If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

[onmyknees]

Hi whatisthetruth,
My feelings are kind of hurt because you did not ever respond to my posts to you. I mostly let the others respond to you because they can write and explain far better than I can but I make myself give it a try when I pray to Jesus so that maybe I can be of some help too. You see I left the Catholic Church also for many years and I am so happy to have come back that I want to help you come back too.

 

[ralphinal]

The Catholic church needs to change their view on birth control. That’s just one of many needed changes.

Why? For what purpose? How is the teaching wrong? On whose authority do you have it that it is incorrect?

 

[onmyknees]

fb19,
Thanks so much for the thoughtful note. It really cheered me up!

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi whatisthetruth,
My feelings are kind of hurt because you did not ever respond to my posts to you. I mostly let the others respond to you because they can write and explain far better than I can but I make myself give it a try when I pray to Jesus so that maybe I can be of some help too. You see I left the Catholic Church also for many years and I am so happy to have come back that I want to help you come back too.

onmyknees, I am sorry. I ask you please do not feel hurt. In responding to others your post to me was an honest oversight I can assure you. I am not ignoring you. In trying my hardest to answer everyone, not just here but in others, I obviously missed yours and probably others to.

I say this to everyone here. If you post to me and I do not respond right away, may I suggest post it again in color or please, I say again, please PM me. A lot of people have done just that so I can not miss their a post.

I can assure you, I have not and will not ignore anyone.

Thank you for your help and patience

God bless,

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi onmyknees,

I am sorry I missed this post by you to me, ** if there are others please let me know**, ok?

It is because I missed your post I will answer your every concern you have straight from my heart. I do apologize in advance this may be a little lengthy.

Hi whatisthetruth,

I have read most of your posts and you keep saying things like, I live out my Christianity as a way of life in every word, thought and deed. Somehow I take this as you don’t think that Catholics do this.

Please do not take it that way. I would never think or say that about anyone, I am sorry you feel that is what I am suggesting by saying “Christianity is a way of life in every word, thought and deed”

By saying that, I am trying to establish with Roman Catholics who believe I do not love God,
that I am doing minimal work for the church,
that I am not experiencing the fullness of truth.
That they are making false assumptions about my christian life.

I say that because it has been posted to me in PM and on the threads. Take a look around and you will find the assumptions and accusations I am talking about.

We are Catholic Christians and we also try to live every moment of our lives in Christ.

I do not have a single doubt in my mind.

I do not mind saying again, I very much appreciate the prayers, the love and care everyone here has shown me and I very much feel welcomed here. Jesus’ love does shine in this place

Loving God and our neighbor in everything we do. I talk\pray to Jesus all day long and I want to do everything for the love of Him! So I think we agree on this.

Absolutely, I agree with everything you just said, Alleluia

I still don’t understand how you interpret John 20: 21-23.

As a former Roman Catholic for the first 30 years of my life I do understand how you interpret John 20: 21-23. I appreciate and respect your belief.

**In due respect, I ask you, is that the *only way ***this verse can be interpreted?

I encourage you or anyone, look at John 20: 21-23 not through the eyes of a Roman Catholic but through the eyes of someone who picked up a bible for the first time and never set foot in any church building or even knows the meaning of “church”.

John 20: 21-23
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you

 

[whatisthetruth]

cont…

And when I read a “you” in scripture, I immediately replace the “you” with a “me” and then ask God in prayer, "God, do you have a message for me in this verse?

For example,

when I read from John 8:31-32,

Then Jesus said to those Jews, who believed him: If you

continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed.
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

I would ask Jesus in prayer, "Dear Jesus, were you just speaking to the Jews at the time or are you also saying to me,

**

"I

**shall know the truth and the truth shall make me free?"

The same principle I apply to John 20: 21-23.

I beleive the verses mean,

consider the following,

you sinned (stole) from me and then at some point after, came to me and sincerely apologized to me and even returned the goods which you stole.

I say to you with a “stiff shoulder” keep the goods, I did not need them anyway. I never want to see you again.

Fact: I did not forgive you in my heart, I have a huge grudge against you.

The fact that I did not forgive you does not prevent you from God forgiving you of the sin you commited of stealing from me when you go to confession and confess and repent it, correct?

Back to me, I now go and I steal from a grocery store. At some point in time I return the goods to the store and apologize to the owner, and thank God he is a Christian, he forgave me.

However, when I go to confess my sin to God of stealing, God will not forgive me of my sin due to the fact I never forgave you in my own heart (released the grudge I have towards you of stealing from me) and until I do my sin of stealing will not be forgiven by God.

