If you attend the NO mass, what is causing the lack of faith?

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If you attend the NO(novus ordo, post Vatican II mass, or the mass you usually attend, you’d know if you were attending the Tridentine, believe me) mass what do you say is causing the lack of faith?
I compiled some stats. But would like (name removed by moderator)ut since many here seem to think that it makes no difference how the liturgy is done, that it does not impact the faithful on matters of devotion to one’s Catholic faith.
1965 World Population: 3.33B
** Catholic: 654M**
2010 World Population: 6.86B
** Catholic: 1045M**
Should have been: 1347M
Which means that we had a decline in Catholicism of 22.5%. Remember, while numbers went up, we’re talking percents. This is taking out factors such as growth rate, if we factored that in, it would be more dismal.
**
1965 Clergy Population(Worldwide): 419,728
2010 Clergy Population(Worldwide): 406,411**
Based on population relative to faithful, should have been: 670,666
Which means that we had a decline in priests of 39%. Also, over 50% of our priests are over the age of 70. In 10-15 years our numbers will be cut significantly…

These figures, while rough, are worldwide. Nations are always changing, so to see if there is an actual decline, check the stats independent of an individual nation, then we can assume that the problem could be linked to something changing within the Church.
We had Vatican II, which changed the way people worshiped our Lord in the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
So, if it was not Vatican II, why the decline in the Faithful I ask to those who believe that the Novus Ordo mass is the equivalent Tridentine in terms of keeping devotion to the faith?
It is an honest question, I would like to believe that a particular way of celebrating mass would have no bearing on the devotion of Catholics, but I would like your opinion.

Regional Stats:
Pre-Vatican II belief in Real Presence: 75%
1991 belief in Real Presence: 24%

Pre-Vatican II mass attendance: 74%
As of 2001 mass attendance: 17%
They were asked if they attended mass in the past week. This means that the actual percent of people who consistently every week go is smaller as some who inconsistently go happened to go in the past week.

So, opinions?! And please, keep it OFF Topic of the liturgy, I want to hear other influences that could have caused the decline.
 
The 70’s called, they want to participate in this thread.

No seriously, the 70’s and the alleged “sexual revolution”. The backlash from Humanae Vitae was pretty fierce and I think some people objected enough that they simply left the Church.

OF, EF, doesn’t matter. I think the decline would have happened anyway based on how society has “progressed”.
 
Melchior said:
The 70’s called, they want to participate in this thread.

No seriously, the 70’s and the alleged “sexual revolution”. The backlash from Humanae Vitae was pretty fierce and I think some people objected enough that they simply left the Church.

OF, EF, doesn’t matter. I think the decline would have happened anyway based on how society has “progressed”.
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I might have to agree with you on that. I also, in my humble opinion, think it’s going to take another “Dark ages” to realize what we had and lost. Just because somone is part of the Catholic Church does not make them truly Catholic.
 
I initially intended just people who attend the NO mass to answer, but I thought about it and anyone really can throw out answers on this one. I can’t go back and edit but feel free to throw in (name removed by moderator)uts.
 
Modernism and individualism. Me, me me. I want, I feel, I think.
 
Relativism.

That’s all. That’s it. It’s the new religion that’s sweeping across the planet and the single thing that is eroding faith.

It has very little to do with how we worship and everything to do with what we believe and how we express that belief. Either everything God has shown us is true for everyone or nothing is true at all.

Luke-warm religion results in what we’re seeing today.
 
Poor catechesis. When the young aren’t trained in the faith, then how can they be strong? This has been the problem from the beginning. Even with the Israelites.
 
I would have to say the expansion of media and the assault on religion that comes from classrooms, television, music and society in general. I was talking to a friend of mine and telling her all we were doing now that I am homeschooling and she asked if my kids have revolted over “all that religion, Mass, and prayers”? Actually, no, they are reminding me when it is time for prayers or their “kids shows” on EWTN. I wouldn’t say that the style of Mass is the reason. I think it is the culture. We need to change THAT.

