If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[mikew262]

You DO have a vivid imagination, have you ever thought of writing horror stories ?

Stop with the sarcasm. Right or wrong, he obviously feels very sincere. A non-Catholic could say the same about you and the devoutness you have for the CC. :tsktsk:

 

[mikew262]

No, mikew, we do not "believe we have all the basics in common. I think it is clear from bftb’s posts that he does not believe he shares anything in common with Catholics. He has called us swine, hypocrites, pharisees and deceivers. Clearly he does not want to be related with such persons.

Oh c’mon now, almost all Christians have the basics in common. Obviously, he is wrong, he shares more than he thinks.

• Christ is the Son of God
• He died for our sins.
• He rose again in 3 days.
• The Trinity

I could probably name more, but hopefully you see my point. The 4 I just mentioned are the cornerstones of almost all Christians. This person dislikes the nuances of Catholicism, but I bet he does believe the 4 things I just mentioned, as Catholics do.

 

[Memaw]

I agree with you, I just don’t want him to thrash around about it on this thread.

Well, we see it differently. I don’t think he ever understood Catholic teaching. The fact that he believed himself to be a “devout Catholic” does not make it so. His own description of the cold deadness he experienced makes it clear that he was not in communion with the Church even when he was attending.

I agree with this also, but I am not convinced that he is not ignorant.

I agree that there is some reason he is here. Perhaps there are unresolved feelings and issues. This is a good thing, from my perspective, and an opportunity to try to correct misperceptions. I think it is better to err on the side that this is an authentic inquiry and that it is based on ignorance. I am sure if I am wrong, this will come to light./QUO

guanophore,

He is going to “thrash about” on this thread anyway, he enjoys doing it! And I think he has an agenda. I don’t even believe he ever was a Catholic of any sort. He said he was once a devout Catholic, well even if he was an ignorant one, he would KNOW he was never TAUGHT that garbage hes spewing. He has been well trained in his hatred for the Catholic Church.
Yes we do see this fellow differently, I have come across them many times before and if you read some of these threads, there are others like him on them too. They are not here to inquire or even question, they are here to play their little nasty games with everyone. I for one do not fall for it. The “cold deadness” he has is from his hatred and nothing else. God Bless, memaw

 

[Memaw]

Oh c’mon now, almost all Christians have the basics in common. Obviously, he is wrong, he shares more than he thinks.

• Christ is the Son of God
• He died for our sins.
• He rose again in 3 days.
• The Trinity

I could probably name more, but hopefully you see my point. The 4 I just mentioned are the cornerstones of almost all Christians. This person dislikes the nuances of Catholicism, but I bet he does believe the 4 things I just mentioned, as Catholics do.

Mike,
You seem to know more than anyone else so why don’t you try to convince this poor fellow he shares something with us.
I have news for you, it takes more that just those 4 things to be a true Christian. You always want others to “see your point” but you are not willing to see anyone else’s point. Where does the Eucharist fit into your points?? I am talking about the TRUE Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our LORD. You have this “I’m OK, your OK,” attitude that is not helpful. Why would they even want to try to understand the TRUTH if you keep patting them on the head saying your fine where you are. You should want the very BEST for them, not just what they “think” is the best. God Bless, memaw

 

[guanophore]

If Rome and Babylon are the same as you claim, then how could Rome(Babylon) still exist?

It doesn’t. All that was prophesied in Revelation (and in Gospels) about the destruction of the Roman Empire and the Temple in Jerusalem has taken place.

Why would any church want to have the name of Rome (Babylon) associated to it, if that is what is meant by those verses in Revelation?

We are not the Head of the Church, and what may be our likes and dislikes about the way Christ does things are quite irrelevant. It was Christ that sent Peter and Paul to Rome, and it was their work done in that city in His name, and their holy martyrdom there that gave the city of Rome primacy among the Churches.

“Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:3:2 (A.D. 180).

 

[Memaw]

Stop with the sarcasm. Right or wrong, he obviously feels very sincere. A non-Catholic could say the same about you and the devoutness you have for the CC. :tsktsk:

I thought it was a legitimate question for someone that can tell such horrible stories.I wasn’t being sarcastic and I would appreciate it if you just keep your accusations to yourself. You seem to think you are the only one that has right to say what he wants. He is very sincere in his hatred, thats for sure. Do you get my point!??

