If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

[qui_est_ce]

Wow!! I just niticed Calm got banned

Nah,… seems to have been due to some PASTA related issue!

CAF is an equal opportunity banner!

 

[Archus]

Umm… wow.

I read the first 4 pages, and realised how many there are. I didn’t read the others. If I am saying something that has already been said, then that is only evidence that it calls for such a reply.

I suppose that a view is as soon as ‘Catholic’ comes into the equation, that can be synonymous with ‘authority’, someone who has read up on what they are doing, knows who they are and generally is someone not to be trifled with. At least, before I was Catholic, that was certainly the impression.

I’d like to say that we seem to have lost the mark here. I have seen that a lot of replies are ‘Catholics believe this’, ‘Catholics believe that’, ‘Catholics do this, not this’, et cetera. We must not say this, we must begin with what we believe, in saying I believe this, I say this, not this, according to my faith, not what the general consenus is.

Being Christian, catholic or not, is about love. It is about loving each other, not for who we should be but for who we are. We are losing the simplicity of love.

It is about being patient, kind, understanding, regardless if we agree with it or not we should still listen and accept that which is their belief, catholic or not.

It should not be about, why you are not Catholic, but rather, why are you protestant, mormon, quaker, amish (okay maybe not so much…) but why you still consider yourself christian. I am guessing it is all down to love. Ask each other why, ask each other why not. It is about learning, being challenged but not to the point of being put in a corner or being put down simply because you are different, but it is about being asked a question and finding out that answer, and that answer should be sought together, for the person asking the question will gain knowledge, and the person answering it will gain wisdom.

There is an old proverb, I forget if it is eastern or western, but it goes something like this:

"Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens. "

Ask, talk, answer, gain that knowledge, gain that wisdom, for even if you believe in sola scriptura you have to admit that you still need to learn that scripture, and if you believe in good works as well, you need to be able to see where those good works fit in scripture. Either way, whether you believe in sola scriptura or not, you better be prepared to read scripture! Both for yourselves, and for the persons who believe in scripture to the letter, for you will need to know it to the letter too.

 

[D317]

When the Euphoria wears off, you still have to face Truth. Even Jesus went through the “desert” experience. Yes, God is in ALL places at ALL times. Truth is not dependent on how at home you feel.

I have found the more involved I am in my parish, the more “at home” I feel there. When I go to daily 6:30 AM mass in the winter, it is dark and cold outside. It I don’t want to get out of bed. I walk into church, the smell of candles and incense feed my senses. I slip off my shoe and feel the warmth radiating from the floor. I am home with Jesus. One of the best reasons outside of Truth to being Catholic, is the rituals that sustain you through the desert.
youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo&mode=related&search=

Yes, it was “dead” there many years. The old priest wasn’t excited about anything, but I knew my faith did not depend on a man. We parishioners fellowshipped and prayed. We prayed for a dynamic pastor for six years. In God’s time, we got one. Many new ministries were begun. I started Welcome ministry. We now have the reputation of being the most welcoming parish in our neck of the city. We have prayer services, share Vacation Bible School, Health Ministry, Outreach to the poor and elderly, with the Lutheran church across the street.

I thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for letting me share mine.

A M E N!

 

[VARC]

If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

]

I believe that the Roman church broke continuity with the Church when it changed the Creed and excommunicated all the other patriarchs for not following suit.

 

[SIA]

When the Euphoria wears off, you still have to face Truth. Even Jesus went through the “desert” experience. Yes, God is in ALL places at ALL times. Truth is not dependent on how at home you feel.

I have found the more involved I am in my parish, the more “at home” I feel there. When I go to daily 6:30 AM mass in the winter, it is dark and cold outside. It I don’t want to get out of bed. I walk into church, the smell of candles and incense feed my senses. I slip off my shoe and feel the warmth radiating from the floor. I am home with Jesus. One of the best reasons outside of Truth to being Catholic, is the rituals that sustain you through the desert.
youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo&mode=related&search=

Yes, it was “dead” there many years. The old priest wasn’t excited about anything, but I knew my faith did not depend on a man. We parishioners fellowshipped and prayed. We prayed for a dynamic pastor for six years. In God’s time, we got one. Many new ministries were begun. I started Welcome ministry. We now have the reputation of being the most welcoming parish in our neck of the city. We have prayer services, share Vacation Bible School, Health Ministry, Outreach to the poor and elderly, with the Lutheran church across the street.

I thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for letting me share mine.

Thank you for your post. I am glad that you are at home with Christ in your Catholic church. I was not at home with him regardless of priest or any other attributing or non-attributing influence. The euphoria you are referring to is really a fire that is always buring and sometimes burns more intensely that others. Every facet of my Christian walk and life is sharper, more meaningful and much better understood. I know how to listen to God and listen for his responses to prayer. i know the Scriptures much better now and understand how they shape our lives and how much truth there is in God’s holy word. I see them truly at work like never before and it is amazing. I am sincerely glad that you are in tune with Jesus where you are, but the real truth is that I wasn’t for many years in the Catholic church and that I have been rekindled and renewed in the Anglican church for many years now. It’s not just a fad or some euphoric experience; it is living water abundantly. This really is truth like you mentioned. God’s truth is revealed to whom he wishes it to be regardless of where that person is. For you it is in the Catholic church. For me even though I was a cradle Catholic, it is surely in the Anglican church where I am truly at home.

 

[mgrfin]

I believe that the Roman church broke continuity with the Church when it changed the Creed and excommunicated all the other patriarchs for not following suit.

VARC,

You keep telling us how wonderful the Eastern Orthodox Church is. All well and good.

And you keep threatening us that you are going to join.

Why haven’t you joined? Why do you come here day after day, month after month crying about the Roman Catholic Church.

If your conscience finds the Western Church, and the Eastern Church appeals to your finer sensibilities, I urge you to follow your conscience.

I am sure when you get there, you will not find any peace. You will continue coming to this site complaining about the Roman Catholic Church, even though you supposedly have found ‘home’.

So, when are you going to be received there so we can pray for you and bid you farewell? Maybe you will celebrate the Feast of St. Photius by joining the Orthodox.

peace

 

[marietta]

mgrfin:
Some Catholics have drifted away from the Church, others feel they have been booted out; some, like me, don’t feel we have a place in the Church. I find the Church’s teachings testosterone-heavy, that She is unwilling to take responsibility for the dreadful behaviors of many of Her “servants” (and a cash pay-out does not qualify), and yet still keeps girls off the altar and lay women in roles of token participation. And isn’t it interesting that the Church is referred to in feminine gender?

Right here, Catholic Answers Forum reports the use of Viagra is permitted, but the use of any reliable sort of birth control is condemned. This translates into, “Boys will be boys!” and “Sit up and act like a lady!” I’ve been confronted with this sort of double standard for decades and, although I’m fatigued with this sickening game of inequity, I intend to go down swingin’.

I find it repugnant that the Catholic Church presents itself as the one true church. Catholics have neither a singular claim on God nor the only keys to the kindgom. Catholicism is rigid, patriarchal, and unfulfilling TO ME. You, sir, have illustrated by your posts how truly petty and narrow a self-proclaimed Roman Catholic can be, a seemingly effortless task for you. Must be the testosterone.

Hey, you asked.

marietta

 

[mgrfin]

mgrfin:
Some Catholics have drifted away from the Church, others feel they have been booted out; some, like me, don’t feel we have a place in the Church. I find the Church’s teachings testosterone-heavy, that She is unwilling to take responsibility for the dreadful behaviors of many of Her “servants” (and a cash pay-out does not qualify), and yet still keeps girls off the altar and lay women in roles of token participation. And isn’t it interesting that the Church is referred to in feminine gender?

Right here, Catholic Answers Forum reports the use of Viagra is permitted, but the use of any reliable sort of birth control is condemned. This translates into, “Boys will be boys!” and “Sit up and act like a lady!” I’ve been confronted with this sort of double standard for decades and, although I’m fatigued with this sickening game of inequity, I intend to go down swingin’.

