Catechism we find the word in # 2097: To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the “nothingness of the creature” who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name. The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.
In the Book on Revelation we read again in 22:9 that no other person but God alone is to be prayed at – no Angel an not the holiest of all Holies, Mother of Jesus, Mary.
When we pray the Ave Maria or Rosary, we do not …(whatever)… at Maria, but we …(whatever)…
Surely now you know what I mean – but I still don’t know he right word
There must certainly be two different expressions in English too of course.
Just let’s find the two expressions and everybody is happy. Might be “praying at” is right with Mary, but then the other word is relevant in reference to God.
J
joe370
Guest
**
This has always been my hope. I have many friends who aren’t Christians and they are very good people, and they certainly deserve to go to heaven!
However, I have a few friends who deride Jesus every chance they get—die hard atheists who deny the existence of a divine beings. There are agnostics, who believe it’s impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrain from commitment to any religious doctrine; Infidels, any unbeliever, especially a non-believer in Islam or Christianity; and skeptics who doubt religion in general, erring to the side of science —and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds. The big question is, if salvation is free for all these people regardless of their unrepented bad deeds —killers, rapists, thieves etc. etc.–then apparently —Jesus died for nothing, and as most of my atheists friends believe, the bible is therefore “a product of the creative and inventive imagination of mere men and women —not God. To them, science holds all the answers, and the answers they don’t have now, will eventually manifest themselves in the future.”
If Jesus is real, and I think He is, then the following passages seem to oppose your poll:
"And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you knothew Him, and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me,
Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:6-9)
For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, “Lord, evermore give us this bread.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
"Jesus therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.” (John 10:7-11)
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” (John 11:21-27)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16-18)
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
**Those who are inclined to be more stiff-necked are evangelical Protestants as well as such
non-Protestants as Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and such - and, I hesitate to add, many who post their extreme views here on Catholic Answers Forum. **
All those stiff-necked opinions notwithstanding, the Bible, codified, canonized and safeguarded by the C.C. for 2000 years, still, clearly states that Jesus is the only way: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me."
**So many topics to comment on. Just two, briefly.
**
I have exhaustively researched the subject of mithraism. The following link is an accurate assessment. Atheists often claim that Christianity (not just Catholicism) is a lie; a product mithraism.
tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
If Jesus can turn water into wine, walk on water, defy gravity, defy death, raise the dead, create the universe, I’m pretty sure He can turn bread and wine into His flesh and blood, and it is very biblical. When Jesus said I am the door, the 1st century people never questioned His metaphorical device as they did in John 6!
“Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me[a] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:7-10
To be continued…
Code:
Hi Joe and others:
A couple quick points on a busy day, each relevant to why all Christians don't embrace Catholicism.
Contrary to your assertion, **mainline Protestants don't ****consider their denominations the 'true church'**. Did you see the recent Pew poll? I believe 83% of mainline Protestants believe people can attain salvation apart from Christianity. I was encouraged and proud to find that - what was it? 79% of US Catholics said the same. In other words, the vast majority of mainline Protestants and Catholics agree that their faith is not the only faith that is acceptable to God.However, I have a few friends who deride Jesus every chance they get—die hard atheists who deny the existence of a divine beings. There are agnostics, who believe it’s impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrain from commitment to any religious doctrine; Infidels, any unbeliever, especially a non-believer in Islam or Christianity; and skeptics who doubt religion in general, erring to the side of science —and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds. The big question is, if salvation is free for all these people regardless of their unrepented bad deeds —killers, rapists, thieves etc. etc.–then apparently —Jesus died for nothing, and as most of my atheists friends believe, the bible is therefore “a product of the creative and inventive imagination of mere men and women —not God. To them, science holds all the answers, and the answers they don’t have now, will eventually manifest themselves in the future.”
If Jesus is real, and I think He is, then the following passages seem to oppose your poll:
"And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you knothew Him, and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me,
Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" (John 14:6-9)
For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, “Lord, evermore give us this bread.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
"Jesus therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.” (John 10:7-11)
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” (John 11:21-27)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16-18)
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
**Those who are inclined to be more stiff-necked are evangelical Protestants as well as such
non-Protestants as Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and such - and, I hesitate to add, many who post their extreme views here on Catholic Answers Forum. **
All those stiff-necked opinions notwithstanding, the Bible, codified, canonized and safeguarded by the C.C. for 2000 years, still, clearly states that Jesus is the only way: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me."