I would need to see you face to face and let you know that I was wrong for not forgiving you (my sin), I would then need to let you know that I have forgiven you of stealing from me and follow up with a sincere apology that I held a grudge against you and ask for your forgiveness. (and God only knows my heart at this point)

at which point your faith is tested as to if you will hold a grudge against me or not

As far as the Holy Spirit. We are all blessed with the fruits of the Holy Spirit when we make a faith decision to become Christian.

I love them.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
Galatians 5:21-23

I strive to be an example of the fruits of the spirit every day in my Christian walk in the Lord.

now read

John 20: 21-23
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you!, (onmyknees

) As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."(onmyknees) And with that he breathed on them (you too as a Christian) and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you (onmyknees) forgive anyone his sins,( in your own heart)they are forgiven(you do not have any grudge against the sinner, you have completely forgotten their sin against you); if you (onmyknees) do not forgive them (hold a grudge like I illustrated above), they are not forgiven.”(you have not forgiven the sinner against you therefore God will not forgive you of your sin, until you humble yourself and release the grudge you are holding and forgive the sinner face to face and apologize for sinning by holding a grudge against them)

I believe as many Christians do, that God may have in addition to all the chuches’s teachings may have a personal message for us as individuals too.

Example, there might be a crisis in your own personal life. You may want to seek God’s advice in the bible to see how He wants you to handle a certain situation. There is only so much a priest can help you with.

I believe the answer you or anyone needs in any situation is right from God himself through His word in the bible. And that message can be contained in every single verse and/or story in the bible from the first chapter of Genesis to the last chapter of Revelation.

to be continued

God bless,

truth

 

[Jimmy_B]

The Catholic church needs to change their view on birth control. That’s just one of many needed changes.

Hello, Namesake,

So you (Namesake) think that “the Catholic church needs to change their view on birth control", and this would be to suit you Namesake?

You might want to give God a “call” and see what He thinks first, because it isn’t a “rule” of the Catholic Church (no birth control), it is the Catholic Church explaining one of God’s “rules”.

So really, your complaint is with God, not the Roman Catholic Church.

Isn’t this an example of having “God on your terms” when really, we are supposed to have “God on His terms”.

This is why there are so many different Christian religions today;

a* little change here, a little change there; “I like this part, but I don’t like that part*".

At some point, you become a “religion of one”. Are you a “religion of one”? Should all people join the church of “Namesake" now? I am sorry, but it does not work that way.

This issue on birth control, use to bother me when I was younger and not married, for obvious reasons, but I didn’t say or think that the Catholic Church is wrong, I knew that they were not, I just dealt with guilt of any sin commited.

And later, I asked for forgiveness. What’s wrong with a little guilt?

Eventually when we get older, our situation in life or “configuration” changes, getting older makes it easier to avoid sin.

Guilt is a good thing,

Guilt is the spark that lights the fire called humility (love), humility leads us to remorse, and remorse causes us to ask for forgiveness, forgiveness reconciles us with the Father (God).

If you don’t think for example, using birth control is a sin, (and it turns out that it is a sin) then you are not going to ask for forgiveness and if you don’t ask for forgiveness of a sin commit, then you might have a problem.

When we sin, we turn away from God. Don’t try to change or lower the standards, just try to meet the standards.

Why would you want to take a chance on being wrong and go to Hell?

I have read a quote once that went something like this;

“I would rather live as a Protestant, but I would rather die as a Catholic”

I believe Newman said that.

It is better to have done more and made it (into heaven) then done less and not make it.

I am a Roman Catholic so, for example in the 'born-again" belief, I’ve already “made it” because I have already asked for forgiveness (and still do, as a Catholic) and I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savoir.

Now if they (born- again’s) are right, I go to heaven, if the Catholic Church is right (and I am a good Catholic) I go to heaven, but this doesn’t work the other way around because, the standards are lower in many other “Protestant” Religions.

Good luck.

 

[Namesake]

Hello, Namesake,

So you (Namesake) think that “the Catholic church needs to change their view on birth control", and this would be to suit you Namesake?

You might want to give God a “call” and see what He thinks first, because it isn’t a “rule” of the Catholic Church (no birth control), it is the Catholic explaining one of God’s “rules”.

So really, your complaint is with God, not the Roman Catholic Church.

Isn’t this an example of having “God on your terms” when really, we are supposed to have “God on His terms”.

This is why there are so many different Christian religions today;

a* little change here, a little change there; “I like this part, but I don’t like that part*".