I find it repugnant that the Catholic Church presents itself as the one true church. Catholics have neither a singular claim on God nor the only keys to the kindgom. Catholicism is rigid, patriarchal, and unfulfilling TO ME. You, sir, have illustrated by your posts how truly petty and narrow a self-proclaimed Roman Catholic can be, a seemingly effortless task for you. Must be the testosterone.

Hey, you asked.

marietta

marietta

I asked? I checked my last series of posts, and I don’t see myself asking anything. This is the first of your posts I’ve even read.

I note that you don’t claim to be Catholic, so I don’t know where your angst is coming from. Even Viagra can’t help me, so you must mean someone else.

I am a human. You expect someone who is a Catholic is authomatically saintly, Hardly. If your Church claims to have the keys to the kingdom of heaven, please show me where they got them from.

If I offended you, I apologize. The problem with being an ‘apologist’, you get put on my lots of people calling you names.

Let’s backtrack please and show where I am petty and narrowminded.

peace

 

[mgrfin]

mgrfin:

             I asked?  I check my last series of posts, and I don't see myself asking anything.

I note that you don’t claim to be Catholic, so I don’t know where your angst is coming from.

I am a human. You expect someone who is a Catholic is authomatically saintly, Hardly. If your Church claims to have the keys to the kingdom of heaven, please show me where they got them from.

If I offended you, I apologize. The problem with being an ‘apologist’, you get put on my lots of people calling you names.

Let’s backtrack please and show where I am petty and narrowminded I am.

By looking at posts by a particular member, I see he was banned, even though he was a Catholic. Forum Administration is not very patient with the kind of behavior you accuse me of, so I am interested to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks.

peace

 

[justasking4]

If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

Are you ready for some truth; most people don’t like the truth so much?

The reason I asked this question is that I find many Christians somewhat disingenuous when it comes to the real reason or reasons that they are not Catholic or are no longer Catholic.

I feel that many of the Catholic dissenters here who love to quote Bible verses and argue against Catholicism have a personal reason for not being Catholic and not a biblical reason. That is why you can never get anywhere with these people. I have also found this to be true in my real-life contacts and conversations with Catholic dissenters.

For example, a vast majority of people I have met over the years who say that they left the Catholic Church, for this reason or that, it turns out, had no religion in their lives what so ever, for many years.

They didn’t leave the Catholic Church on Sunday to become a “Born-Again” on Monday. They left the Catholic Church on Sunday and became a “Born-Again” twenty or thirty years later.

They left their Faith, turned their back on God and did as they pleased, without guilt, what a life.

They where having “fun” living a promiscuous lifestyle and guess what the guilt finally catches up with them (sin has a way of doing that, don’t you know). They were just full of sin and at the point in which they felt it was time to “go back to church” they discovered that the Roman Catholic Church (actually that God) had a problem with their previous years of bad behavior and now their existed a hurdle or two to overcome and confession can be pretty humbling.

One thing leads to another and before you know it, these same people are now “former Catholics” and bible scholars, not to mention an authority on the Catholic religion, almost over-night. “It’s a miracle!”

It’s not a miracle, it’s disingenuous and hypocritical. Moreover, arguing now against Catholicism is a way for them to have God on their terms instead of His terms and to make them feel better about themselves. There isn’t’ anything wrong with experiencing guilt. We all sin and we all feel guilt, it is the human condition, welcome to life.

Here is some more reality; Many of these “on-fire” Christians who are bound and determined to save all us Catholics, it turns out, if the truth be known, would probably be Catholic today if it wasn’t for the three or four marriages, which occurred in the interim period, during their “non practicing, Christians years”, before they were on fire…

I also know of many other personal rather than biblical reasons why many are not Catholic, however there are too many to list here. Don’t get me wrong, I love all my Christian Brothers, but like an alcoholic, you have to admit you have a problem before you can seek a cure.