**So many topics to comment on. Just two, briefly.
Code:
(1)For most Protestants a major stumbling block in Catholicism is the teaching that the wine and bread become the actual blood and body of Christ**. They regard this as outright superstition that people centuries ago found it easy to believe (other religions were teaching similar ideas, e. g., Mithraism, a major 'rival' of early Christianity). Christ spoke in metaphors often ("I am the door") and they regard the texts re drinking his blood and eating his body as symbolic. Otherwise, the whole idea simply repulses many.I have exhaustively researched the subject of mithraism. The following link is an accurate assessment. Atheists often claim that Christianity (not just Catholicism) is a lie; a product mithraism.
tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
If Jesus can turn water into wine, walk on water, defy gravity, defy death, raise the dead, create the universe, I’m pretty sure He can turn bread and wine into His flesh and blood, and it is very biblical. When Jesus said I am the door, the 1st century people never questioned His metaphorical device as they did in John 6!
“Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me[a] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:7-10
To be continued…
G
guanophore
Guest
Do you think it represents an implication that people are making “excuses” for not being Catholic? If not, what about it do you find annoying?
G
guanophore
Guest
Such a belief would not be consistent with Catholic belief, and therefore, to that extent, the person holding to such a belief would not be Catholic in their thinking.
Such speculations and discussions may “not matter” to you, but to others, they may make a great difference to our lives in Christ.
It is incumbent upon us to grow in acceptance for one another, even when others have different values.
This is fairly simple, really, if one accepts the Gospel accounts. Jesus came into our world, in a little town called Bethlehem. He is God incarnate, and through Him, Truth was revealed to us. Is it problematic to be obsessive about that? I mean, if one is focused on Jesus as the ultimate Truth, can one really go off track?
If one is on an erroneous path, because one has built a foundation on error, then one can only move forward into more error.
J
joe370
Guest
…Saint John, New Testament Chapter Six…
This chapter is so important in explaining the “true presence” of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Following is a verse by verse explanation. If you read the whole chapter, you will not find any verse indicating that Jesus was speaking figuratively, or in parables. He was speaking literally as the context of the chapter plainly shows. One of the basic rules of Bible interpretation is, if something is said only once in Scripture, it might be taken figuratively, but if it is repeated three times, it is to be taken literally. Jesus repeated His message in John Chapter six, nine different ways, or nine times.
The key verses are indicated here…
The key verses are indicated here…
Vs 1-15, Jesus demonstrated the need to feed the body, by the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. In later verses He will show the need to feed the spiritual soul as well, with His very own Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Just as the life of the body is in the blood, Lev 11:17, so the life of the spiritual soul is in the body and blood of Jesus Christ, John 6:54. Vs 24-25, these verses show that Jesus was speaking to all of the people, who represent all of us and not just to the Jews, or His disciples. Vs 32-33, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of GOD is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” Note! Moses and the bread in this verse, refer to the manna in the desert as shown in Exodus 16:14-31. The manna is a “type” of the “antitype” of the “true bread from heaven” which is the true Body of Christ. You can read about “types” and “typology” in 1Corinthians 10:1-11, Hebrews 9:9, 11:19. Never does an Old Testament “type” point to a New Testament symbol, but always to a vastly superior reality. The word “Amen” is a Greek word (amen) of Hebrew origin, which, at the beginning of a discourse means, “certainly”, “surely”, “truly.” “of a truth,” “so be it”? When used as a prefix by Jesus Christ, it is to emphasize that it is a solemn statement, and is of utmost importance. Now, what do you suppose He meant when He emphasized twice, by using a double “Amen”, a “Truly, truly”? Do you “truly, truly” believe what He said in this verse? Is there any room for symbolism in these verses whatsoever? Vs 35, Jesus said, “…I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” This is the first of two verses that non-Catholics use to “prove” that Jesus was speaking figuratively for the whole chapter. “He who believes in Me shall never thirst”, means to believe in what He said. If anyone denies what He said, he does not believe in Him. In order to support this belief, they have to show that Jesus also spoke figuratively in Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, and Lk 22:19-20, where He said “This is my Body.” Also St. Paul must have spoken figuratively in 1Cor 10:16, and 1Cor 11:23-30. Yet, in none of these verses is there a shred of evidence to support their belief in figurative speech. Apparently they close their eyes to 1Cor 11:29, “…for he who eats and drinks unworthily, without distinguishing the body, eats and drinks judgement to himself.” How could anyone bring judgement upon himself if it is only a symbol?