At some point, you become a “religion of one”. Are you a “religion of one”? Should all people join the church of “Namesake" now? I am sorry, but it does not work that way.

This issue on birth control, use to bother me when I was younger and not married, for obvious reasons, but I didn’t say or think that the Catholic Church is wrong, I knew that they were not, I just dealt with guilt of my sins.

And later, I asked for forgiveness. What’s wrong with a little guilt? Eventually when we get older, our situation in life or “configuration” changes, getting older makes it easier to avoid sin.

Guilt is a good thing,

Guilt is the spark that lights the fire called humility (love), humility leads us to remorse, and remorse causes us to ask for forgiveness, forgiveness reconciles us with the Father (God).

If you don’t think for example, using birth control is a sin, (and it turns out that it is a sin) then you are not going to ask for forgiveness and if you don’t ask for forgiveness of a sin commit, then you might have a problem.

When we sin, we turn way from God. Don’t try to change or lower the standards, just try to meet the standards.

Why would you want to take a chance on being wrong and go to Hell?

I have read a quote once that went something like this;

“I would rather live as a Protestant, but I would rather die as a Catholic”

I believe Newman said that.

It is better to have done more and made it (into heaven) then done less and not make it.

I am a Roman Catholic so, for example in the 'born-again" belief, I’ve already “made it” because I have already asked for forgiveness (and still do, as a Catholic) and I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savoir.

Now if they (born- again’s) are right, I go to heaven, if the Catholic Church is right (and I am a good Catholic) I go to heaven, but this doesn’t work the other way around because, the standards are lower in many other “Protestant” Religions.

Good luck.

I think the Catholic church is anachronistic and hypocritical regarding birth control. After all, the whole point of NFP is birth control. It’s another one of the loopholes created by your church.

 

[onmyknees]

whatisthetruth,
Thank you for your very kind response to my posts which I know is from your heart! I get a little bit overly sensitive at times. I agree with you that in the Bible Jesus is talking to each and everyone of us. My favorite is psalm 139. Have you read it? About how God knew each of us before we were conceived and that He never leaves us. He knows all our ways. My priest has me read this psalm for my penance when I am depressed so I will remember how much God loves me! I am going to discuss your interpretation of John 20 with him because I want to see what he says about it. Again thank you so much. You are a very thoughtful and good person!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Namesake,

If I used a similar, simple rationale or analogy like that used in your response, I could counter, that technically, abstinence is a form a birth control and that abstinence is a loop-hole. Your comment makes no sense. It’s Ironic that you use the term “loop-hole” when in fact, many are a non-Catholic Christian (Protestant) because they have “found” a “loop-hole”.

Many non-Catholic Christian religions (Protestants religions) are the religions of “loop-holes”

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

I think the Catholic church is anachronistic and hypocritical regarding birth control. After all, the whole point of NFP is birth control. It’s another one of the loopholes created by your church.

How is it anachronistic?

Until you’ve read “Theology of the Body” you have no idea what the Church thinks, and any statements you make are utterly “superficial”.

Your misunderstanding of NFP, which IS “birth control” but with a different meaning of the word “CONTROL” to mean other than what Ba’al worshippers mean, by which they mean “DEATH in sacrifice to ‘comfortable convenience’”.

Is that what you mean by “control”?

 

[onmyknees]

I think the Catholic church is anachronistic and hypocritical regarding birth control. After all, the whole point of NFP is birth control. It’s another one of the loopholes created by your church.

 

[Namesake]

How is it anachronistic?

The Catholic church probably was an important and functional part of human society at some time in the past. Certainly it was a very powerful organization. But the Catholic church is long past it’s halcyon days. Nevertheless, the Catholic church looks backward to those days of power and relevance instead of looking forward to what contemporary humans need. And for sure the world needs birth control for many good reasons. But the Catholic church can’t get that figured out directly so the loophole is invented.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

The Catholic church probably was an important and functional part of human society at some time in the past. Certainly it was a very powerful organization. But the Catholic church is long past it’s halcyon days. Nevertheless, the Catholic church looks backward to those days of power and relevance instead of looking forward to what contemporary humans need.

Please define “backward”?

Is your assumption that “revelation” is nonexistent, and was only an “illusion” of the past? That “truth” is utterly unknowable and only seen as a relative “good/bad” balance?

Your emphasis seems to be that the important part of our discussion is the “power” situation of the Church. That the present day Church is “concerned with it’s power” and always has been. Would that be true?

Please show us how the Church is not concerned with “contemporary humans needs”?