**Why aren’t you Catholic? Tell the truth. **

Theological reasons. Much of the catholic faith doesn’t line up with Scripture and goes far beyond it. The marian doctrines and pracitces are a case in point and one of the most blatant examples.

 

[guanophore]

Some Catholics have drifted away from the Church, others feel they have been booted out; some, like me, don’t feel we have a place in the Church. I find the Church’s teachings testosterone-heavy,

Can you please explain what this means? Also, it seems to me that, if the Church is too “testosterone heavy” wouldn’t that result in even more need of the feminine?

that She is unwilling to take responsibility for the dreadful behaviors of many of Her “servants” (and a cash pay-out does not qualify),

what would taking responsiblity look like to you?

and yet still keeps girls off the altar and lay women in roles of token participation.

Are you saying that you think women should be priests? Priests act in the person of Christ, who chose to be male. He also chose not to include any women in his Apostles. He did not lead the Apostles and Bishops to select women as priests. This is why the Church feels she has no authority to ordain women. It seems like your arguement should be with Jesus.

And isn't it interesting that the Church is referred to in feminine gender?

And very significant. The Church is the Bride of Christ, and the relationship is symbolized by the marriage of the man and the woman.

“…Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.” Eph 5:25-27

Again, it seems your argument is with Christ.

the use of any reliable sort of birth control is condemned. This translates into, "Boys will be boys!" and "Sit up and act like a lady!"  I've been confronted with this sort of double standard for decades and, although I'm fatigued with this sickening game of inequity, I intend to go down swingin'.

Why do you kick against the goads? Perhaps a reading of Theology of the Body will help you understand about birth control. If you believe this “translation” then you do not understand the teachings of the Church. At least learn them before you assume there is a “double standard”, which is not the case.

I find it repugnant that the Catholic Church presents itself as the one true church.  Catholics have neither a singular claim on God nor the only keys to the kindgom.

What makes you think not? What do you think happened to the Keys, after Jesus gave them to Peter?

Catholicism is rigid, patriarchal, and unfulfilling TO ME.  marietta

I see that it is your perception that is rigid, patriarchal, and unfulfilling. None of the accusations you have leveled at the Church are true. However, clearly you are uneducated about who She is,and what She teaches, so it is understandible that you would draw these conclusions. I can relate, because I did the same thing!

 

[guanophore]

Theological reasons. Much of the catholic faith doesn’t line up with Scripture and goes far beyond it. The marian doctrines and pracitces are a case in point and one of the most blatant examples.

The faith may not line up with your perceptions of scripture, ja4. Christainity was never intended to be limited to the scriptures. This is a very modern error. Besides, I thought it was the insistence that leaders be able to have sex that was keeping you out?

 

[mgrfin]

Theological reasons. Much of the catholic faith doesn’t line up with Scripture and goes far beyond it. The marian doctrines and pracitces are a case in point and one of the most blatant examples.

Is that right? Well, the following line up perfectly with Scripture:
The purpose of man’s existence
God and his perfections
The Unity and Trinity of God
Creation, and the angeles
The Fall of Man
Actual Sin
The Incarnation
The Redemption
The Holy Spirit and Grace
The Virtues and Gifts of the Holy Spirit
The Church on earth
Marks and Attributes of the Church
The Communion of Saints and Forgiveness of Sins
The Resurrection and Life everlasting.
The Two great commandments
The First Commandment
Honoring the Saints
Second and Third Commandments
Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Commandments
Seventh, Eight and Nineth Commandments
The Commandments of the church
The Sacraments
Baptism
Confirmation
The Holy Eucharist
Holy Communion
Penance and Confession
Extreme Unction and Holy Orders
Matrimony
Sacramentals
Prayer
The Our Father.

Okay, thats a pretty summary list. What have you got in your list that will stand up with Scripture? If what you have is there because it is 'anti-Catholic", then it is not much of a religion, just because it is against ours. But, go ahead with your list.

peac

 

[marietta]

mgrfin:
You did not ask; you were responding to a question posed by another poster. Fair enough. Mea culpa.