 

[NotWorthy]

Mike262,

Let me ask you something. What do you think of someone who leaves your church and becomes another faith, maybe Methodist or Baptist?

This isn’t a trick question, but I think the discussion will help to illuminate the differences between Catholics and most (but not all) other Protestant faiths.

 

[guanophore]

Oh c’mon now, almost all Christians have the basics in common. Obviously, he is wrong, he shares more than he thinks.

• Christ is the Son of God
• He died for our sins.
• He rose again in 3 days.
• The Trinity

I could probably name more, but hopefully you see my point. The 4 I just mentioned are the cornerstones of almost all Christians. This person dislikes the nuances of Catholicism, but I bet he does believe the 4 things I just mentioned, as Catholics do.

He may, but there are some that call themselves Christians who don’t believe these things. My point is that it seems he does not think Catholics are Christians.

But thanks for your efforts to keep the thread charitable and free of sarcasm. I appreciate that.

 

[Memaw]

Hey Lisdogan…

There were of course political reasons for the upsurge in the pope’s authority. First, Rome was the historical capital of the empire and an important city politically, so it was natural that the bishop of that city would also be important. And when Constantine moved the capital of the empire to Constantinople in 330, the pope was the most powerful figure that remained in Rome.

Also influential were the barbarian invasions of the fifth century. Leo I, who is regarded by many as the first pope in the modern sense, was instrumental in persuading Attila the Hun not to attack Rome in 452. When the city finally fell to the Vandals in 455, Leo convinced their leader not to burn the city. These accomplishments added to the prestige to the bishop of Rome.

Moreover, when Rome fell to the barbarians in 455 AD, the church became the defender of order and justice, and what was left of ancient civilization. The Roman bishop was instrumental in regaining the unity and stability that had been shattered by the invasions. In the East, on the other hand, the empire survived for another 1000 years, so the bishops there did not have the same opportunity for political importance as their Roman counterpart.

Up until Constantine the church (Christianity) was illegal. So of course no one was claiming primacy/authority. It was an underground church, celebrating Masses it houses etc.

The original Rites had three major groupings: the Roman, the Antiochian (in Syria), and the Alexandrian (in Egypt). In the 4th century, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom, the Byzantine Rite derived from the Antiochian. These 4 main Rites eventually led to over 22 Liturgical Rites present today in the one, Holy, catholic and Apostolic Church. See below…

All of the following are particular churches of the Catholic Church. They are all in communion with the Bishop of Rome and acknowledge his claim of universal jurisdiction and authority. They have some minor distinct theological emphases and expressions concerning, for instance, in the case of those that are of Greek (Byzantine) tradition some aspI agree. The various Orthodox churches to this day have no single organizational structure or single “head.” But the C.C. is a very visible church. What do you mean by small ? ects of the Latin depiction of purgatory.[3]
Armenian Catholic Church (1742)
Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (1990)
Bulgarian Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Coptic Catholic Church
Croatian Greek Catholic Church
Ethiopian Catholic Church
Georgian Catholic Church
Greek Catholic Church
Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
Macedonian Catholic Church
Maronite Catholic Church
Melkite Catholic Church
Romanian Catholic Church
Russian Catholic Church
Ruthenian Catholic Church (usually called the “Byzantine Catholic Church” in the United States)
Slovak Greek Catholic Church
Syrian Catholic Church
Syro-Malabar Church
Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
The Roman Catholic Church considers itself the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded.

Up until this time all Christians had considered themselves to be both of orthodox (with a small “o”, meaning “right belief”) faith, and members of the catholic (with a small “c”, meaning “universal”) church, (the universal “Body of Christ”). The various Orthodox churches to this day have no single organizational structure or single “head”.

**I agree. The various Orthodox churches to this day have no single organizational structure or single “head.” But the C.C. is a very visible church. What do you mean by small ? **

The claim of Leo I of Rome’s supremacy would ultimately affect monasticism by leading to the Great Schism between the Eastern and Roman Churches in 1054 A.D., and resulting in the end of independent Celtic monasticism in 1172 A.D. at the Synod of Cashel. At that time the Irish Celtic Christians finally came under the authority of the Roman Catholic Church which then disbanded the Celtic Monastic Orders that had existed in Ireland for nearly 700 years previously.