And for sure the world needs birth control for many good reasons. But the Catholic church can’t get that figured out directly so the loophole is invented.

Why “for sure”, eh dude?

Why does the world NEED birth control, by which you seem to mean “killing pre-born people”?

Do tell. I’m very interested in exposing Ba’al where he pops out. Do tell.

 

[inchrist101]

OK I’m a former Catholic and can give you honest reasons why I left the church. Well actually I did not leave the church the church left me (initially). I went through an emotional divorce and unless I got it annulled I was told I could not re-marry in the Catholic church nor could I participate in communion. So I basically said what anyone who got a bad taste from this would say. Up yours!!! Forigve my expletive but I’m being very very honest.

I did not attend worship services for years. After re-marrying someone who came from the Protestant side of the house I developed a respect for her knowledge of the Bible. So I started reading the Bible diligently and pretty much have been through the NT 4-5 times and always find myself re-reading and re-reading. I also take Bible study classes, at least 3 a year. What I can honestly say is that after reading the Bible I found that I disagreed with the office of the Pope. I’m not going to use the typical Mary worship thing although I do have thoughts on that. But I simply refuse to acknowledge the Pope as the head of the church of Jesus. This comes from long hours of reading and researching. In a nutshell Jesus tells us explicitly that his church will have no lordship like the pagans. Lordship means a Caesar. Well if you look at the title of the Pope which is Pontifcus Maximus, this is the same title used by Caesar. This is absolutely counter to what Jesus tells us. I’m familiar with all the arguments of Matthew and the rock so I can’t be swayed by any new information there. I’ve seen a ton and simply do not agree.

I prayed for God to lead my family to a church where we could worship and behold we ended up at Mountain Christian church in Joppa Maryland which is strictly non-denominational. If I had the space to tell how we ended up there you would only agree with me that it was the Holy Spirit guiding us. I’ve never been so committed to my faith as I am now. I’ve always had faith don’t get me wrong but there’s a difference between having it and living it. GOD is doing unbelievable things at our church. I see it every week. Our membership believe it or not is 85-90% former Catholic. When I ask why they left the Catholic church I get alot of different responses. The pope, Mary etc etc. But many sincerely tell me that the message is just plain lacking. No one will ever convince me that GOD is not at work in churches outside the Roman Catholic church. And certainly I’ll never believe that you have to be a Roman Catholic to go to heaven as it has been suggested.

With that said I welcome any questions and feedback. But please make it sincere. I find many on these boards just shout “we are the true church” and that’s it. That’s not how Jesus would respond.

Pease and GOD Bless all of you!!!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Namesake,

Here is the link to an excellent article explaining the Catholic Church’s “NFP” or Natural Family Planning.

The above post by another Catholic on this subject is very good also, and an excellent link can be found there (post # 818).

I’m guessing since you are “Protestant”, it might be difficult for you to actually do some research before jumping to conclusions, but as with many things in life, the answer to some questions cannot be summed-up in a “sound-bite” or in one sentence or one verse, sorry.

Instead of responding back endlessly, or asking another question why don’t you actually read what has been provided here (the two links on NFP) and demonstrate how, in your opinion, anything written in those documents are in error…

Don’t you want to know the answers to your questions or are you simply asking them as an exercise in futility? :banghead:

 

[onmyknees]

Hi Namesake,
There is nothing wrong with wanting to limit family size when using natural methods to do this. When using npf the couple is abstaining during fertile times It is not wrong to abstain from sex anytime if a couple so chooses. The couple also does nothing wrong when they choose to have unprotected sex during non-fertile times. They are not closing out the possibility of having a child. Using artificial birth control the couple is altering the natural procreative act with barriers, and or chemicals. It is taking God out of the act. He created us body and soul. Pope John Paul said that npf aids the couple in self mastery which strengthens the virtues of the human person. This self discipline flows into all areas of their family life and helps in solving many difficulties. It fosters love, respect and consideration for each other. He argues that abc allows the couple to avoid this self discipline.
I have heard from couples using npf that it also draws them closer because they learn to love each other in different ways when they are abstaining. And they must communicate more while discerning\praying for what God’s plan is for their family.
Namesake, I was never taught any of this in Catholic school. So I was talked into thinking the lie that two children were enough and after all it was so expensive to raise kids and we had to give them everything right? Wrong. I was one of six children and we didn’t have much but we were loved and I am so thankful for that. My parents were among many Catholic couples who used the natural rhythm method. They all had six or more children and guess what all but one of these couples are still married for fifty plus years! They are so happy with all their grandchildren! Hope this helps. God bless you.