Vs 41, already the Jews have begun to doubt Him.
Vs 43, Jesus knew they were doubting when He said, “Murmur not among yourselves.” Vs 47, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, he who believes in Me has life everlasting.” He told them that the ones, who believe what He is saying, have everlasting life. If I want everlasting life, I have to believe Him because He said it. He is truth, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life”, John 14:6. If I choose not to believe His words here, then I am guilty of 1John 5:10… “He who believes in the Son of GOD has the testimony of GOD in himself. He who does not believe the Son, makes him a liar; because he does not believe the witness that GOD has borne concerning his Son.” Vs 48, A second time Jesus said, “I am that bread of life.” Vs 49, “Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness and they are dead.” This is because the manna was only a type, the symbol of the reality which was to come. Vs 50, “This is the bread which comes down from Heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.” We know that all of us will die physically, but Jesus meant the eternal life of the spiritual soul. Vs 51, Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from Heaven, if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Did He say the bread is a “symbol” of His flesh, or did He say it is my flesh? Vs 52, the Jews doubt even more as they said, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” Isn’t this what non-believers in the “True Presence” say today? Vs 53, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” The very next verse 54 says that those who eat the flesh of the Son of Man do have everlasting life. How then, can these verses be symbolic? Interestingly, Weymouth’s Modern Speech New Testament translates the first words of this verse as: “In most solemn truth, I tell you…” The context for this verse is the same as for the previous examples in this chapter. Here we have yet another “Truly, truly”. Why do people repeat themselves at all? They do it for a purpose, in order to drive home a very important point! What would Jesus have had to say to make his words any more clear than what He actually said? Then why do some say “Truly, truly, in this verse, He
was only speaking symbolically”? If this verse is to be taken only symbolically, then the previous verses, John 6:32-33 and 6:47, must be treated in the same context, as being only a symbolic gesture as well. If that is the case, then we have a domino effect working throughout Scripture. All verses with the same meaning of John 6:47, “believe in Christ and you have life everlasting”, must be only symbolic as well, which would imply that everlasting life is beyond our reach! Some well known, and well used verses with the same, or very similar meaning are, John 3:15-16,18, 5:24, 6:40, 8:24, and 20:31, Acts 13:48, and 16:31, Romans 10:9-11, 1Timothy 1:16, and 4:10, 2Timothy 1:1, and 1John 5:13. It is to be noted that some Protestant Bibles use the word “Verily”, instead of “Amen”, in the verses shown above. Verily means, “in truth”, or “with confidence”. However, in the Greek text the word used is Amen. Not only do we have the double “amen” for solemn emphasis in this verse, but we also have the keyword “unless”. Have you ever noticed that when Jesus used the word “unless”, it was accompanied by a dire warning that His word must be obeyed, “Or you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven”, or similar wording? Matthew 5:20, “…Unless your justice exceeds that of the Scribes and the Pharisees…” Matthew 18:3, “…Unless you turn and become like little children…” Luke 13:3, 5, “…Unless you repent…” John 3:3, “…Unless a man be born again…” John 3:5, “…Unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit…” John 6:53, "…Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you, (implied, “no life everlasting”, as shown by the very next verse, John 6:54), “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life everlasting and I will raise him up on the last day”. The Greek word for “life” used in John 6:53, is “zoen” (zoen) which means, “divine life of GOD imparted to us.” There are other Greek words for “life” that St. John could have chosen, such as “bios” (bios). Why then did he choose “zoen” instead, other than to emphasize the fact that it really is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ? I have shown three powerful words in this one verse, amen, unless, and the Greek zoen for life. Each word by itself is sufficient to show the literal sense of this verse and without so much as a hint of symbolism. All three of these words collectively, in one verse, show that there is not the slightest possibility of symbolism whatsoever in John 6:53.
This chapter is so important in explaining the “true presence” of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Following is a verse by verse explanation. If you read the whole chapter, you will not find any verse indicating that Jesus was speaking figuratively, or in parables. He was speaking literally as the context of the chapter plainly shows. One of the basic rules of Bible interpretation is, if something is said only once in Scripture, it might be taken figuratively, but if it is repeated three times, it is to be taken literally. Jesus repeated His message in John Chapter six, nine different ways, or nine times.