As for priests - We need to teach our boys that a religious vocation is acceptable and respectable. I talk to my young boys and tell them that on a regular basis. I also explain that it is a calling, and they need to listen for God’s voice.

I could probably go on, but I will stop there. I think I have rambled. 😊
 
Given the spike in all Catholic stats. immediately prior to 1965, I would like to see a bigger picture, likewise if we only include Catholics in the pews, there has been slight numerical decay in most factors.

anyway, what I wanted to throw out there is a long standing a contributing factor… the feminization of Christianity, particularly the emasculation of the clergy.
 
Many valid reasons have been given in this thread. I suggest you consult the World Christian Encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Christian_Encyclopedia , and World Christian Database worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/ to check the growth of non-Catholic denominations during the same time frame. There has been an explosion in non-Catholic and non-Christian sects, all of which target the Catholic Church for members.

Consider that the Catholic Church has the most stringent moral teachings, during a period in history when world moral behavior is rapidly declining. I would imagine that a major decline occurred in the post-World War II period, as troubling social demographics seem to follow involvement in war. Two other wars quickly ensued after WWII, both greatly affecting the American Church.

To blame it on the NO mass is a cop out. I have never attended a Tridentine mass, and firmly believe that, if one is even moderately well catechized, is seeking a depth of faith, and is aware of what is occurring at the mass, its exact form is not important.

On the grand scale of things, this is the work of the evil one. Consider how so many nations around the world, in a relatively short time, have embraced contraception and are now embracing abortion, and are considering euthanasia and institutionalized homosexuality. None of these practices was ever a major factor in world culture until very recently. With the extremely varied cultures and societies involved, how is one to explain this phenomenon? There is a larger plan at work, and it seeks to draw members away from the Church, and to involve those members (and even non-members) in what is objectively mortal sin. Beside God, who else has always had a desire for souls?

Essentially, the evil one has perpetrated a “perfect storm” against God, with the Church standing at the forefront of the fight. Among all of the other factors, notice that the world is now promoting homosexuality and its teaching to children as a “normal, alternative lifestyle”, but condemns the Catholic Church when homosexual Priests exhibit that exact behavior!

I think that a universal Latin mass would be even more severely attacked by the world, since so few people comprehend Latin. The use of Latin would stand as evidence to the world that the Church was “out of touch”, “irrelevant”, “Patriarchal”, “sexist” or worse. Notice that those criticisms are occurring even with the Novus Ordo!

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
There was a very high number of Priests in the 50’s and 60’s, then it went down hill.

But it wasn’t always high. Here are stats from the Archdiocese of New York:

1910: 1 priest for every 1,313 Catholics
1950: 1 priest for every 600 Catholics
2004: 1 priest for every 1,373 Catholics

So, overall the numbers are not as “declining” as they may seem.

Causes: Bad catechesis, lack of reverence in the liturgy, bad formation in the seminaries in the 40’s forward, sexual revolution, social upheaval, breakdown of the family, relativism.

Not Causes: Vatican II, Roman Missal of 1969.
 
po18guy said:
I think that the Latin mass would be even more severely attacked by the world, since so few comprehend Latin.
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But perhaps Latin fell out of favor in schools because the Latin Mass itself and its theology become under attack?
 
I would say, though, that the sudden and–by historical standards–radical changes to the liturgy did create a shock to the Church’s system which fueled the rebellion that was fomented by the other social factors mentioned above.
 
A LOT of great answers here. Especially;
CDNowak said:
anyway, what I wanted to throw out there is a long standing a contributing factor… the feminization of Christianity, particularly the emasculation of the clergy.
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You know, a buddy of mine is in his last year in the Sem. before the Deaconate (then another year before the Priesthood) and he’s really big on this. You (and he) are dead on about this. We’ve lost what it means to be a man, what it means to be a father (both spiritual and familial).

Although the author is not Catholic, I’m a HUGE fan of the book Wild at Heart and how the author talks about the importance of being a man, and what being a man means when it comes to being a father.
 