The pettiness and narrowmindedness seeps through in your sniping at VARC with regard to the Eastern Church and your assertion that he will not find peace there. No one knows what he will find there. Seems if that brings him closer to God, then it can’t be a “bad thing”. It’s the tone you use in your fond farewell -so sour.

It is my belief that the keys to the kingdom of Heaven are within the individual, in his or her pursuit of grace through a relationship with God. Maybe VARC is drawn to the Eastern Church because he feels blocked or stifled by the Roman Catholic dogma. I don’t profess to know anything about the Eastern Church, but the Roman Catholicism that my family embraced during my formative years did not allow for questioning, comparison, even momentary frivolity. We were strictly by the book, and I don’t mean the Bible.

For those who believe that there are guarantees in life, Roman Catholicism may be for them. Maybe some of them will see the face of God one day. Maybe they can glance down through the clouds at those of us who struggle with the faith question every day. Maybe then they’ll understand that our questions, and our quests, are the necessary steps that we must take to find a loving God.

marietta

 

[marietta]

guanophore:
Look at your altar. Priests, altar boys, deacons, all male. Look at your bishops. Look at your cardinals. All male. Checked out the Pope lately?

None of these has the authority, the knowledge or the wisdom to counsel me on matters of sexual assault, rape, unmarried pregnancy, miscarriage - the responsibility of those who have been handed this power is to stick to the party line. Or do Catholic women prefer that a man tell them what to do about such matters? Yes, “even more need of the feminine”!

Accountability for the heinous deeds of so many “celibate” priests is decidedly NOT to shuffle the offenders to other parishes or dioceses. Frankness, openness, restructuring of the protected nature of the priesthood, criminal charges against every offender, these are things that resemble “taking responsibility” to me. And, yes, maybe even revisiting the archaic and ridiculous idea of celibacy itself. If you think a priest’s sexuality is going to evaporate when he takes his vows, think again.

On the “argument with Jesus” front, I can only argue with the divine part of Him; the other part would be a man, no? And I don’t subscribe to the idea that the Church has no authority to do something; the Pope has the authority to make changes. He just won’t rock the boat. And from where I sit, half the marriages of men and women are spotted, wrinkled, blemished and unholy.
This is not to say that your relationships are inferior; I’m just reporting what that statistics tell me.

I probably would kick against “the goads” if I knew what they were. Birth control and abstinence are no mystery to me, though I find it difficult to understand why any woman would allow herself to be chastised for wanting a small family, or no family at all, and still desire intimacy with her husband. This is another thread altogether, but one that perhaps infuriates me the most about Catholicism.

It’s interesting that you won’t see any double standard within your religion. How sweet that must be.

marietta

 

[mgrfin]

I don’t think you know the history between VARC and me.

I just thought you were a feminist attacking what you thought to be another male.

By the way, you were attacking me, and you don’t even know me, or anything about me. I respond, male or female regardless when someone goes for my jugular, and my reportedly gonads.

peace

 

[DLC]

I am not Catholic because it teaches a work oriented system of salvation and that is not the Gospel, John 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph 2:1-10. We are saved by faith alone in Christ alone.

 

[mgrfin]

I am not Catholic because it teaches a work oriented system of salvation and that is not the Gospel, John 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph 2:1-10. We are saved by faith alone in Christ alone.

You know, we are not saved by works. Protestants think that is what the Catholic Church teaches. I repeat, we are not saved by works. This was Canon #1 of the Council of Trent on Justification, and stated on January 13, 1547. To say we are saved by works is heretical in the Catholic Church.

But, this has been the constant teaching of the Catholic Church for 1500 years before.

Also, we are not saved by ‘faith only’. This does not appear anywhere in Sacred Scripture. Where it appears in Scripture is St. James 2:24, saying we are not saved by ‘faith only’.

Scripture denies this primary premise of Protestantism.

So, what you understand about salvation is totally false.
We are not saved by works.
We are not saved by ‘faith only’.

Check out Scripture on both.