The key verses are indicated here…
The key verses are indicated here…
Vs 1-15, Jesus demonstrated the need to feed the body, by the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. In later verses He will show the need to feed the spiritual soul as well, with His very own Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Just as the life of the body is in the blood, Lev 11:17, so the life of the spiritual soul is in the body and blood of Jesus Christ, John 6:54. Vs 24-25, these verses show that Jesus was speaking to all of the people, who represent all of us and not just to the Jews, or His disciples. Vs 32-33, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of GOD is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” Note! Moses and the bread in this verse, refer to the manna in the desert as shown in Exodus 16:14-31. The manna is a “type” of the “antitype” of the “true bread from heaven” which is the true Body of Christ. You can read about “types” and “typology” in 1Corinthians 10:1-11, Hebrews 9:9, 11:19. Never does an Old Testament “type” point to a New Testament symbol, but always to a vastly superior reality. The word “Amen” is a Greek word (amen) of Hebrew origin, which, at the beginning of a discourse means, “certainly”, “surely”, “truly.” “of a truth,” “so be it”? When used as a prefix by Jesus Christ, it is to emphasize that it is a solemn statement, and is of utmost importance. Now, what do you suppose He meant when He emphasized twice, by using a double “Amen”, a “Truly, truly”? Do you “truly, truly” believe what He said in this verse? Is there any room for symbolism in these verses whatsoever? Vs 35, Jesus said, “…I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” This is the first of two verses that non-Catholics use to “prove” that Jesus was speaking figuratively for the whole chapter. “He who believes in Me shall never thirst”, means to believe in what He said. If anyone denies what He said, he does not believe in Him. In order to support this belief, they have to show that Jesus also spoke figuratively in Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, and Lk 22:19-20, where He said “This is my Body.” Also St. Paul must have spoken figuratively in 1Cor 10:16, and 1Cor 11:23-30. Yet, in none of these verses is there a shred of evidence to support their belief in figurative speech. Apparently they close their eyes to 1Cor 11:29, “…for he who eats and drinks unworthily, without distinguishing the body, eats and drinks judgement to himself.” How could anyone bring judgement upon himself if it is only a symbol?
Vs 41, already the Jews have begun to doubt Him.
Vs 43, Jesus knew they were doubting when He said, “Murmur not among yourselves.” Vs 47, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, he who believes in Me has life everlasting.” He told them that the ones, who believe what He is saying, have everlasting life. If I want everlasting life, I have to believe Him because He said it. He is truth, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life”, John 14:6. If I choose not to believe His words here, then I am guilty of 1John 5:10… “He who believes in the Son of GOD has the testimony of GOD in himself. He who does not believe the Son, makes him a liar; because he does not believe the witness that GOD has borne concerning his Son.” Vs 48, A second time Jesus said, “I am that bread of life.” Vs 49, “Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness and they are dead.” This is because the manna was only a type, the symbol of the reality which was to come. Vs 50, “This is the bread which comes down from Heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.” We know that all of us will die physically, but Jesus meant the eternal life of the spiritual soul. Vs 51, Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from Heaven, if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Did He say the bread is a “symbol” of His flesh, or did He say it is my flesh? Vs 52, the Jews doubt even more as they said, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” Isn’t this what non-believers in the “True Presence” say today? Vs 53, Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” The very next verse 54 says that those who eat the flesh of the Son of Man do have everlasting life. How then, can these verses be symbolic? Interestingly, Weymouth’s Modern Speech New Testament translates the first words of this verse as: “In most solemn truth, I tell you…” The context for this verse is the same as for the previous examples in this chapter. Here we have yet another “Truly, truly”. Why do people repeat themselves at all? They do it for a purpose, in order to drive home a very important point! What would Jesus have had to say to make his words any more clear than what He actually said? Then why do some say “Truly, truly, in this verse, He
was only speaking symbolically”? If this verse is to be taken only symbolically, then the previous verses, John 6:32-33 and 6:47, must be treated in the same context, as being only a symbolic gesture as well. If that is the case, then we have a domino effect working throughout Scripture. All verses with the same meaning of John 6:47, “believe in Christ and you have life everlasting”, must be only symbolic as well, which would imply that everlasting life is beyond our reach! Some well known, and well used verses with the same, or very similar meaning are, John 3:15-16,18, 5:24, 6:40, 8:24, and 20:31, Acts 13:48, and 16:31, Romans 10:9-11, 1Timothy 1:16, and 4:10, 2Timothy 1:1, and 1John 5:13. It is to be noted that some Protestant Bibles use the word “Verily”, instead of “Amen”, in the verses shown above. Verily means, “in truth”, or “with confidence”. However, in the Greek text the word used is Amen. Not only do we have the double “amen” for solemn emphasis in this verse, but we also have the keyword “unless”. Have you ever noticed