Lisdogan;3892358:
Some believe that Christ founded the universal Christian church, of which the Catholic Church is part, along with many other denominations.
The universal Church of Christ was not originally designated the ‘Catholic Church’, because that name did not exist for some decades.
If you think the claim is ‘ridiculous’ then perhaps it is up to you - for a change - to provide proof of your claim.
The burden of proof is on you since you are making the claim that Jesus established the C.C. as well as other denomination circa 33A.D.
I did not say that, and you can read my statement again.
Every single church, protestant,non-Catholic, non-denominational —what ever they go by nominally (outside the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church) can only trace its origin back to a mere-man, and that is a fact! --Not to Jesus; Not to the Apostles!
Every Church whose members come to God through Christ, and believe in Him was founded by Jesus. He is the rock, the firm foundation on which they stand. They may stand in different positions, they may stand looking in different directions, but they are all His.
You name the church and I will provide you with its founder and when it was founded. The bible states unequivocally that Jesus Christ built one church, and it went by the name catholic as early as A.D. 110:
I have seen this argument before, and it is not interesting actually. I know you can name the men/women. And there are still Christian Churches being founded every day - in Africa principally by charismatics from Ghana and Nigeria who are spreading their faith across the continent.
My reading, as opposed to your reading, says that Christ established His Church, and that men starting with Peter have organised it, set out its theology and liturgy, and kept it running. Perhaps that Church is the core or trunk of the universal church of Christ. Other men, arguably just as inspired by God through Christ, challenged the ‘truth’ and manifestations of that ‘truth’, and moved towards what they considered a faith more reflective of Christ’s nature, mission and message. We might call these the branches of the tree.
When one wears a shirt with pink, purple and blue spots, the shirt is still a shirt.
Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards ‘Catholic,’ its original meaning was ‘universal’ or ‘general.’ . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, **we find it **conveying the suggestion ****
that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1).
Thank you for this reference: I shall follow it up. I have not heard of Kelly.
The Lutheran church is the oldest protestant church. Lutheranism is a major branch of Western Christianity that identifies with the teachings of the sixteenth-century German reformer Martin Luther.
Luther’s efforts to reform the theology and practice of the Roman Catholic Church launched the Protestant Reformation and, though it was not his original intention, left Western Christianity forever divided.
This sounds like a quote from a history book, and I think that most of us are aware of the stories about Luther and the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation. I am not sure that it is accurate to say that the Lutheran Church is the ‘oldest’ protestant church, as there were others who protested against the church long before Luther set up his major disagreement.
Some argue that the Church of England existed very soon after the crucifixion, through Paul, and that it only came into contact with Rome in the 6th century (Augustine). Some of them were quashed as heretical, others still survive although in very fragile forms.
Jesus said his Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that “a city set on a hill cannot be hid” (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.
Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.
Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.