The Catholic Church has a lot of things to criticize from a human point of view, but on the issue of Justification, we have it hands down. Protestants are shocked when they find out we don’t believe that we are ‘saved by works’, that such was condemned by the Council of Trent.

They are shocked, also, when they can’t find in Scripture where it says we are saved by ‘faith only’; to the contrary, Scripture says we are not saved by ‘faith only’.

peace

 

[guanophore]

guanophore:
Look at your altar. Priests, altar boys, deacons, all male. Look at your bishops. Look at your cardinals. All male. Checked out the Pope lately?

Actually at Mass today there were more girl servers at the altar than boys, and more women eucharistic ministers than men.

However, the clerics minister on behalf of Jesus. He could have come as a female, if He wanted. He could have chosen females, if He wanted Apostles that were women. He didn’t, so the Church does not feel that she has the authority to do so. Why is it a problem to have men in ministry?

None of these has the authority, the knowledge or the wisdom to counsel me on matters of sexual assault, rape, unmarried pregnancy, miscarriage - the responsibility of those who have been handed this power is to stick to the party line.

This is just militant feminism at it’s peak. It is prejudice against males. Does your dentist have to have a mouth full of fillings to be qualified to give you one? Does your surgeon have to have some organs taken out to qualify him to do yours? It is also very wrong to assume that males are not reaped, assaulted, and wounded by miscarriage and abortion. It shows a deep lack of consideration for the male psyche.

What the heck “party line” are you talking about??

Or do Catholic women prefer that a man tell them what to do about such matters? Yes, “even more need of the feminine”!

Sounds like you need to complete a program in Pastoral Counseling and make yourself some office hours at the parish.

Accountability for the heinous deeds of so many “celibate” priests is decidedly NOT to shuffle the offenders to other parishes or dioceses. Frankness, openness, restructuring of the protected nature of the priesthood, criminal charges against every offender, these are things that resemble “taking responsibility” to me.

I agree. What have you done to help these things to happen? What does “restructuring the protected nature of the priesthood” mean?

And, yes, maybe even revisiting the archaic and ridiculous idea of celibacy itself. If you think a priest’s sexuality is going to evaporate when he takes his vows, think again.

Are you saying the the lifestyles of Jesus and Saint Paul are archaic and ridiculuous? Why do you suppose Jesus would choose such a lifestyle?

On the “argument with Jesus” front, I can only argue with the divine part of Him; the other part would be a man, no?

It is my observation that you seem to be quite adept at arguing with males.

And I don’t subscribe to the idea that the Church has no authority to do something; the Pope has the authority to make changes. He just won’t rock the boat.

I did not say that the Church and the Pope have no authority. I said that they did not see themselves given authority by God to ordain women to holy orders.

And from where I sit, half the marriages of men and women are spotted, wrinkled, blemished and unholy.

It looks the same from where I sit. Is that the fault of the Catholic Church also?

This is not to say that your relationships are inferior; I’m just reporting what that statistics tell me.

I probably would kick against “the goads” if I knew what they were. Birth control and abstinence are no mystery to me, though I find it difficult to understand why any woman would allow herself to be chastised for wanting a small family, or no family at all, and still desire intimacy with her husband.

No one is chastized for wanting selfish things. It is the human condition to be selfish. It is part of our basic nature. We are called to a higher way of being that has Jesus at the center, rather than ourselves.

This is another thread altogether, but one that perhaps infuriates me the most about Catholicism.

It seems that it is the most difficult for us to place our most basic human drives at the foot of the cross. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life.

It’s interesting that you won’t see any double standard within your religion. How sweet that must be.

marietta

I distinguish between the Holy Bride of Christ and the fallible people in this world who are members of Her. I don’t really see it as a double standard as much as a layered existence. Jesus is the Head, and is perfect. The Soul of the Church is the HS, who is also perfect. People are not, but we wish to become so.

 

[guanophore]

I am not Catholic because it teaches a work oriented system of salvation and that is not the Gospel, John 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph 2:1-10. We are saved by faith alone in Christ alone.

Can you please explain what “work oriented system of salvation” means, and how that is Catholic?