I agree!!!

Joe: His Church will survive until his return.

This is incorrect: see above, and lets do some homework here. I am not clear about pre-Reformation history of non-Catholic churches, but know they did exist.

**Among the Christian churches IN THE WORLD TODAY, the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church are the only churches that existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The churches I am referring to are the protestant churches that spearhead the reformation. **

joe: The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on.

I think your logic is flawed here: long life does not mean something is divine. After all Satan has made a long run too.

In your opinion, what makes something divine?

Apples and oranges my friend. I am referring to earthly temporal institutions. Satan was around before the world was even formed.

The anti-Christ is ceaseless in his efforts to destroy Jesus’ “Body” which is the church, with Jesus as the “head” of the church. Wouldn’t you agree with that fact?

“But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12 :16-17

joe: The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
Other faiths have not collapsed even after 5,000 years (Hinduism for example). I agree with the rest of your statement, thank you.

I meant in the west.

Hinduism is not a Christian Church. I think we are talking about followers of Christ, Judaism hasn’t collapsed either and its much older and not Christian.

 

[guanophore]

He is going to “thrash about” on this thread anyway, he enjoys doing it! And I think he has an agenda. I don’t even believe he ever was a Catholic of any sort. He said he was once a devout Catholic, well even if he was an ignorant one, he would KNOW he was never TAUGHT that garbage hes spewing. He has been well trained in his hatred for the Catholic Church.

Yes, I agree about the thrashing. I would prefer to focus on one topic at a time, is all. I think it is very possible that he was a nominal Catholic who was poorly catechized.

I agree with you that he was not taught the garbage in a Catholic venue, though I have witnessed garbage being taught.

Yes we do see this fellow differently, I have come across them many times before and if you read some of these threads, there are others like him on them too. They are not here to inquire or even question, they are here to play their little nasty games with everyone. I for one do not fall for it. The “cold deadness” he has is from his hatred and nothing else. God Bless, memaw

I agree that he has been well trained in anti-Catholic hatred. But, when it comes to people posting this hatred on CAF, we must bear in mind that there are 10 people reading the threads for every one posting. Our replies may do more good for those lurkers than for the haters.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yes, I agree about the thrashing. I would prefer to focus on one topic at a time, is all. I think it is very possible that he was a nominal Catholic who was poorly catechized. My mom is a devout Catholic and I had to refute many of the discussion she had with an Evangelical Protestant…

I agree with you that he was not taught the garbage in a Catholic venue, though I have witnessed garbage being taught.

That is common amongst ex-Catholics. Many of them are poorly catechized. I have spoken to my mother and she only knows the basic Catholic faith but when I catechized her, she learn a lot about Divine Revelation. I told her about Dei Verbum, one of the Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council. I also quoted Scripture.

I agree that he has been well trained in anti-Catholic hatred. But, when it comes to people posting this hatred on CAF, we must bear in mind that there are 10 people reading the threads for every one posting. Our replies may do more good for those lurkers than for the haters.

Most of the Anti-Catholic remarks here done by Non-Catholic Christians often trail away from the original thread. It only proves that they are losing the argument. How many threads have you witness that went off the topic?

I witness many and many of these are done mostly by NCC. Catholics too are guilty of this as well.

 

[Memaw]

Yes, I agree about the thrashing. I would prefer to focus on one topic at a time, is all. I think it is very possible that he was a nominal Catholic who was poorly catechized.

I agree with you that he was not taught the garbage in a Catholic venue, though I have witnessed garbage being taught.

I agree that he has been well trained in anti-Catholic hatred. But, when it comes to people posting this hatred on CAF, we must bear in mind that there are 10 people reading the threads for every one posting. Our replies may do more good for those lurkers than for the haters.