ProVobis said:
But perhaps Latin fell out of favor in schools because the Latin Mass itself and its theology become under attack?
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This is not really the case, if you read what was written about Latin education, say, a century ago. Obviously, the decline in Latin for the liturgy has made it even more pointless to learn the language, but the real shift toward the vernacular among the educated classes began in the last half of the 17th and first half of the 18th centuries, and by 1900 Latin (and Greek) education largely remained as rites of passage, because that’s “what you went to school for,” etc. You may find it of great interest to read the preface of this 1889 composition book to get a sense of what the state of things was back then.
 
Melchior said:
A LOT of great answers here. Especially;

You know, a buddy of mine is in his last year in the Sem. before the Deaconate (then another year before the Priesthood) and he’s really big on this. You (and he) are dead on about this. We’ve lost what it means to be a man, what it means to be a father (both spiritual and familial).

Although the author is not Catholic, I’m a HUGE fan of the book Wild at Heart and how the author talks about the importance of being a man, and what being a man means when it comes to being a father.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I have a thread on one aspect of this over in Spirituality, but I’m finding the Catholic answers outside Catholicism (which hasn’t faced the issue directly in recent years).

I glanced through Wild at Heart a while ago, (before this issue hit home) currently I am reading “Church Impotent” by Leon Podles (free off his website). Although not Catholic, he takes a historical view tracing several divides that separated part of manhood from Western Christianity and cites Catholic authors.
 
CDNowak said:
Thanks. I have a thread on one aspect of this over in Spirituality,** but I’m finding the Catholic answers outside Catholicism (which hasn’t faced the issue directly in recent years)**.

I glanced through Wild at Heart a while ago, (before this issue hit home) currently I am reading “Church Impotent” by Leon Podles (free off his website). Although not Catholic, he takes a historical view tracing several divides that separated part of manhood from Western Christianity and cites Catholic authors.
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That sort of underscores the point, doesn’t it? We have issues finding answers within the Church about the crisis of masculinity because…well, we’re in a crisis of masulinity. And by “we” I mean everyone.

I think I’ll take a look at Podles book (hey, it’s free!) and swing by the Spirituality and see the thread there. If it’s half as good as I found Wild at Heart to be then I’ll be thrilled.
 
The growth of Atheism, the sexual revolution, birth control, Me Generation thinking, Relativism in religion, and the infusion of some of this into catechesis (maybe)

IMHO, television is the dominant cultural force modifying the beliefs and opinions of all generations, and it pushes anti-Catholism and a strong neo-paganistic relativism (magic, psychics, etc.). We need to fight back with prayer.
 
Snowbee

Remember, things fell apart quickly after Vatican II, so you can’t blame VII. I used to blame it all on Vatican II too, but I can no longer do that. I will say, however, having lived through those decades before and after VII, that the “spirit of Vatican II” accelerated the decomposition.

I don’t even know if you can blame poor or non-existent instruction in the Faith. We were taught the Faith quite well before VII and things still fell apart.

At the risk of sounding simplistic, I will blame it on a universal “non serviam” of Catholics. You had to have lived through it to know what it was like. As I have said on here before, the Church and the world of 1970 bore no resemblance of the Church and the world of 1960. Everything was turned upside down.
 
po18guy said:
On the grand scale of things, this is the work of the evil one. Consider how so many nations around the world, in a relatively short time, have embraced contraception and are now embracing abortion, and are considering euthanasia and institutionalized homosexuality. None of these practices was ever a major factor in world culture until very recently. With the extremely varied cultures and societies involved, how is one to explain this phenomenon? There is a larger plan at work, and it seeks to draw members away from the Church, and to involve those members (and even non-members) in what is objectively mortal sin. Beside God, who else has always had a desire for souls?
Click to expand...
I absolutely abhor how our government directly funds abortion in other countries, and pushes for gay marriage etc. overseas. They claim it is not for abortion, but “Family Planning,” what a joke of a name, but that’s what they do, they twist the words so that people don’t see their true intent. Recently I believe an African nation drafted a constitution with the help of some of our liberal senators which secured gay marriage. Ugh. Society is degrading…
 
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