that when Jesus used the word “unless”, it was accompanied by a dire warning that His word must be obeyed, “Or you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven”, or similar wording? Matthew 5:20, “…Unless your justice exceeds that of the Scribes and the Pharisees…” Matthew 18:3, “…Unless you turn and become like little children…” Luke 13:3, 5, “…Unless you repent…” John 3:3, “…Unless a man be born again…” John 3:5, “…Unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit…” John 6:53, "…Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you, (implied, “no life everlasting”, as shown by the very next verse, John 6:54), “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life everlasting and I will raise him up on the last day”. The Greek word for “life” used in John 6:53, is “zoen” (zoen) which means, “divine life of GOD imparted to us.” There are other Greek words for “life” that St. John could have chosen, such as “bios” (bios). Why then did he choose “zoen” instead, other than to emphasize the fact that it really is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ? I have shown three powerful words in this one verse, amen, unless, and the Greek zoen for life. Each word by itself is sufficient to show the literal sense of this verse and without so much as a hint of symbolism. All three of these words collectively, in one verse, show that there is not the slightest possibility of symbolism whatsoever in John 6:53.
J
joe370
Guest
…Vs 54, “Whoever eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up on the last day.” Did He say to eat the symbol of His flesh? Vs 55,** Jesus said, “For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.”** Vs 56, Jesus said, “He that eats My flesh and drinks My blood dwells in Me, and I in him.” Did He say, ‘He that eats a symbol of My flesh…’. How can a mere symbol fulfil this promise? Does only a symbol of Christ dwell in us? I thought GOD Himself dwelt within us, 1John 4:12-13. Vs 59, This verse shows that Jesus taught this discourse to all the people. Vs 60, They doubt a third time when many disciples said, “This is a hard saying, who can hear it”? The Jews were instilled by many Old Testament verses, admonishing them not to consume blood. See Deut 12:23, Lev 17:11and 14. They must have thought this was something akin to cannibalism. At any point did Jesus back down? Explain to me, if this chapter is symbolic, why did He not explain the symbolism to them? Vs 61, Jesus did not back down, for He said, “Does this offend you?” He knew their thoughts and He certainly knew the Old Testament verses about the consumption of blood. In the next verse, He separated spiritual things from earthly things. Vs 63, Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing. The words I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.” Did He say He was speaking figuratively or in parables? This is the second verse detractors use to try to “prove” that Jesus spoke figuratively for the whole chapter. Did Jesus say “My” flesh? No, He said “the” flesh. What Jesus had said was, that we cannot accept this mystery if we accept it in too human a way, by having an earthly view of things. Those who can only think of cannibalism, are they not having an earthly view? See John 3:6, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Verse 63 means that we should not have a carnal human understanding of His words, but a spiritual understanding. Romans 8:1-13 explains what “the flesh” means very nicely… “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those
who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh - for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.” I count that the term, “the flesh” is used twelve times in those verses of Romans 8 Mark 14:38, “Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” More on the Spirit and the flesh: 1Corinthians 2:10 to 1Corinthians 3:3, "God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit. The non-spiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men?"** He who take**s, --“It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh; profits nothing” (Improperly meaning the flesh of Jesus), as an excuse for denying the “True Presence”, is denying the incarnation and humanity of Jesus Christ. To believe that Jesus’ flesh profits nothing, literally or metaphorically is a cosmic slap in the face to our one and only savior Jesus Christ! It is interesting that those who take John Chapter six as being completely figurative also take this one verse by itself and call it literal, and all the while calling all of the other verses around it figurative, or symbolic. Also, if “The flesh profits nothing” is taken figuratively, meaning the “symbolism” of the flesh of Jesus (“His dieing on the cross”), then Jesus died for nothing!!! Anyone who says that Jesus Christ meant these verses to be figurative is also breaking at least three basic rules of Bible interpretation. “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh; profits nothing” --simply, accurately and incontrovertibly means what it says: Our flesh, not Jesus’ profits nothing, for we are mortal sinners and we don’t deserve our spiritual bodies, by Gods standards!!! (The Spirit is willing, the flesh is weak) We all fall short of the glory. Our flesh is perishable; Jesus’ immortal flesh wasn’t, due to the obvious fact that he was, is and always will be GOD, sinless and WAS assumed bodily. When Jesus sadly died on the cross for us, He wiped the slate clean, allowing GOD, His FATHER to forgive everyone, past, present and future of their sins if they repent and eat of His Sons Spiritual (not carnal) flesh and drink of His Spiritual (not carnal) blood equipping them with the Spirit of eternal life. Without Jesus’ infinite sacrifice and love for mankind, flesh would have continued to “profit nothing” and the Spirit would be totally unattainable again! Again, if Peter, the