I think its time the “lurkers” learn we will not tolerate such lies.
I agree that the Faith has not been properly taught for some 30 years after Vat. II, but that still doesn’t account for this garbage hes saying. I taught the faith all during that time, so I know first hand what damage was done by those that tried to change the teaching of the Catholic Church in America, it didn’t work and the TRUTH is being brought out of it. To water down the faith is bad enough but to outright lie about it like that is HORRIBLE. Especially from a so called former catholic, which I am NOT convinced he ever was one.

 

[guanophore]

I think its time the “lurkers” learn we will not tolerate such lies.

What do you mean by that? Do you think that by railing and fuming you can prevent such lies? It is BECAUSE of such lies that CAF is so important. Better the lies be brought here, so that they can be refuted.

If such persons, as this one may be, are not interested in learning, then they will eventually get themselves banned by violating the forum rules.

For the record, I have since read more of the posts, and I am as offended by them as you are.

Such language and calumny is a painful wound to the Body of Christ, and surely injure His sacred heart. We can join our sufferings with His.

I agree that the Faith has not been properly taught for some 30 years after Vat. II, but that still doesn’t account for this garbage hes saying.

Oh, certainly not! I did not mean to imply that all of this spew resulted from poor catechesis. My point about that was that poorly catechized persons are more prone to being sucked into these anti-Catholic hate groups, where they are then indoctrinated with lies from the pit. I speak from experience on this!

I taught the faith all during that time, so I know first hand what damage was done by those that tried to change the teaching of the Catholic Church in America, it didn’t work and the TRUTH is being brought out of it. To water down the faith is bad enough but to outright lie about it like that is HORRIBLE. Especially from a so called former catholic, which I am NOT convinced he ever was one.

I was not justifying this horrendous behavior, but putting out a call for all of us to address it with the utmost grace, humility, and charity. Jesus bore such insults as He hung upon the cross, and we share in His suffering, and make up what is lacking. Let us suffer with dignity.

 

[Memaw]

That is common amongst ex-Catholics. Many of them are poorly catechized. I have spoken to my mother and she only knows the basic Catholic faith but when I catechized her, she learn a lot about Divine Revelation. I told her about Dei Verbum, one of the Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council. I also quoted Scripture.

Most of the Anti-Catholic remarks here done by Non-Catholic Christians often trail away from the original thread. It only proves that they are losing the argument. How many threads have you witness that went off the topic?

I witness many and many of these are done mostly by NCC. Catholics too are guilty of this as well.

Mannyfit and guanophore,

I don’t consider this “off topic” I think it is trying to correct the errors of those that hate the Catholic Church. The question is, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?”
Well defending our Catholic Faith in TRUTH, should be the greatest response to that question. For those that are sincerely interested, for the lurkers and even for the haters
Pope Benedict has asked us many times to evangelize but never compromise our Catholic Faith. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Mannyfit75]

Mannyfit and guanophore,

I don’t consider this “off topic” I think it is trying to correct the errors of those that hate the Catholic Church. The question is, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?”
Well defending our Catholic Faith in TRUTH, should be the greatest response to that question. For those that are sincerely interested, for the lurkers and even for the haters
Pope Benedict has asked us many times to evangelize but never compromise our Catholic Faith. God Bless, Memaw

No it isn’t but I was addressing NCC in general in these forums who have trail away from the topic. Most of the off the topic response have been done by NCC. Like I said before, it only proves that the NCC are losing the argument when they go off the topic.

 

[Ronald_E]

I think its time the “lurkers” learn we will not tolerate such lies.
I agree that the Faith has not been properly taught for some 30 years after Vat. II, but that still doesn’t account for this garbage hes saying. I taught the faith all during that time, so I know first hand what damage was done by those that tried to change the teaching of the Catholic Church in America, it didn’t work and the TRUTH is being brought out of it. To water down the faith is bad enough but to outright lie about it like that is HORRIBLE. Especially from a so called former catholic, which I am NOT convinced he ever was one.

Memaw, When I was a child and angry with my mother, I would intentionally do and say things that would get her upset to the point that she would slap me. I was happy when she slapped me because my hatred knew that I had hurt her and that was the intent.
You are obviously hurt by the attacks against our loving faith. IMO I believe that pleasure is experienced somewhere outside our faith when we are hurt by some remark that is not true about our loving faith. When we defend our faith instead of explaining our love for our faith we move into aggressive feelings that do not show love but instead show agitation at best and evil has been pleased to move us away from love.
Every feeling no matter how small that is not love causes for that moment our loss of a loving connection to God.
Stop now Ron or you will have to go to On and On Anon.

