If YOU could.change the Catholic Church

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  1. That justification be understood as a gift from God, and completed only in the singular Work of Christ on the Cross, not -in any capacity- by our own merits.
  2. That the Pope admits he rules the church not by divine right, but by human necessity for the sake of good order. And that his service as a pastor to pastors is only by the assent and assistance of the church catholic, deferring humbly to Councils.
Everything else is window dressing.
 
steido01 said:
  1. That justification be understood as a gift from God, and completed only in the singular Work of Christ on the Cross, not -in any capacity- by our own merits.
  2. That the Pope admits he rules the church not by divine right, but by human necessity for the sake of good order. And that his service as a pastor to pastors is only by the assent and assistance of the church catholic, deferring humbly to Councils.
Everything else is window dressing.
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There is truth, half truth and untruth in those.

(1) Justification is a gift but we have to cooperate with it, otherwise it is a gift not received.

(2) Papal office is a divine appointment that Jesus instituted. Yes, it is necessary for good order, in a sense, because the Church is Biblical, which the faithfuls have to turn to. Yes, he is a servant of the servants. He humbly listen to Councils but does not always necessarily abided by them.

Other belief and practices of the Church where applicable, are not just window dressing but necessary and truth.
 
I am aware of the Roman Catholic views on these topics. Obviously, I disagree that we can “cooperate” in our own salvation and that the papal office is divinely instituted apart from the Pastoral Office. The question was “If you could change the Catholic Church…” Well, these are the two things I’d change.
 
AugustTherese said:
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JonNC:
If we have to cooperate, effectively do something, how is it then a gift?
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How does freely accepting and using a gift negate it being a gift?
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Freely receiving and using the gift is cooperating?
Okay.
Is that out of an obligation, a quid pro quo, or out of grateful and joyous thanksgiving?
 
The ABSOLUTE LAST thing the Church needs is me changing anything LOL.

I believe Christ guides the Church; so we should humbly follow his direction. Not try to ‘change’ things so much.
 
AugustTherese said:
So, people can be uncooperative with grace, but not cooperative?
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In a manner of speaking. Our ability to cooperate depends on grace. Our ability to not cooperate is free will.
That said, one must be receptive to grace. If you wish to call that cooperation, okay.
 
JonNC said:
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AugustTherese:
So, people can be uncooperative with grace, but not cooperative?
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In a manner of speaking. Our ability to cooperate depends on grace. Our ability to not cooperate is free will.
That said, one must be receptive to grace. If you wish to call that cooperation, okay.
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Agreed with most of that!
 
I’d have to ask you to reformulate the question. Salvation is something God does to and for me, not something I do.
 
So then you have no say in your salvation? God just says “you are saved”, and voila, you’re saved?
 
Which we can either cooperate with or not.

Someone can be baptized and still be eternally lost.
 
Jon has already explained my soteriological view, but to reiterate:

Christ died for all. That forgave all sins in the world. Every single person, every single sin. God saved the world. He not only declares us righteous, but truly makes believers so through sanctification (or purgation, if you prefer). This will be complete on the last day.

But God also gave man free will. And man can decline that gift. So that’s the “say” we have in our salvation. We can fall away. We can decline the gift.
 
So in other words, we can either cooperate with the plan of salvation, or we can reject it.
 
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