rest of the Apostles and Christ’s fledgling Church believed in the literal and not the symbolical, shouldn’t we all follow suit! Let us all live by the example of the ones WHO WERE CLOSEST TO JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE GRACED US WITH HIS PRESENCE HERE ON EARTH! AND —Vs 64, Jesus said, “But there are some of you who believe not.” Jesus knew from the beginning who they were, and who should betray Him. This is the first time Jesus alludes to Judas, as the betrayer. Vs 66, and now look what happens in John 6:66… “From that time many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him.” Did He call them back and say, “Hey I was just kidding, it is only a parable”? No He did not, for in the next verse, He did just the opposite. He would have let them all go. Should we walk away too? Interestingly, the Jews knew exactly what He was saying. If they thought it was only a symbol, then why would they walk away? **If they thought He had spoken only symbolically, then why did they not ask Him to explain it to them as they had done many times before? **This verse does not apply to the Jews only. It applies to all of us to this day who reject the True Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Vs 67, Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” Right here, He would have let them ALL go for not believing what He had said, and He did not offer any further explanation. Vs 68, interestingly it was Simon Peter who answered, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” Have you ever wondered why Simon Peter is usually the spokesman for the Apostles?
Vs 69, Simon Peter continued, “We believe and are sure that you are that Christ, the Son of the living GOD.” The Apostles believed Him. They did not walk away from Him as the Jews had done. Why do so many non-Catholics follow in the footsteps of the 1st century Jews in verse 66, and not follow the Apostles in verse 69?
who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh - for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.” I count that the term, “the flesh” is used twelve times in those verses of Romans 8 Mark 14:38, “Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” More on the Spirit and the flesh: 1Corinthians 2:10 to 1Corinthians 3:3, "God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit. The non-spiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men?"** He who take**s, --“It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh; profits nothing” (Improperly meaning the flesh of Jesus), as an excuse for denying the “True Presence”, is denying the incarnation and humanity of Jesus Christ. To believe that Jesus’ flesh profits nothing, literally or metaphorically is a cosmic slap in the face to our one and only savior Jesus Christ! It is interesting that those who take John Chapter six as being completely figurative also take this one verse by itself and call it literal, and all the while calling all of the other verses around it figurative, or symbolic. Also, if “The flesh profits nothing” is taken figuratively, meaning the “symbolism” of the flesh of Jesus (“His dieing on the cross”), then Jesus died for nothing!!! Anyone who says that Jesus Christ meant these verses to be figurative is also breaking at least three basic rules of Bible interpretation. “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh; profits nothing” --simply, accurately and incontrovertibly means what it says: Our flesh, not Jesus’ profits nothing, for we are mortal sinners and we don’t deserve our spiritual bodies, by Gods standards!!! (The Spirit is willing, the flesh is weak) We all fall short of the glory. Our flesh is perishable; Jesus’ immortal flesh wasn’t, due to the obvious fact that he was, is and always will be GOD, sinless and WAS assumed bodily. When Jesus sadly died on the cross for us, He wiped the slate clean, allowing GOD, His FATHER to forgive everyone, past, present and future of their sins if they repent and eat of His Sons Spiritual (not carnal) flesh and drink of His Spiritual (not carnal) blood equipping them with the Spirit of eternal life. Without Jesus’ infinite sacrifice and love for mankind, flesh would have continued to “profit nothing” and the Spirit would be totally unattainable again! Again, if Peter, the rest of the Apostles and Christ’s fledgling Church believed in the literal and not the symbolical, shouldn’t we all follow suit! Let us all live by the example of the ones WHO WERE CLOSEST TO JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE GRACED US WITH HIS PRESENCE HERE ON EARTH! AND —Vs 64, Jesus said, “But there are some of you who believe not.” Jesus knew from the beginning who they were, and who should betray Him. This is the first time Jesus alludes to Judas, as the betrayer. Vs 66, and now look what happens in John 6:66… “From that time many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him.” Did He call them back and say, “Hey I was just kidding, it is only a parable”? No He did not, for in the next verse, He did just the opposite. He would have let them all go. Should we walk away too? Interestingly, the Jews knew exactly what He was saying. If they thought it was only a symbol, then why would they walk away? **If they thought He had spoken only symbolically, then why did they not ask Him to explain it to them as they had done many times before? **This verse does not apply to the Jews only. It applies to all of us to this day who reject the True Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Vs 67, Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” Right here, He would have let them ALL go for not believing what He had said, and He did not offer any further explanation. Vs 68, interestingly it was Simon Peter who answered, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” Have you ever wondered why Simon Peter is usually the spokesman for the Apostles?