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Originally Posted by backfrmthebrink
This is the problem often run into. People taking Scripture without understadning the Bible at all in its teaching of doctrine. **

really? people like you?

let’s see the Bible has always been with the CC until it was stolen by proud men. judge for yourself what happened after that.

you were talked into believe that because you now have this Book you have the Truth. no you dont, not because the Bible doesnt have the Truth, it does but the personal enterpretation of man can be distorted. for the Church is the Pillar and balwark of the Truth. dont you think Jesus knew this would happened that men would be able to get this Book and do all kinds of things with it?

another thing, the Bible does not give anyone authority. Jesus is the One given authority and power to man. He did this when He select 13 men to teach all He wanted us to know about His Will. notice that He did not want all His followers to do this, only the 13 men. why do you think there is?

and after that the apostles with the authority given by Christ summoned others to replace them. no one assumed any authority, it was given to them guided by the HS. and the Church was borne.

you see. God has a plan of His own.

:byzsoc: :angel1:

 

[Memaw]

What do you mean by that? Do you think that by railing and fuming you can prevent such lies? It is BECAUSE of such lies that CAF is so important. Better the lies be brought here, so that they can be refuted.

Maybe so but they STILL know it was not taught to them when they were Catholic. I am not a thief now, but if I should ever be suckered into a gang of thieves, you can’t tell me I would not remember it was wrong to steal. I think we call that a dead conscience.

I was not justifying this horrendous behavior, but putting out a call for all of us to address it with the utmost grace, humility, and charity.

Then please use some of that grace, humility and charity when criticizing me. We can do more good together than this. You in your way and I in mine.

Jesus bore such insults as He hung upon the cross, and we share in His suffering, and make up what is lacking. Let us suffer with dignity.

** What are you implying?? Don’t be so judgmental.**

 

[Memaw]

Memaw, When I was a child and angry with my mother, I would intentionally do and say things that would get her upset to the point that she would slap me. I was happy when she slapped me because my hatred knew that I had hurt her and that was the intent.
You are obviously hurt by the attacks against our loving faith. IMO I believe that pleasure is experienced somewhere outside our faith when we are hurt by some remark that is not true about our loving faith. When we defend our faith instead of explaining our love for our faith we move into aggressive feelings that do not show love but instead show agitation at best and evil has been pleased to move us away from love.
Every feeling no matter how small that is not love causes for that moment our loss of a loving connection to God.
Stop now Ron or you will have to go to On and On Anon.

I agree, stop now Ron cuz you are going way overboard in you remarks, You cannot judge my love for my fellow christians by a few words written here. Maybe its BECAUSE I have GREAT LOVE for them and my Faith that I do defend the Faith against such lies. Instead of attacking me, why don’t you put your words to good use and try to help that fellow come back from the Brink.

 

[Ronald_E]

I agree, stop now Ron cuz you are going way overboard in you remarks, You cannot judge my love for my fellow christians by a few words written here. Maybe its BECAUSE I have GREAT LOVE for them and my Faith that I do defend the Faith against such lies. Instead of attacking me, why don’t you put your words to good use and try to help that fellow come back from the Brink.

I am sorry my message sounded like an attack. It was not my intent. I strive to look at everything through the Heart of Christ and what He taught us in the Beatitudes and on the Cross. I especially love to contemplate on the Heart of Mary as she stands and watches her Son be crucified for us and how she knew this was going to happen all the time she was with him. So I try to find in myself a way to love when I feel attacked and hurt without defending myself. I desire to know what it really means to love our perceived enemies like Our Lord does and express that love in such a way that it shows others through our words and actions that Jesus is truly in the Eucharist.
I am learning that the Light of God is luminous and lucifer is a light that is produced by friction and causes heat. When Truth is spoken with a light that produces heat it causes pain and separation.
I will now go to my meeting at On and On Anon.