 

[Namesake]

Please define “backward”?

Is your assumption that “revelation” is nonexistent, and was only an “illusion” of the past? That “truth” is utterly unknowable and only seen as a relative “good/bad” balance?

Your emphasis seems to be that the important part of our discussion is the “power” situation of the Church. That the present day Church is “concerned with it’s power” and always has been. Would that be true?

Please show us how the Church is not concerned with “contemporary humans needs”?

Why “for sure”, eh dude?

Why does the world NEED birth control, by which you seem to mean “killing pre-born people”?

Do tell. I’m very interested in exposing Ba’al where he pops out. Do tell.

You wear me out. Backward means looking toward the past. The power the Catholic church once had is gone, probably forever. Once the Church was very much in control of a lot of the world, but no more.

Birth control by contraception is vital for survival. Over population causes many problems but one that is perhaps unsolvable is aggression caused by overly dense population. It’s hard to imagine a person who would not accept that over population is a bad thing for people at least from the perspective of demand on resources.

I think the Church teaches that even if a pregnancy would be damaging to a woman or her family contraception is a major sin. I think the Churchs teaches that using a condom to prevent disease is a sin. Those kinds of positions are anachronistic because they aren’t recognizing contemporary human needs. Times have changed, but the RCC doesn’t change with the times. That isn’t all bad, but it sure isn’t a good thing in all situations either.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

OK I’m a former Catholic and can give you honest reasons why I left the church. Well actually I did not leave the church the church left me (initially). I went through an emotional divorce and unless I got it annulled I was told I could not re-marry in the Catholic church nor could I participate in communion. So I basically said what anyone who got a bad taste from this would say. Up yours!!! Forigve my expletive but I’m being very very honest.
…

With that said I welcome any questions and feedback. But please make it sincere. I find many on these boards just shout “we are the true church” and that’s it. That’s not how Jesus would respond.

Pease and GOD Bless all of you!!!

So, you didn’t believe in the Church as “the Church”, but rather in the “church” as protestants know of “churches”, from the beginning?

Bad catechesis is the great tragedy of the Church. Your bad catechesis created a terrible human trajedy. May we all pray that this nonsense (bad catechesis) cease immediately and that Catholic people get fed what they need to be true people of God.

Jesus would respond to your situation by pointing out that “marriage if valid is until death of one of the spouses” and offer you help in either reconciling with your spouse or being chaste until such time as you are in the position to wed again with God’s blessing.

How would you like to have been treated?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

You wear me out. Backward means looking toward the past. The power the Catholic church once had is gone, probably forever. Once the Church was very much in control of a lot of the world, but no more.

The Church has exactly as much power as she wants, as her power is entirely that of persuasion. That she was given perhaps so much power by temporal authorities in the past that some of her members were corrupted by it is a testament to how more “power” can be a not good thing.

Believe me. The Church is VERY HAPPY to only have as much power as she now has!

Birth control by contraception is vital for survival. Over population causes many problems but one that is perhaps unsolvable is aggression caused by overly dense population. It’s hard to imagine a person who would not accept that over population is a bad thing for people at least from the perspective of demand on resources.

There are those, such as myself, who see the illusion of overpopulation (which is always and only local and always the result of un-Catholic evil behavior) being ground into the minds of the less-than-adequately-educated as quite a tragedy.

Do some real science and you’ll quickly discover that there is no overpopulation problem on this planet, but there is an over-congestion problem in localities.

I think the Church teaches that even if a pregnancy would be damaging to a woman or her family contraception is a major sin.

Only when the “damage” is counterbalanced by the life of an innocent human being murdered is that murder “acceptable”, making it a mere killing.

If you can’t accept that a person is a person, and that the single most innocent posssible person is an unborn person, then you might want to explore why that is so.

I think the Churchs teaches that using a condom to prevent disease is a sin.

The overiding way to prevent disease born by the penis is to not use the penis for things by which it would be dangerous to use it.

Using condoms is always a misuse of that which they cover, and is definately a sin.

Those kinds of positions are anachronistic because they aren’t recognizing contemporary human needs.

So, human beings have actually CHANGED as to what they need?

Please expand on that interesting statement!?

Times have changed, but the RCC doesn’t change with the times. That isn’t all bad, but it sure isn’t a good thing in all situations either.

Human “needs” don’t change. Our faith and morals are fully revealed to us as to how to deal with those unchanging needs.

Please explain how human needs have changed and be what method we are to use to develop new “faiths and morals” for these changes?