Vs 69, Simon Peter continued, “We believe and are sure that you are that Christ, the Son of the living GOD.” The Apostles believed Him. They did not walk away from Him as the Jews had done. Why do so many non-Catholics follow in the footsteps of the 1st century Jews in verse 66, and not follow the Apostles in verse 69?
J
joe370
Guest
…To capsulize, in verses 33, 35,47,48,50,51,53,55, and 56, Jesus said it is literal what I am telling you. In verses 41,43,52,60, and 64, the Jews doubt, and grumble, and murmur, and in verse 66, they, and many others to this day, walked away from Him and never came back. Did He call them back to say this was only a parable, and explain the meaning of it to them, as he had explained many other parables? No, for in verse 67, He would have let them ALL go, had they all not believed. Show me another group of verses in Scripture in which the whole context is figurative, and yet one verse in the middle (as in vs. 63 in John 6) is to be taken literally? Doing that goes against the rules of proper Bible interpretation. Should we walk away as the 1st century Jews did in John 6:66, or should we follow in the footsteps of Simon Peter when he said in verse 69, “We believe…”?
H
Hisalone
Guest
It presupposes that there are no legitimate reasons for not being Catholic.
There is an arrogance that Catholics display over and over again when they lay out their positions, this is a case in point.
L
Lisdogan
Guest
I agree whole-heartedly that this is a lifetime adventure! The Hindus say that you have three parts to your life: growing up, being an adult with a family and business, and then letting go and turning inside to meditate on things that really matter (sanyassi). I am in the third phase, although of course the world is too much with me! And I cannot go wandering off as a naked sadhu in the midst of Pretoria. Too awful for words.
It is a struggle to convert to Catholicism - I have just done so. Much more difficult than being born a cradle-Catholic. However I was born a cradle-Baptist (Canadian), and bring with me positive understandings that may help me in my Catholic faith.
My concern for you is that you are not a quester, someone who is set out to learn on a life-time adventure. You are rather an apostle for the Catholic faith. You say yourself that you know the truth. In that condition, it is hard to really learn, to try hard to understand objectively the meaning, principles and ‘truths’ of other religions, Christian or not. (I spent lots of time in Japanese shrines, Buddhist temples and Moslem mosques throughout Asia and Africa, during small bits of time I had during my professional work.) One thing I am sure of: wherever people of whatever faith come to find their god - in order to worship, bringing their hopes, their fears, their sorrows, their terrors and gratitude - that is a holy place, beloved of our Creator. For each of those places is a place of mankinds’ highest dreams.
So if you put your commitment to Catholicism in your right pocket and travel with it, you may learn how it relates to other belief systems. If you cannot, then you must be an apostle for your faith, as you are already.
In Christ,
L
Lisdogan
Guest
Without a list of all the things that a Catholic must believe in, it is hard to be a truly proper Catholic, ne? People refer to what a Catholic must believe to be the truth; I vowed earlier this week that I would do my best, to do my duty, to the Catholic Church. But no one has been able to give me that list which must be derived from millions of pages of interpretation, divine guidance (or prevarication from Satan), Jewish commentaries, the Tradition of the Church, and the profound observations of the Communion of Saints inter alia.
So one does one’s best to sort through and keep an appropriate balance between the ‘musts’, and what is appropriately acceptable to a practising Catholic Christian in a tough world. Not CCC.
I could not agree more, and it is this acceptance that is the core of this thread, I think.
There is a lot out there far beyond a little town called Bethlehem, and the one we know as our Son of God and Man, Redeemer. Look up into the universe/multiverse above you: what is man that God should be mindful of him? In my spiritual quest, ‘God Creator and Abba Father’ have become real because I understand not because I have been told. Jesus of Nazareth, his divine son, is not a figment of someone’s imagination, or the design of an early Christian culture, but truly the ‘Son of God and Man’. This I understand, from reading, thinking, listening, learning and understanding.
I shall put on this thread a wonderful story of the spider’s universe that illustrates this point: we do not know what is out there in other parts of the multiverse, but it is possible to understand our own. And to do that, we must learn to understand, not learn by rote. We must learn to think, and think to learn.
I agree one must make absolutely sure that one’s foundation is as far as possible without error, and then one can move forward into the sublime.
In Christ
M
mikew262
Guest
Probably because many feel there is more to Christianity than just being a Catholic. It has a condescending tone to any Christian who happens not to be Catholic.
M
Memaw
Guest
I hope everyone on this thread reads and rereads your posts until they understand why we cherish our Catholic Faith and our belief in the TRUE presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. And why we know the importance of Apostolic succession. Why settle for symbols when you can have the TRUTH. Why settle for self interpretation, yours or anyones else’s, when you can have the Catholic Church, thru the HOLY SPIRIT, guiding you in the true interpretation of Sacred Scripture.
The question at the beginning of this thread IS very important, Why do you settle for less, if you are a Christian, why NOT become a Catholic and have the fullness of the TRUTH that Jesus has taught. What is the real reason? Is it pride, stubbornness, spiritual blindness, family ties, etc,etc,etc. Have you fallen for all the lies thrown at the Catholic Church? Is that more important than the TRUTH? If you really have Jesus first and foremost in your life, don’t you want to know Him in the fullness of HIS Truth? . Why settle for less. You all have heard the truth expressed on this thread, many times, don’t you think its worth the time and effort to find out for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. Please, don’t listen to Her enimies!! Is your opinion more important that what Christ wants for us.? I hope not. The Catholic Church has come thru many trials and struggles in the past 2,000 years and has continued to teach the fullness of the TRUTH thru it all. That ought to count for something. Only the Holy Spirit could have brought Her thru all that she has endured. And still have all the truths Jesus taught held in her bosom. Sincerely think about it, PRAY about it, if possible, go to a Catholic Church and set there with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and talk to HIM from your heart. Isn’t it worth all you can do to find out where the real TRUTH is. God Bless, Memaw.
M
mikew262
Guest
I guess I’m just a bit more open-minded than you are concerning worshiping God. I’m a cradle Catholic who goes to church every Sunday. Staying a Catholic has been my decision on how I want to worship God. Yes, I have some concerns about some of the Church’s teachings, but for the most part I’m comfortable with it, its what I know. However, I try not to judge how others have chosen to worship God, sometimes I fail in that regard I admit. As somebody else mentioned in their post, God may not give a hoot how somebody worships him or what denomination they are, just as long as they are sincere in that belief and try to live out his teachings the best they can. Now I haven’t completely bought into that thought, but it is something to think about. All Christian faiths lay claim to the Holy Spirit being their guide, who am I or you to dispute that unless we know God’s thoughts. I certainly can’t claim that.
You are very devout in your Catholic faith and probably a better “Catholic” than I. I’m happy for you and nobody is asking you to alter that. Be happy with your faith, but also try to acknowledge that as happy as you are with your brand of Christian worship, somebody else is just as happy with theirs (Christian or not) and just as sincere that they are following the Truth. Who is to say Christ is not happy with both of you? IMO, what may displease him is the infighting that goes on between the faiths.
Yes, it’s a lifetime adventure and once that adventure ends, we all hope to end up in the same place, although some of the roads we took to get there may be a little different.
M
Memaw
Guest
While I haven’t had the experiences you have, what makes you think I am not a quester? While I don’t question the sincerity of those of other faiths, at least some of them, I do still know and understand sincerity is not always enough. Becoming a Catholic doesn’t mean you have to abandon what you have already learned in your previous faith. It means you must let yourself be guided by the Catholic Church in your understanding of it and grow in the teaching of the Catholic Church. Just because I say I know the Catholic Church is the fullness of TRUTH, what makes you think I am not still learning? I am not the fullness of truth, even tho I know the Catholic Church is. If I sound more like a teacher than a learner, well I have taught for over 20 years, but believe me I have learned sooo much more in the process. I hope I can continue to be both for the rest of my life. God Bless, Memaw.
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